New 18’ YZF-R1 and Yamalube 15w-50

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First post here. Got a brand new Yamaha R1 w/about 300 miles on it currently. Long story short, I suspected coolant mixing in the oil and decided to make sure after taking it to the dealer. This UOA probably won't be that useful to anyone w/such little miles but I'm wondering if this is a good oil to use? Thinking about switching to Rotella T6 after as I can get a great deal on some. Thanks Oil: Yamalube Full Syn 15w-50 w/ester Oil Use Interval: 226 miles [Linked Image]
 
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i'm really confused it says makeup oil added 4.3qt is that the original or did you really add in 4.3quarts of oil in these 226miles? if its really zero, its a very good report. if its really 4.3qts the report is worthless and you need to rev it more. blast to almost redline and then decel (motor only) back down no brakes
 
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Originally Posted by KGMtech
What made you suspect coolant mixing with oil?
I dumped the oil at 44 miles and the oil looked somewhat milky. A friend of mine who is a Car Mechanic took a look and said it's coolant contamination. There is more to it than that but that's the short version. Bike is running fine..always has just wanted the peace of mind.
 
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Originally Posted by sunruh
i'm really confused it says makeup oil added 4.3qt is that the original or did you really add in 4.3quarts of oil in these 226miles? if its really zero, its a very good report. if its really 4.3qts the report is worthless and you need to rev it more. blast to almost redline and then decel (motor only) back down no brakes
Ignore the make up oil. This was my first oil analysis so I'm sure I misunderstood that part. This oil is not the original oil, I did the 1st oil change at around 44 miles. Only reason for this analysis was to confirm there was no coolant contamination in the oil. Anyone see any concerns with the low Zinc and Phosphorus levels in this oil? I'm no oil expert but I've read on here that can be a sign of a "real" synthetic oil?
 
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Originally Posted by soko
Anyone see any concerns with the low Zinc and Phosphorus levels in this oil? I'm no oil expert but I've read on here that can be a sign of a "real" synthetic oil?
There is nothing in that report that would indicate base stock composition.
 
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719
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Colorado, USA
That is just poor zinc and phosphorus. And calcium as a detergent is extremely low considering there's no magnesium. However that's a huge dose of a boron, I think boron is a very good extreme pressure additive, that may well take the place of zinc and even be more efficient per PPM.
 
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Originally Posted by Bonz
That is just poor zinc and phosphorus. And calcium as a detergent is extremely low considering there's no magnesium. However that's a huge dose of a boron, I think boron is a very good extreme pressure additive, that may well take the place of zinc and even be more efficient per PPM.
Thank you for your analysis, exactly the type of info I was looking for.
 
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Colorado, USA
You may just want to run it and see what you get on a longer oil change interval. I have a buddy who ran that in his FJR 1300, did fine for him although he didn't do an analysis. He's running Mobil 1 10w 40 4T now. Seems to be the thing amongst FJR guys, so he's following suit. I really like M1 4T in my ZRX 1200.
 
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I would stick with a 50, why go down to a 40? Maybe if you lived way up north but Atlanta isnt the coldest place in the country (more so in the summer) and if Yamaha allows a 50 I am sure you will be much better off, including shifting on those hot summer days when your oil is nice and hot. Living in the Southeast I always chose to go to a 50 if the manual stated I could. Just works better, shifting included. Its all good, we all (including me) tend to over think oil, just in this case, your thinking about running an oil weight that is good for someone way up north and getting some thoughts from people who live up there but you live in one of the most southern areas of the USA with temperatures much higher. Just my thoughts, no big deal, but many people wont understand what summertime "hot" is unless they lived in our areas. Either way, your bike engine will outlast the bike no matter what you use. If you want something more robust (not that it matters) and want to stay with a 15w50. There is Mystic JT 8 15/50 semi syn diesel oil or Mobile 1 15/50 oil or any number of motorcycle specific oils. Ps, no offense but I would stay away from advice from your friend, there was no reason to change out the oil. Once the engine was run at full operating temperature for a while the moisture in the engine oil would have evaporated.
 
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Originally Posted by soko
Anyone see any concerns with the low Zinc and Phosphorus levels in this oil? I'm no oil expert but I've read on here that can be a sign of a "real" synthetic oil?
To make a informed decision like an expert you have to understand that additives like Zinc and Phosphorous are used/sacrificed in very small quantities over time, so the total amount present in your oil does NOT change how much wear protection the oil provides, as long as you don't run out of additives "Lab Testing" and "Wear Testing" analysis proves/confirms that more additives provides LONGER wear protection, NOT MORE wear protection... Just follow the oil change interval tested and approved by Yamaha's engineers and your prized R1 should meet and exceed your mileage expectations...
 
