I have a new 2012 Ram and it has 18000 kilometers on it. is there a point where I should keep the factory oil type in for break in and switch to synthetic ?? or switch now I am looking at AMSoil synthetic any weights or recommendations?
New 2012 cummins Oil Choice
- Thread starter Shawn1
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Is your warranty important? Are you only looking at AmSoil for synthetic?
Originally Posted By: Shawn1
I have a new 2012 Ram and it has 18000 kilometers on it. is there a point where I should keep the factory oil type in for break in and switch to synthetic ?? or switch now I am looking at AMSoil synthetic any weights or recommendations?
You can go another oil change or two with conventional and then switch to Amsoil synthetic. Your manual says 15W-40 or 5W-40, CJ-4 correct?
In Canada probably you should go with 5W-40.
Amsoil DEO 5W-40
Or for 15W-40:
Amsoil OED 15W-40
Both CJ-4 oils.
I have a new 2012 Ram and it has 18000 kilometers on it. is there a point where I should keep the factory oil type in for break in and switch to synthetic ?? or switch now I am looking at AMSoil synthetic any weights or recommendations?
You can go another oil change or two with conventional and then switch to Amsoil synthetic. Your manual says 15W-40 or 5W-40, CJ-4 correct?
In Canada probably you should go with 5W-40.
Amsoil DEO 5W-40
Or for 15W-40:
Amsoil OED 15W-40
Both CJ-4 oils.
Rotella 15W40 T6.
The cheapest 15w40 you can find will get that engine to 300k and over easily,we had one with 500,000 abused miles.
Mobil TDT is a good choice also.
Mobil TDT is a good choice also.
Originally Posted By: Donald
Rotella 15W40 T6.
5W40
Rotella 15W40 T6.
5W40
dnewton3
Staff member
Welcome to the site!
First - please be ready to take this in:
THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A "BEST" OIL. There are many good ones, but there is no "best" one-size-fits-all lube, despite what marketing hype and rhetoric would suggest. There are always going to be some that are "better" for a particular set of circumstances, and those should be the ones you seek.
Next, there is some information you need to digest so that you can understand some of the choices you are about to make.
Synthetics are excellent products, but like anything else, there at always beneifts and limitations.
You really need to consider several things before you commit to any product, as one of but many decisions in an overall maintenance program.
- OCI duration (Oil change interval)
- compliance with warranty provisions
- operating environment
- operational conditions
- lube choice availability
- lube choice costs
- filter selection (complimentary to the lube choice, depending upon OCI)
etc, etc.
Probably the greatest advantage to synthetics is going to be greatly extended OCI durations. However, if you are unable or unwilling to commit to such, then there is very little chance you'd ever make the choice pay for itself. And, while synthetics do offer great low-temp performance for starting, today's direct-injection common-rail diesels don't make that as much of a factor as the old IDI motors with no intake-heater. They do "flow" better at uber-cold temps, but that rarely manifests into actual differences in wear reduction; the evidnece just does not support such a conclusion.
Spend some time reading in the diesel UOA section, and review many of the Cummins units. They perform very well, pretty much regardless of what oil is used (brand/grade/base stock). There is an excellent example of a guy who runs VPB (Valvoline Premium Blue) up to 20k miles, and gets great results. That is not in any way an assurance that you'll get the same results, but it is an indication that synthetics are not required for good wear protection. Excellent wear protection is not an attribute exclusive to synthetics.
In short, to make any product pay for itself, it needs to meet performance standards, and then provide that protection over a duration that can fiscally justify its use. When synthetics cost 2x-3x more money than a conventional oil, they have to be run out two or three times futher, just to "break even" on the cost, relative to the protection they provide.
If you do choose to run synthetics, there are many good choices. If you choose Amsoil, please consider using one of our site sponsors; support those who support us.
First - please be ready to take this in:
THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A "BEST" OIL. There are many good ones, but there is no "best" one-size-fits-all lube, despite what marketing hype and rhetoric would suggest. There are always going to be some that are "better" for a particular set of circumstances, and those should be the ones you seek.
Next, there is some information you need to digest so that you can understand some of the choices you are about to make.
Synthetics are excellent products, but like anything else, there at always beneifts and limitations.
You really need to consider several things before you commit to any product, as one of but many decisions in an overall maintenance program.
- OCI duration (Oil change interval)
- compliance with warranty provisions
- operating environment
- operational conditions
- lube choice availability
- lube choice costs
- filter selection (complimentary to the lube choice, depending upon OCI)
etc, etc.
