1.Amsoil
2.Pennzoil Platinum
3.Pennzoil Platinum
2.Pennzoil Platinum
3.Pennzoil Platinum
Mobil 1 "fails" Seq. IVA wear test.
- Thread starter Corvette Owner
- Start date
- Status
Originally Posted By: BrianWC
Originally Posted By: SAJEFFC
This topic is like an ex-wife....it just won't go away!
Did you hear the one about Pennzoil wax? Killer on your engine, I hear. Many many generations ago, as far as I know it is no longer applicable! Now go pickup some Pennzoil Platinum!
Originally Posted By: SAJEFFC
This topic is like an ex-wife....it just won't go away!
Did you hear the one about Pennzoil wax? Killer on your engine, I hear. Many many generations ago, as far as I know it is no longer applicable! Now go pickup some Pennzoil Platinum!
So does this mean that Castrol has an "edge" on Pennzoil Platinum? Really other than the high over priced cost of Edge, is it just as good and or better than PP? Also, is it more closer to a group 4 oil or is it just a group 3?
Best Regards
Best Regards
Originally Posted By: gulfstream
So does this mean that Castrol has an "edge" on Pennzoil Platinum? Really other than the high over priced cost of Edge, is it just as good and or better than PP? Also, is it more closer to a group 4 oil or is it just a group 3?
Best Regards
If you want a 7500 mile OCI, PP is perfectly fine. If you want a longer OCI, then Castrol Edge is guaranteed up to 15,000 OCI. You can draw your own conclusions about what is "best."
So does this mean that Castrol has an "edge" on Pennzoil Platinum? Really other than the high over priced cost of Edge, is it just as good and or better than PP? Also, is it more closer to a group 4 oil or is it just a group 3?
Best Regards
If you want a 7500 mile OCI, PP is perfectly fine. If you want a longer OCI, then Castrol Edge is guaranteed up to 15,000 OCI. You can draw your own conclusions about what is "best."
StevieC,
Amsoil is a fine product, but your point #1 that Mobil 1 tries to get out of something is a rather odd thing to say. Any oil company that tells it's customers to ignor the warranty requirements on OCI for a car still under warranty is a very foolish thing to do. If anything your point shows the intelligence and concern that M1 has for it's customers. To say "ignor the auto warranty" is a grab for sales without without concern for the customer who may not know other wise.
Amsoil is a fine product, but your point #1 that Mobil 1 tries to get out of something is a rather odd thing to say. Any oil company that tells it's customers to ignor the warranty requirements on OCI for a car still under warranty is a very foolish thing to do. If anything your point shows the intelligence and concern that M1 has for it's customers. To say "ignor the auto warranty" is a grab for sales without without concern for the customer who may not know other wise.
Last edited:
Is it, or is it that Amsoil has confidence in their product and stands behind their mileage guarantee and makes no reference to having to worry about the "Warranty" period because they will pay out in the event of a problem, whereas M1 tries not to or tries to get out of it by stating that you should follow your OEM recommendations under the warranty period when we all know that OEM's can't deny warranty unless it is proven that the oil somehow failed to protect?
Why doesn't Mobil guarantee their product for the mileage without the OEM statement like Amsoil does? That's all I'm saying...
Is it because they (M1) don't believe in their product? Or because they want to claim it can do extended OCI's when it can't? Or because they want people to change their oil more often so they make more money?
Originally Posted By: Mobil1
ExxonMobil guarantees that the Mobil 1 Extended Performance lubricant you purchased will protect your vehicle’s critical engine parts from oil related failure for 15,000 miles or 1 year, which ever comes first. If not, provided the engine was serviceable at the time the oil was installed, ExxonMobil will have your vehicle repaired and replace the oil at no cost to you. Be advised that if your vehicle is covered by a warranty, you should follow the vehicle's oil life sensor or the oil change interval recommended in your owner's manual to avoid a disruption in your vehicle warranty.
Originally Posted By: Amsoil
Service Life
AMSOIL Signature Series 0W-30 Synthetic Motor Oil is recommended for extended drain intervals in unmodified(1), mechanically sound(2) gasoline fueled vehicles as follows:
• Normal Service(3) – Up to 35,000 miles or one year, whichever comes first.
• Severe Service(4) – Up to 17,500 miles or one year, whichever comes first.
• Replace AMSOIL Ea oil filter at the time of oil change up to 25,000 miles or one year, whichever comes first (other brands at standard OEM* intervals).
• In all non-gasoline fueled vehicle applications, extend the oil change interval according to oil analysis or follow the OEM* drain interval.
