New Shop Oil

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Red91
You also have to consider that most modern monograde 30 oils pass cold flow test for 15W, without using VII's. So really by using a straight 30wt you are using a superior product to any 5W or 10W-30 conventional.

Monogrades have entered the 21st century just like their multigrade counterparts.


Considering AMSOIL's 10w-30/SAE30 is a heavily PAO-based product and manages this feat, I have a hard time entertaining this being some universal rule for all mono's: that they actually pass the CCS and MRV requirements for 15W, given that they are not required to be tested against them and the odds of inexpensive variants having any PAO in them is probably near zero.

Is there a PDS available for this product?

 

[OVERKILL]

If this is the same Heavy Duty SAE 30 as found on this PDS from Amalie:
AMALIE Heavy Duty oil PDS

It has a VI of 100, flash point of 210, and a pour point of -15C.

Given CCS and MRV for the 15W designation are -20C and -25C respectively, and both those temperatures are well below the pour point of this product, I'd wager that it doesn't meet either of them.

 

[53' Stude]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
If is the same Heavy Duty SAE 30 as found on this PDS from Amalie:
AMALIE Heavy Duty oil PDS

It has a VI of 100, flash point of 210, and a pour point of -15C.

Given CCS and MRV for the 15W designation are -20C and -25C respectively, and both those temperatures are well below the pour point of this product, I'd wager that it doesn't meet either of them.



Very good point and thanks for your info

 

[Red91]

That was the only PDS I was able to find through Federated's website, which only directs you to Amalie's website. I don't know that it's the same oil though. The Federated HD 30 is a PCMO, while the Amalie is a dual rated HDEO.

For the sake of my search, here's the link again.

http://www.amalie.com/products/files//FC5EDB06D61B/Heavy Duty Diesel.pdf

 

[Red91]

Why do you get so wound up? You really need to slow your roll.

BTW, putting 30wt in a Chevrolet 2500 is not "stupid" and neither am I. Considering the junk that rolls through the shop, cheap 30wt is vastly better than the alternative of no oil.

 

[Red91]

Concerning your point regarding a customer's car travelling to North Dakota with 30wt in the sump, and by using your method of approach; what happens if I use the "appropriate" 10W-30 conventional specified by Chrysler for their LA's in the nineties in a 90's Dodge pickup then the owner ships the truck to the South Pole?

Am I still in the wrong in your eyes?

 

[mooferz]

I always hear SAE30 guesstimated as 20W-30, as the typical modern Group II SAE 30 oil tends to have a similar viscosity index (~115) and pour points, etc... to actual 20W-30 oils.

To get a monograde to 15w-30, you need higher quality base stocks, like Delo SD, which uses Chevron's Isosyn Group II+ and is probably a synthetic blend. Monograde that meets 10w-30 would probably necessitate full synthetic.

 

[53' Stude]

Originally Posted By: Red91
Why do you get so wound up? You really need to slow your roll.

BTW, putting 30wt in a Chevrolet 2500 is not "stupid" and neither am I. Considering the junk that rolls through the shop, cheap 30wt is vastly better than the alternative of no oil.



You obviously don't even know I work on new vehicles. No one called you stupid so don't ever say I called you stupid.

My dad said he would kill me if I dumped SAE 30 in his 2010 Ram HEMI

this is the 21 century FYI multigrade oils like 5w30 and 10w30 and even 5w20 are used for a reason

 

[Red91]

I wish you would go away. I really, really wish you would. Every time you post in one of my threads you troll it. I don't know what your problem is and I don't care. I just want you to go away. If you and bubbatime would just stop making things so unenjoyable with your incessant need to ruin threads that would be wonderful. Members such as yourself make this place unpleasant. Please....Just go away.

 

[passgas55]

I am thinking of running a straight 30 with the SN rating in my 2007 4.3 chevy truck. What would be worse a 10/30 SL or a 30 SN ?

 

[Graham Piccinini]

According to Amalie - this HD SAE30 has a pour point of -21°C (-6°F). So anything above freezing temperatures (32°F) should be doable. Not ideal, but definitely doable.

 

[Uregina09]

Now you've done. Silver Civic will, without a doubt, report you and/or threaten to leave the forum.

Originally Posted By: Red91
I wish you would go away. I really, really wish you would. Every time you post in one of my threads you troll it. I don't know what your problem is and I don't care. I just want you to go away. If you and bubbatime would just stop making things so unenjoyable with your incessant need to ruin threads that would be wonderful. Members such as yourself make this place unpleasant. Please....Just go away.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Vlad_the_Russian
According to Amalie - this HD SAE30 has a pour point of -21°C (-6°F). So anything above freezing temperatures (32°F) should be doable. Not ideal, but definitely doable.




The question the OP brought up is whether it is that product or another that isn't listed, as the PDS lists a fleet oil (and another SAE 30 further down) so we don't know if those numbers properly reflect this oil or not.

That said, based on the pour points, I'd wager the lighter of the two MIGHT pass for a 20w-30 as another poster posited, but definitely not a 15w-30.

 

[bbhero]

What vehicles would you put this in Red91 ?? I have a mix of 2 qts of Warren Oil SAE 30 grade and 1 qt of Coastal 30 grade in my lady's Camry. I plan on running this until in there until early October.