Probably the greatest advantage to synthetics is going to be greatly extended OCI durations. However, if you are unable or unwilling to commit to such, then there is very little chance you'd ever make the choice pay for itself. And, while synthetics do offer great low-temp performance for starting, today's direct-injection common-rail diesels don't make that as much of a factor as the old IDI motors with no intake-heater. They do "flow" better at uber-cold temps, but that rarely manifests into actual differences in wear reduction; the evidnece just does not support such a conclusion.
Spend some time reading in the diesel UOA section, and review many of the Cummins units. They perform very well, pretty much regardless of what oil is used (brand/grade/base stock). There is an excellent example of a guy who runs VPB (Valvoline Premium Blue) up to 20k miles, and gets great results. That is not in any way an assurance that you'll get the same results, but it is an indication that synthetics are not required for good wear protection. Excellent wear protection is not an attribute exclusive to synthetics.
In short, to make any product pay for itself, it needs to meet performance standards, and then provide that protection over a duration that can fiscally justify its use. When synthetics cost 2x-3x more money than a conventional oil, they have to be run out two or three times futher, just to "break even" on the cost, relative to the protection they provide.
If you do choose to run synthetics, there are many good choices. If you choose Amsoil, please consider using one of our site sponsors; support those who support us.
If you don't have access to electricity to plug in an oil pan or block heater, a CJ-4 0W40 such as Rotella's new syn or (as I've heard) other co-op brands available in CA would be a good choice in winter. I've only had my '06 5.9 in extreme conditions once, -15F in the Chicago blizzard of Feb. '11, and I had the block heater plugged in the whole time, running TDT 5W40, no trouble starting.
Originally Posted By: widman
If that has the engine I think it does, the Donaldson Synthetic oil filter P177349 (ELF7349) is a great and cheap upgrade. 99% efficient at 15 um.
I just started stocking them for several customers.
I have developed a fondness for these also. Using ELF3998 on my Detroit Series 60.
If that has the engine I think it does, the Donaldson Synthetic oil filter P177349 (ELF7349) is a great and cheap upgrade. 99% efficient at 15 um.
I just started stocking them for several customers.
I have developed a fondness for these also. Using ELF3998 on my Detroit Series 60.
Originally Posted By: widman
If that has the engine I think it does, the Donaldson Synthetic oil filter P177349 (ELF7349) is a great and cheap upgrade. 99% efficient at 15 um.
I just started stocking them for several customers.
Great oil filter choice, I buy 3 at a time. No issues with them and Delvac 1300 15w-40.
If that has the engine I think it does, the Donaldson Synthetic oil filter P177349 (ELF7349) is a great and cheap upgrade. 99% efficient at 15 um.
I just started stocking them for several customers.
Great oil filter choice, I buy 3 at a time. No issues with them and Delvac 1300 15w-40.
Originally Posted By: Shawn1
I have a new 2012 Ram and it has 18000 kilometers on it. is there a point where I should keep the factory oil type in for break in and switch to synthetic ?? or switch now I am looking at AMSoil synthetic any weights or recommendations?
Follow the OEM first oil change kilometer change. Switch to Amsoil 5w40 and your choice of oil filter. Run the OEM change interval and perform a few UOA's and see where your at in regards to oil condition. After a few OCI's and UOA's if the oil looks to be in great shape....you might after warranty push up the OCI.
I have a new 2012 Ram and it has 18000 kilometers on it. is there a point where I should keep the factory oil type in for break in and switch to synthetic ?? or switch now I am looking at AMSoil synthetic any weights or recommendations?
Follow the OEM first oil change kilometer change. Switch to Amsoil 5w40 and your choice of oil filter. Run the OEM change interval and perform a few UOA's and see where your at in regards to oil condition. After a few OCI's and UOA's if the oil looks to be in great shape....you might after warranty push up the OCI.
dnewton3
Staff member
Originally Posted By: LargeCarManX2
Originally Posted By: Shawn1
I have a new 2012 Ram and it has 18000 kilometers on it. is there a point where I should keep the factory oil type in for break in and switch to synthetic ?? or switch now I am looking at AMSoil synthetic any weights or recommendations?
Follow the OEM first oil change kilometer change. Switch to Amsoil 5w40 and your choice of oil filter. Run the OEM change interval and perform a few UOA's and see where your at in regards to oil condition. After a few OCI's and UOA's if the oil looks to be in great shape....you might after warranty push up the OCI.
Let me understand ...
His new 2012 rig likely has a 100k mile (equiv 161k-km) warranty, and you are suggesting using Amsoil for OEM OCIs, and pushing out the OCI only after the warranty ends?