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Originally Posted by alarmguy
I would stick with a 50, why go down to a 40?
I know the answer... first of all Yamaha's engineers approve grades 15w50 or 10w40 full synthetic to reach our mileage expectations but only a full synthetic 40 grade will lower our operating temp because it flows with less drag than a 50 grade... oil drag is visibly real... The Importance of Viscosity? Quote Blackstone Labs The viscosity, or thickness of the oil, is not nearly as important as many people think. Oil retains its nature no matter what thickness it is.Think about this: automakers are continually recommending lighter multi-grade oil in new engines. The reason is increased efficiency. It takes power to pump oil through an engine, and the lighter the oil, the less power required to pump it. The oil's ability to act like a solid and protect parts is not related to its thickness. If that doesn't sound quite right, consider this: The gears in a heavy duty Allison automatic transmission are doing the same work as the same machine equipped with an Eaton manual transmission. Due to the hydraulics of the automatic, it runs on a 10W automatic transmission oil.But the manual transmission uses a very thick (sometimes up to 90W)gear lube oil. The gears of both types of transmissions will have a similar life span. We don't find any significant differences in wear, regardless of oil thickness. [Linked Image]
 
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719
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Colorado, USA
Originally Posted by BusyLittleShop
Originally Posted by soko
Anyone see any concerns with the low Zinc and Phosphorus levels in this oil? I'm no oil expert but I've read on here that can be a sign of a "real" synthetic oil?
To make a informed decision like an expert you have to understand that additives like Zinc and Phosphorous are used/sacrificed in very small quantities over time, so the total amount present in your oil does NOT change how much wear protection the oil provides, as long as you don't run out of additives "Lab Testing" and "Wear Testing" analysis proves/confirms that more additives provides LONGER wear protection, NOT MORE wear protection... Just follow the oil change interval tested and approved by Yamaha's engineers and your prized R1 should meet and exceed your mileage expectations...
I need help understanding, as an example, how 600 PPM zinc will provide the exact same wear protection as 1800 PPM zinc in let's say the first 100 miles of use since it's probably safe to say it will not have been sacrificed. A higher concentration means more of it on any given area of contact versus a lesser concentration. Because zinc is a last line of defense when everything else has failed, I don't believe we would see zinc depleted in a motor oil if that engine is still mechanically able to function and is running. I've seen oil analysis with a TBN showing it's used up and the zinc was nominally where it was rated to be in the same oil when new. That's seems to be saying the flat tappet engine valve train that gets chewed up has nothing to do with the oil it was provided. If everything else was equal except the concentration of zinc, based on what you are saying, it should survive the initial startup and the first few miles of running and continue happily down the road with the explicit condition that the zinc was not depleted within that period of time.
 
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Originally Posted by Bonz
I need help understanding, as an example, how 600 PPM zinc will provide the exact same wear protection as 1800 PPM zinc in let's say the first 100 miles of use since it's probably safe to say it will not have been sacrificed. that period of time.
We all could use help understanding Zinc... because zinc is not even a lubricant until heat and load are applied. Zinc is only used when there is actual metal to metal contact in the engine. At that point zinc must react with the heat and load to create the sacrificial film that allows it to protect flat-tappet camshafts and other highly loaded engine parts. So its possible at normal street speeds you may never have to use Zinc protection... The consensus among the experts warns of too much Zinc not less Zinc... 1. Well known and respected Engineer and Tech Author David Vizard, whose own test data, largely based on real world engine dyno testing, has concluded that more zinc in motor oil can be damaging, more zinc does NOT provide today’s best wear protection, and that using zinc as the primary anti-wear component, is outdated technology. 2. The GM Oil Report titled, “Oil Myths from GM Techlink”, concluded that high levels of zinc are damaging and that more zinc does NOT provide more wear protection. 3. A motor oil research article written by Ed Hackett titled, “More than you ever wanted to know about Motor Oil”, concluded that more zinc does NOT provide more wear protection, it only provides longer wear protection. 4. This from the Brad Penn Oil Company: There is such a thing as too much ZDDP. ZDDP is surface aggressive, and too much can be a detriment. ZDDP fights for the surface, blocking other additive performance. Acids generated due to excessive ZDDP contact will “tie-up” detergents thus encouraging corrosive wear. ZDDP effectiveness plateaus, more does NOT translate into more protection. Only so much is utilized. We don’t need to saturate our oil with ZDDP. 5 Blackstone Labs Motorcycle data... A cold start is a normal operating condition... your RPMs and energy are not high enough to activate the zinc additive... zinc can only react with a metal surface when the reaction energy (temperature) is high enough like during red line racing
 
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719
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I agree about excessive zinc. approved As Brad Penn said in your information above they don't over saturate with zinc. With further searching, I found that even though Brad Penn upped zinc levels in 2008 to 1500 PPM, they only did it because the market valued it ( i.e. customer perception). There was no performance data that helped drive that decision. With that said, what would have saved the flat tappet engines that were the horror stories decades ago because they were convinced lower zinc levels caused the problems? I would suspect those engines were started up fresh but at ambient temperature and under a light load so zinc would not come into play. Is it possible with high spring tension and aggressive lobes that zinc would come into play almost instantly at start up with pressure causing the heat for zinc to react and provide the barrier until things were broken in and surfaces mated with each other?
 