Depending upon how far north or south you are in Alabama makes a big difference in how long a 30 grade can be used there. South near Mobile it can be rather late until that area sees low temps below 32°F. Up in north Alabama near Huntsville it gets below 32°F a fair amount earlier. It is similar as here in Virginia where it gets below freezing west of the Blue Ridge much earlier than say Virginia Beach. Especially in the mountains west of Staunton west of the Allegheny front. It can get to below 32°F there in mid October rather regularly. In fact during superstorm Sandy October the 29th-30th that area had 20 inches of snow fall on Rte 250.

 

[BrocLuno]

Red91, just carry on. The "kids" that don't understand 30 HD, don't understand ... It's not their fault, they just never looked at it as an alternative to multi-grades. If you get it at a good price, it'll do the job just fine.

Cars, trucks and tractors started and ran on SAE 30 for 75 years before multi's became the norm. They started in snow storms and all sorts of conditions on 6 volt batteries ...

Rule 1 - some oil is better than no oil - you got that covered

Rule 2 - better oil is better. OK, if any of the vehicles you work on say they can use an xW-30, that means they want a 30 at op temp - you got that covered. It's much better than some super discount 5W-30 that is actually a 5 grade with a ton of VII's

Rule 3 - loose engines like thicker oil. OK, this will be nice and thick at start-up, so they should be quiet, and that'll mean happier customers

If the owners or operators of these vehicles care at all about the longevity of their mounts, see if they'll spring for a can of BG 109 with the change ... If they have been abusing them and running low on oil, they could have cheap oil varnish baked on here and there. A can of BG 109 will free the rings and any varnished lifter bores so they may run better until next change

 

[userfriendly]

One of my favorite SAE 30s

density .873
flash 259C (498F)
Pour pt. -27C
channel pt. -35C
CCS 10,430 @ -20C
Bdrl. pump 9890 @ -20C
P 1000
Zn 1100
Sulfur %wt. .400
Ca %wt. .300
VI 110
40C 88.5
100C 11.0
HTHS >3.5

 

[Red91]

I can't argue with that. It does appear that my oil, if it's similar in composition to Amalie's fleet oil, would be more of a 20W-30. It's a first however, as PDS documents I've seen for Delo SAE 30 and several other PCMO 30's were showing lower pour points(Pennzoil?) which seemed more indicative of a 15W-30 like composition.

 

[Red91]

bbhero: a fair amount of what I actually change oil in at the shop is as follows:
-Small block Chevys of all vintages
-Small block Fords of all vintages
-Ford mod engines
-Ford vulcans(3.0 pushrod V6)
-Chrysler LA's
-Buick 3800's
-Chevy 3100/3400's
-Ford 4.0's (pushrod and SOHC)
-a slew of classic iron pushrod American V8's


On the offhand chance I service something not included on this list or a much newer vehicle, I have semi synthetic and full synthetic dexos 0W-20 5W-20 and 5W-30 oils in stock.

Dad doesn't operate an oil change shop. He's been slowly trying to get out of late model general repair and into partail restorations/streetrods for the last decade.

Broc: thanks to members such as yourself, Shannow, and userfriendly I've learned so much about the benefits of monograde oils. This is why for my personal vehicle I choose to run 30wt. The negatives of monograde oils are immensely offset by the benefits.

I'll also say this: to anyone losing it over the use of SAE 30 vs 5W-30 or 10W-30, keep in mind using a multigrade isn't going to make their tires less bald, their brakes any less in the metal, or their windshields any less cracked. We deal with many customers who are cheap. Some of them can barely afford auto repair, but most of them are just cheapskates. Putting 30wt in their twenty year old beat up oil burning jalopy is more of a favor really.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: userfriendly
One of my favorite SAE 30s

density .873
flash 259C (498F)
Pour pt. -27C
channel pt. -35C
CCS 10,430 @ -20C
Bdrl. pump 9890 @ -20C
P 1000
Zn 1100
Sulfur %wt. .400
Ca %wt. .300
VI 110
40C 88.5
100C 11.0
HTHS >3.5



One of mine

Kinematic Viscosity @ 100°C, cSt (ASTM D-445). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 11.3
Kinematic Viscosity @ 40°C, cSt (ASTM D-445). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 73.5
Viscosity Index (ASTM D-2270). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 146
Cold Crank Simulator Apparent Viscosity @ -25°C, cP (ASTM D-5293). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5360
Pour Point °C (°F) (ASTM D-97). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . -37 (-35)
Flash Point °C (°F) (ASTM D-92) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 226 (439)
Fire Point °C (°F) (ASTM D-92) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 250 (482)
NOACK Volatility, % weight loss (g/100g) (ASTM D-5800). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4.2
High-Temperature/High-Shear Viscosity @150°C, 1.4 x 106 s-1, cP (ASTM D-5481). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3.6

 

[Garak]

On the other hand, it's extremely interesting to have a shop out there that gives customers this wide range of choice. Personally, I don't have a lot of use for a monograde, and even if I did, it really isn't practical much out of four months of the year here.

But, if I had a summer only vehicle, an old jalopy, as mentioned, and I relied on a shop to do the work and I asked for an SAE 30, I'd have a great deal of difficulty finding a shop to do that here. So, it's nice to have choice. If one can stock the inventory and moves enough product, great.

Of course, most customers are well served by following OEM guidelines. However, we've been brainwashed by OEMs to the point we panic that a Honda or Toyota will blow up if anything thicker than a 0w-20 is used in a Phoenix summer, or, conversely, that if a thinner oil even approaches an Audi oil fill cap, the engine will sludge up in protest.