I find that to be extremely wasteful.
Originally Posted By: Shawn1
I have a new 2012 Ram and it has 18000 kilometers on it. is there a point where I should keep the factory oil type in for break in and switch to synthetic ?? or switch now I am looking at AMSoil synthetic any weights or recommendations?
Follow the OEM first oil change kilometer change. Switch to Amsoil 5w40 and your choice of oil filter. Run the OEM change interval and perform a few UOA's and see where your at in regards to oil condition. After a few OCI's and UOA's if the oil looks to be in great shape....you might after warranty push up the OCI.
Let me understand ...
His new 2012 rig likely has a 100k mile (equiv 161k-km) warranty, and you are suggesting using Amsoil for OEM OCIs, and pushing out the OCI only after the warranty ends?
I find that to be extremely wasteful.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
Originally Posted By: LargeCarManX2
Originally Posted By: Shawn1
I have a new 2012 Ram and it has 18000 kilometers on it. is there a point where I should keep the factory oil type in for break in and switch to synthetic ?? or switch now I am looking at AMSoil synthetic any weights or recommendations?
Follow the OEM first oil change kilometer change. Switch to Amsoil 5w40 and your choice of oil filter. Run the OEM change interval and perform a few UOA's and see where your at in regards to oil condition. After a few OCI's and UOA's if the oil looks to be in great shape....you might after warranty push up the OCI.
Let me understand ...
His new 2012 rig likely has a 100k mile (equiv 161k-km) warranty, and you are suggesting using Amsoil for OEM OCIs, and pushing out the OCI only after the warranty ends?
I find that to be extremely wasteful.
Don't worry...it's the twenty first century!
Oil Change Indicator System
Your vehicle is equipped with an engine oil change indicator system. This system will alert you when it is time to change your engine oil by displaying the words “Oil Change Required” on your Electronic Vehicle Infor- mation Center (EVIC). The engine oil change indicator system is duty cycle based, which means the engine oil change interval may fluctuate depending on your per- sonal driving style. Driving styles such as frequent stop and go type driving can increase the frequency of the engine oil change. This is the result of more frequent regeneration of the exhaust aftertreatment system, which can decrease the life of the engine oil. Failure to change the engine oil per the maintenance schedule can result in internal engine damage.
For information on resetting the Oil Change Indicator message, refer to “Oil Change Required – If Equipped,”
under “System Status (EVIC Displays)” in the “Electronic Vehicle Information Center (EVIC)” Section of this manual.
Originally Posted By: LargeCarManX2
Originally Posted By: Shawn1
I have a new 2012 Ram and it has 18000 kilometers on it. is there a point where I should keep the factory oil type in for break in and switch to synthetic ?? or switch now I am looking at AMSoil synthetic any weights or recommendations?
Follow the OEM first oil change kilometer change. Switch to Amsoil 5w40 and your choice of oil filter. Run the OEM change interval and perform a few UOA's and see where your at in regards to oil condition. After a few OCI's and UOA's if the oil looks to be in great shape....you might after warranty push up the OCI.
Let me understand ...
His new 2012 rig likely has a 100k mile (equiv 161k-km) warranty, and you are suggesting using Amsoil for OEM OCIs, and pushing out the OCI only after the warranty ends?
I find that to be extremely wasteful.
Don't worry...it's the twenty first century!
Oil Change Indicator System
Your vehicle is equipped with an engine oil change indicator system. This system will alert you when it is time to change your engine oil by displaying the words “Oil Change Required” on your Electronic Vehicle Infor- mation Center (EVIC). The engine oil change indicator system is duty cycle based, which means the engine oil change interval may fluctuate depending on your per- sonal driving style. Driving styles such as frequent stop and go type driving can increase the frequency of the engine oil change. This is the result of more frequent regeneration of the exhaust aftertreatment system, which can decrease the life of the engine oil. Failure to change the engine oil per the maintenance schedule can result in internal engine damage.
For information on resetting the Oil Change Indicator message, refer to “Oil Change Required – If Equipped,”
under “System Status (EVIC Displays)” in the “Electronic Vehicle Information Center (EVIC)” Section of this manual.
dnewton3
Staff member
Yes - I know what OLM/IOLM is.
My comment is that I don't understand the logic of spending a lot of money on Amsoil if one is going to follow the OEM OCI (even if by using the OLM). The OLM is NOT predicated on using synthetic fluids. Synthetics are much more capable (in most circumstances) than conventional lubes in OCI extension. Amsoil is a particularly well respected high-quality syn. So why OCI with the OLM with a syn? You said
Quote:
"....you might after warranty push up the OCI."
