NAPA European oil

[weasley]

If it says it meets LL04 then it meets LL04, they don’t need permission from BMW to say it meets LL04 and put LL04 on the oil specs.

That's a bold claim. The OEMs own the IP and rights to the specifications and approvals that they develop and administer and whilst some may choose not to endorse their rights, others do. Just using the term "BMW" is using BMW's protected brand and if you don't have their permission then you are strictly violating their rights.

"Meets the requirements of" is an accepted part of the consumer oil landscape, but that doesn't mean it is always tolerated.

 

[bbhero]

Still have not seen proof they are different. I'm only speaking of the 5w-40 Euro in both brands. I found @KCJeep VOA on Valvoline Euro 5w-40. However, I've not seen any Napa Euro 5w-40 VOA & there is no such report on PQIA either as you mentioned.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/valvoline-euro-5w40.338407/#post-5721548

Yeah PQIA did do Valvoline made for Napa. And Valvoline oils has well.

Granted it was in 5w30s and 5w20s … And 0w20 in the Valvoline advanced full synthetic.

Not in 5w40 … That aspect is true.

And it could possibly be that the 5w40 Napa oil could be the exact same as the Valvoline 5w40… Heck I wouldn’t rule that out as a possibility.

However you made the claim that Napa oils are the same as Valvoline… And you didn’t seem to be specific to just the 5w40 products n your original post about that.


Been awhile but they did them within a reasonable time around each other.

Clearly not the same additive treat rates…

Napa oils have much lower molybdenum and boron vs Valvoline oils.

Nothing “ wrong “ with the Napa oil made by Valvoline. Which is in all likelihood the exact same oil they make for Sunoco and others.

Heck I have used Napa oil made by Valvoline a few times myself. I believe it is a good oil to run.

 

[kschachn]

If it says it meets LL04 then it meets LL04, they don’t need permission from BMW to say it meets LL04 and put LL04 on the oil specs.

There are sometimes OEM recommendations for a particular oil and some Manufacturers sell other manufacturers oil in their own branded containers, Mercedes and BMW for example.

But not all Mercedes Dealers (or Mercedes Approved Service Centres) use the Mercedes oil, I used one that used Mobil, and it was only Mobil Super, not even Mobil 1, but it met the MB Specs.

I find that remarkable from someone who is terrified of warranty denial because of oil. BMW Longlife-04 is not a "spec to be met", it is an approval to be obtained.

Now that doesn't mean for a moment I would not use it in a BMW. But it wouldn't be because of the LL-04 "spec" on the label, but rather because it apparently does have equivalent Mercedes-Benz approvals. Although verifying that through Bevo is unclear.

"The engine is damaged. What oil are you using? Does it have BMW Longlife-04 approval?"​

"Well it says it meets the specs"​

"Sorry bigil, the manual says to use an oil with BMW Longlife-04 approval"​

 

[edyvw]

That's a bold claim. The OEMs own the IP and rights to the specifications and approvals that they develop and administer and whilst some may choose not to endorse their rights, others do. Just using the term "BMW" is using BMW's protected brand and if you don't have their permission then you are strictly violating their rights.

"Meets the requirements of" is an accepted part of the consumer oil landscape, but that doesn't mean it is always tolerated.

“BMW is not going to tell us whether our oil is suitable for BMW engines. Who are they to say what is OK and what not to use in their engines.”
It is one of the best “arguments.”

 

[fantastic]

Yeah PQIA did do Valvoline made for Napa. And Valvoline oils has well.

Granted it was in 5w30s and 5w20s … And 0w20 in the Valvoline advanced full synthetic.

Not in 5w40 … That aspect is true.

And it could possibly be that the 5w40 Napa oil could be the exact same as the Valvoline 5w40… Heck I wouldn’t rule that out as a possibility.

However you made the claim that Napa oils are the same as Valvoline… And you didn’t seem to be specific to just the 5w40 products n your original post about that.


Been awhile but they did them within a reasonable time around each other.

Clearly not the same additive treat rates…

Napa oils have much lower molybdenum and boron vs Valvoline oils.

Nothing “ wrong “ with the Napa oil made by Valvoline. Which is in all likelihood the exact same oil they make for Sunoco and others.

Heck I have used Napa oil made by Valvoline a few times myself. I believe it is a good oil to run.