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Originally Posted by BusyLittleShop
Originally Posted by alarmguy
I would stick with a 50, why go down to a 40?
I know the answer... first of all Yamaha's engineers approve grades 15w50 or 10w40 full synthetic to reach our mileage expectations but only a full synthetic 40 grade will lower our operating temp because it flows with less drag than a 50 grade... oil drag is visibly real... The Importance of Viscosity? Quote Blackstone Labs The viscosity, or thickness of the oil, is not nearly as important as many people think. Oil retains its nature no matter what thickness it is.Think about this: automakers are continually recommending lighter multi-grade oil in new engines. The reason is increased efficiency. It takes power to pump oil through an engine, and the lighter the oil, the less power required to pump it. The oil's ability to act like a solid and protect parts is not related to its thickness. If that doesn't sound quite right, consider this: The gears in a heavy duty Allison automatic transmission are doing the same work as the same machine equipped with an Eaton manual transmission. Due to the hydraulics of the automatic, it runs on a 10W automatic transmission oil.But the manual transmission uses a very thick (sometimes up to 90W)gear lube oil. The gears of both types of transmissions will have a similar life span. We don't find any significant differences in wear, regardless of oil thickness. [Linked Image]
Wow that is some fantastic info. And you're right...I've heard running the lighter weight oil gives better performance...not that I'd be able to tell the difference. Thanks for the insight
 
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Originally Posted by BusyLittleShop
Originally Posted by Bonz
I need help understanding, as an example, how 600 PPM zinc will provide the exact same wear protection as 1800 PPM zinc in let's say the first 100 miles of use since it's probably safe to say it will not have been sacrificed. that period of time.
We all could use help understanding Zinc... because zinc is not even a lubricant until heat and load are applied. Zinc is only used when there is actual metal to metal contact in the engine. At that point zinc must react with the heat and load to create the sacrificial film that allows it to protect flat-tappet camshafts and other highly loaded engine parts. So its possible at normal street speeds you may never have to use Zinc protection... The consensus among the experts warns of too much Zinc not less Zinc... 1. Well known and respected Engineer and Tech Author David Vizard, whose own test data, largely based on real world engine dyno testing, has concluded that more zinc in motor oil can be damaging, more zinc does NOT provide today’s best wear protection, and that using zinc as the primary anti-wear component, is outdated technology. 2. The GM Oil Report titled, “Oil Myths from GM Techlink”, concluded that high levels of zinc are damaging and that more zinc does NOT provide more wear protection. 3. A motor oil research article written by Ed Hackett titled, “More than you ever wanted to know about Motor Oil”, concluded that more zinc does NOT provide more wear protection, it only provides longer wear protection. 4. This from the Brad Penn Oil Company: There is such a thing as too much ZDDP. ZDDP is surface aggressive, and too much can be a detriment. ZDDP fights for the surface, blocking other additive performance. Acids generated due to excessive ZDDP contact will “tie-up” detergents thus encouraging corrosive wear. ZDDP effectiveness plateaus, more does NOT translate into more protection. Only so much is utilized. We don’t need to saturate our oil with ZDDP. 5 Blackstone Labs Motorcycle data... A cold start is a normal operating condition... your RPMs and energy are not high enough to activate the zinc additive... zinc can only react with a metal surface when the reaction energy (temperature) is high enough like during red line racing
Thanks for the clarification. So far in researching oils, all I see if people taking about Zinc, Zinc, Zinc. I guess I need to stop overthinking all these additives, unless there is a "holy grail" additive that actually is proven to reduce wear/increase performance. As of now, I'm probably going to be running the cheapest Walmart motorcycle oil I can get. Considering I change oil every 2-3k miles.
 
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Yamaha has a high boron count in that oil. In layman's terms, what exactly does boron accomplish? Is it an anti wear additive that plates surfaces under higher pressure and protects them similar to zinc? Is it more of an overall friction reducer and provides more benefit all the time than just at the sacrificial limit such as zinc?
 
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Originally Posted by Bonz
Yamaha has a high boron count in that oil. In layman's terms, what exactly does boron accomplish?
Boron is your detergent / dispersant additive and antifreeze inhibitor... its not an anti wear additive...
 
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