If you suggest to wait until "after warranty" to push out the OCI, then why spend all that money during the first 161k km on Amsoil?
That is what I meant by "wasteful".
My comment is that I don't understand the logic of spending a lot of money on Amsoil if one is going to follow the OEM OCI (even if by using the OLM). The OLM is NOT predicated on using synthetic fluids. Synthetics are much more capable (in most circumstances) than conventional lubes in OCI extension. Amsoil is a particularly well respected high-quality syn. So why OCI with the OLM with a syn? You said
Quote:
"....you might after warranty push up the OCI."
If you suggest to wait until "after warranty" to push out the OCI, then why spend all that money during the first 161k km on Amsoil?
That is what I meant by "wasteful".
For where you (and I) live, I would run either Shell 5w40 or Co-op D-Mo Gold SL 0w40. Both are synthetic, and much cheaper than Amsoil.
For the oil change interval, I would follow the OLM system in the truck for warranty reasons. Lastly, check your owners manual. Mine (Cummins) suggests synthetic oil be used in cold weather - like we have here in Western Canada.
The Co-op 0w40 is a Group IV true synthetic. Not sure about the Shell 5w40, it might be a highly refined group III that is able to be labelled as "synthetic" oil.
For the oil change interval, I would follow the OLM system in the truck for warranty reasons. Lastly, check your owners manual. Mine (Cummins) suggests synthetic oil be used in cold weather - like we have here in Western Canada.
The Co-op 0w40 is a Group IV true synthetic. Not sure about the Shell 5w40, it might be a highly refined group III that is able to be labelled as "synthetic" oil.
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Originally Posted By: ib516
For where you (and I) live, I would run either Shell 5w40 or Co-op D-Mo Gold SL 0w40. Both are synthetic, and much cheaper than Amsoil.
For the oil change interval, I would follow the OLM system in the truck for warranty reasons. Lastly, check your owners manual. Mine (Cummins) suggests synthetic oil be used in cold weather - like we have here in Western Canada.
The Co-op 0w40 is a Group IV true synthetic. Not sure about the Shell 5w40, it might be a highly refined group III that is able to be labelled as "synthetic" oil.
I've come to discover even if D-MO Gold SL is a PAO oil, on paper its not all that fantastic. The TBN and certain additives are pretty average and the viscosity index is rather pitiful for what it is.
Personally, I'd be wondering if this truck is papered to run 10W-30 from the factory. It could be an idea to try it, Mobil Delvac Elite 222 0W-30 for instance is a pretty solid diesel engine oil too.
But that is just me on the 30 weights, if you want a 40 weight Rotella 5W-40 is always a good bet. You also have a choice in Rotella T5 0W-40. It claims to be a synthetic blend but its actually a full synthetic. Would probably be perfect for all conditions, its in a silver bottle.
Of course, Mobil probably offers a 0W-40, as does Petro-Canada in a variety of flavors, but I haven't seen, used, or researched any of those oils before.
For where you (and I) live, I would run either Shell 5w40 or Co-op D-Mo Gold SL 0w40. Both are synthetic, and much cheaper than Amsoil.
For the oil change interval, I would follow the OLM system in the truck for warranty reasons. Lastly, check your owners manual. Mine (Cummins) suggests synthetic oil be used in cold weather - like we have here in Western Canada.
The Co-op 0w40 is a Group IV true synthetic. Not sure about the Shell 5w40, it might be a highly refined group III that is able to be labelled as "synthetic" oil.
I've come to discover even if D-MO Gold SL is a PAO oil, on paper its not all that fantastic. The TBN and certain additives are pretty average and the viscosity index is rather pitiful for what it is.
Personally, I'd be wondering if this truck is papered to run 10W-30 from the factory. It could be an idea to try it, Mobil Delvac Elite 222 0W-30 for instance is a pretty solid diesel engine oil too.
But that is just me on the 30 weights, if you want a 40 weight Rotella 5W-40 is always a good bet. You also have a choice in Rotella T5 0W-40. It claims to be a synthetic blend but its actually a full synthetic. Would probably be perfect for all conditions, its in a silver bottle.
Of course, Mobil probably offers a 0W-40, as does Petro-Canada in a variety of flavors, but I haven't seen, used, or researched any of those oils before.
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Originally Posted By: dnewton3
Yes - I know what OLM/IOLM is.