From what is is listed in @himemsys PCMO VOA it does show a difference in Moly etc when comparing Napa vs Valvoline 5w-30. But are we comparing a like for like product & that I don't know. However, I'd imagine that Valvoline would want the "Better" product if there were differences. Thanks

 

[bbhero]

From what is is listed in @himemsys PCMO VOA it does show a difference in Moly etc when comparing Napa vs Valvoline 5w-30. But are we comparing a like for like product & that I don't know. However, I'd imagine that Valvoline would want the "Better" product if there were differences. Thanks

All good man…

Heck like you said…. And I would think there’s a good chance you are right… The 5w40 Napa and Valvoline full synthetic oils may well be the same. That wouldn’t surprise me a bit. Because it’s not a super high volume product.

Whereas the 5w30, 5w20 and 0w20 oil are much higher volume blended and needed oils.

It was quite a surprise to me when I found out Sunoco oils were being made by Valvoline… But hey.. Those are good to just like the Napa ones are. And at one time they were really decent prices from PSC. $38 for 12 qts of Sunoco full synthetic oils back in 2017. Not too bad.

Now Napa full synthetic oils are on a decent sale right now…

 

[loneryder]

SP is absolutely irrelevant for European vehicles.

What about the timing chain wear standards for SP?

 

[edyvw]

What about the timing chain wear standards for SP?

All European approvals have their own timing chain test. BMW probably most stringent done on an engine that actually had that issue.

 

[bigjl]

That's a bold claim. The OEMs own the IP and rights to the specifications and approvals that they develop and administer and whilst some may choose not to endorse their rights, others do. Just using the term "BMW" is using BMW's protected brand and if you don't have their permission then you are strictly violating their rights.

"Meets the requirements of" is an accepted part of the consumer oil landscape, but that doesn't mean it is always tolerated.

It’s not a bold claim.

It’s how it works in the rest of the world.

Unless you think Oil Manufacturers are routinely lying about the specs their oil meets?

The world is a big place

 

[bigjl]

I find that remarkable from someone who is terrified of warranty denial because of oil. BMW Longlife-04 is not a "spec to be met", it is an approval to be obtained.

Now that doesn't mean for a moment I would not use it in a BMW. But it wouldn't be because of the LL-04 "spec" on the label, but rather because it apparently does have equivalent Mercedes-Benz approvals. Although verifying that through Bevo is unclear.

"The engine is damaged. What oil are you using? Does it have BMW Longlife-04 approval?"​

"Well it says it meets the specs"​

"Sorry bigil, the manual says to use an oil with BMW Longlife-04 approval"​

You really do know less than you think you do?

Don’t you?

 

[kschachn]

You really do know less than you think you do?

Don’t you?

What don't I understand? Explain please. Tell me about approvals and warranty, I want to learn.

 

[bigjl]

What don't I understand? Explain please. Tell me about approvals and warranty, I want to learn.

You really know less than you think you do, don’t you?

Have you ever owned a vehicle under Manufacturers Warranty?

Or indeed any vehicle?

 

[edyvw]

You really know less than you think you do, don’t you?

Have you ever owned a vehicle under Manufacturers Warranty?

Or indeed any vehicle?

Stop embarrassing yourself. You are not getting any confirmation bias you are fishing for here. Your posts are really becoming more of attempt to vent off because you have other issues going on. You have no idea who you talking with, and just because you moved to UK, doesn’t mean wheel was suddenly reinvented.
Go for a run, do something.

 

[bigjl]

Stop embarrassing yourself. You are not getting any confirmation bias you are fishing for here. Your posts are really becoming more of attempt to vent off because you have other issues going on. You have no idea who you talking with, and just because you moved to UK, doesn’t mean wheel was suddenly reinvented.
Go for a run, do something.

He can answer for himself

Go embarrass yourself some where else

 

[edyvw]

He can answer for himself

Go embarrass yourself some where else

Again, running, sex, do something and let people actually talk oils.
For trade laws, bilateral agreements, your local university is place to get answers.

 

[4WD]

Folks need to consider what’s irrelevant to a bureaucracy is not irrelevant to a formulator when the same RE team puts out a global lubricant recipe

 

[Jerrysends]

Just bought a quart today to leave in the trunk of my 328ix.