My comment is that I don't understand the logic of spending a lot of money on Amsoil if one is going to follow the OEM OCI (even if by using the OLM). The OLM is NOT predicated on using synthetic fluids. Synthetics are much more capable (in most circumstances) than conventional lubes in OCI extension. Amsoil is a particularly well respected high-quality syn. So why OCI with the OLM with a syn? You said
Quote:
"....you might after warranty push up the OCI."
If you suggest to wait until "after warranty" to push out the OCI, then why spend all that money during the first 161k km on Amsoil?
That is what I meant by "wasteful".
I would not call $ 7.80 a quart for 5w40 or $5.15 a quart for Oe 15w40 wasteful? He wants to run Amsoil.
Shell T-6 5w40 is $29.00 a gallon and Amsoil 5w40 about $31.00. Running a superior oil that suspends soot, starts the engine faster, holds up better with fuel dilution etc... is cost effective.
Yes - I know what OLM/IOLM is.
My comment is that I don't understand the logic of spending a lot of money on Amsoil if one is going to follow the OEM OCI (even if by using the OLM). The OLM is NOT predicated on using synthetic fluids. Synthetics are much more capable (in most circumstances) than conventional lubes in OCI extension. Amsoil is a particularly well respected high-quality syn. So why OCI with the OLM with a syn? You said
Quote:
"....you might after warranty push up the OCI."
If you suggest to wait until "after warranty" to push out the OCI, then why spend all that money during the first 161k km on Amsoil?
That is what I meant by "wasteful".
I would not call $ 7.80 a quart for 5w40 or $5.15 a quart for Oe 15w40 wasteful? He wants to run Amsoil.
Shell T-6 5w40 is $29.00 a gallon and Amsoil 5w40 about $31.00. Running a superior oil that suspends soot, starts the engine faster, holds up better with fuel dilution etc... is cost effective.
dnewton3
Staff member
Quote:
Running a superior oil that suspends soot, starts the engine faster, holds up better with fuel dilution etc... is cost effective.
Are you suggesting that only a synthetic holds soot in suspension?
Are you suggesting that there is measurable differences in starting in a new, common-rail injected, intake-heater equipped diesel engine, where the syn will "start the engine faster" than a dino?
Are you suggesting that the fuel dilution is so great that a dino would never be able to tolerate even one-tenth of one-percent of dilution?
Your position is perposterous. You need to read my article about statistical normalcy; in there I show an excellent example of two Dmax trucks and compare/contrast the situations. I would challenge you to show me how the synthetic (with bypass) did any "better" than the dino oil with a typical filter, over a normal OCI.
ROI is judged upon the performance over some measurable criteria of exposure. It is not judged by a VOA or PDS.
I would ask for your proof of real world analysis and statistics that shows a synthetic would be "hold up better" to soot, fuel dilution, etc in a normal OCI. Please provide clear evidence. And be aware that I have thousands of UOAs in macro analayis, and several micro analysis examples, to substantiate my claim.
If two or more products provide the same performance in real world use, anything but the least expensive option is a waste. Paying 2x more money for a syn when a dino would provide the same protection against wear, is a waste. You have suggested that using syn for an OEM OCI is "better" in this example? Prove it, please. Show me incontravertable evidence that supports your claim. Read my article; I have my evidence out there for all to see.
Running a superior oil that suspends soot, starts the engine faster, holds up better with fuel dilution etc... is cost effective.
Are you suggesting that only a synthetic holds soot in suspension?
Are you suggesting that there is measurable differences in starting in a new, common-rail injected, intake-heater equipped diesel engine, where the syn will "start the engine faster" than a dino?
Are you suggesting that the fuel dilution is so great that a dino would never be able to tolerate even one-tenth of one-percent of dilution?
Your position is perposterous. You need to read my article about statistical normalcy; in there I show an excellent example of two Dmax trucks and compare/contrast the situations. I would challenge you to show me how the synthetic (with bypass) did any "better" than the dino oil with a typical filter, over a normal OCI.
ROI is judged upon the performance over some measurable criteria of exposure. It is not judged by a VOA or PDS.
I would ask for your proof of real world analysis and statistics that shows a synthetic would be "hold up better" to soot, fuel dilution, etc in a normal OCI. Please provide clear evidence. And be aware that I have thousands of UOAs in macro analayis, and several micro analysis examples, to substantiate my claim.
If two or more products provide the same performance in real world use, anything but the least expensive option is a waste. Paying 2x more money for a syn when a dino would provide the same protection against wear, is a waste. You have suggested that using syn for an OEM OCI is "better" in this example? Prove it, please. Show me incontravertable evidence that supports your claim. Read my article; I have my evidence out there for all to see.
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