*OEM - Original Equipment Manufacturer
(1) Engines operating under modified conditions are excluded from extended drain recommendations. Examples include the use of performance computer chips; non-OEM approved exhaust, fuel or air induction systems; and the use of fuels other than those recommended for normal operation by the manufacturer.
(2) Mechanically sound engines are in good working condition and do not, for example, leak oil or consume excessive amounts, are not worn out, do not overheat, do not leak anti-freeze and have properly working emission control systems. AMSOIL recommends repairing malfunctioning engines prior to the installation of AMSOIL synthetic oils.
(3) Personal vehicles frequently traveling greater than 10 miles (16km) at a time and not operating under severe service.
(4) Turbo or supercharged vehicles, commercial or fleet vehicles, extensive engine idling, first and subsequent use of AMSOIL in vehicles with over 100,000 miles, daily short trip driving less than 10 miles (16km), frequent towing, plowing, hauling or dusty condition driving.
Why doesn't Mobil guarantee their product for the mileage without the OEM statement like Amsoil does? That's all I'm saying...
Is it because they (M1) don't believe in their product? Or because they want to claim it can do extended OCI's when it can't? Or because they want people to change their oil more often so they make more money?
Originally Posted By: Mobil1
ExxonMobil guarantees that the Mobil 1 Extended Performance lubricant you purchased will protect your vehicle’s critical engine parts from oil related failure for 15,000 miles or 1 year, which ever comes first. If not, provided the engine was serviceable at the time the oil was installed, ExxonMobil will have your vehicle repaired and replace the oil at no cost to you. Be advised that if your vehicle is covered by a warranty, you should follow the vehicle's oil life sensor or the oil change interval recommended in your owner's manual to avoid a disruption in your vehicle warranty.
Originally Posted By: Amsoil
Service Life
AMSOIL Signature Series 0W-30 Synthetic Motor Oil is recommended for extended drain intervals in unmodified(1), mechanically sound(2) gasoline fueled vehicles as follows:
• Normal Service(3) – Up to 35,000 miles or one year, whichever comes first.
• Severe Service(4) – Up to 17,500 miles or one year, whichever comes first.
• Replace AMSOIL Ea oil filter at the time of oil change up to 25,000 miles or one year, whichever comes first (other brands at standard OEM* intervals).
• In all non-gasoline fueled vehicle applications, extend the oil change interval according to oil analysis or follow the OEM* drain interval.
*OEM - Original Equipment Manufacturer
(1) Engines operating under modified conditions are excluded from extended drain recommendations. Examples include the use of performance computer chips; non-OEM approved exhaust, fuel or air induction systems; and the use of fuels other than those recommended for normal operation by the manufacturer.
(2) Mechanically sound engines are in good working condition and do not, for example, leak oil or consume excessive amounts, are not worn out, do not overheat, do not leak anti-freeze and have properly working emission control systems. AMSOIL recommends repairing malfunctioning engines prior to the installation of AMSOIL synthetic oils.
(3) Personal vehicles frequently traveling greater than 10 miles (16km) at a time and not operating under severe service.
(4) Turbo or supercharged vehicles, commercial or fleet vehicles, extensive engine idling, first and subsequent use of AMSOIL in vehicles with over 100,000 miles, daily short trip driving less than 10 miles (16km), frequent towing, plowing, hauling or dusty condition driving.
Originally Posted By: tig1
StevieC,
Amsoil is a fine product, but your point #1 that Mobil 1 tries to get out of something is a rather odd thing to say. Any oil company that tells it's customers to ignor the warranty requirements on OCI for a car still under warranty is a very foolish thing to do. If anything your point shows the intelligence and concern that M1 has for it's customers. To say "ignor the auto warranty" is a grab for sales without without concern for the customer who may not know other wise.
Not too long ago, Mobil 1 EP oil did not meet API Starburst and manufacturer requirements, and Mobil explicitly said on its website that it should not be used for an engine under warranty for that reason (even if you followed the manufacturer OCI). They have since changed the EP formula and the EP oils now meet API Starburst and manufacturer requirements and Mobil says it will not void your warranty.
I would have to give Mobil kudos for it previous warnings (before the formula change) to not use the EP oils for an engine under warranty when it did not previously meet the API Starburst and manufacturer requirements.
StevieC,
Amsoil is a fine product, but your point #1 that Mobil 1 tries to get out of something is a rather odd thing to say. Any oil company that tells it's customers to ignor the warranty requirements on OCI for a car still under warranty is a very foolish thing to do. If anything your point shows the intelligence and concern that M1 has for it's customers. To say "ignor the auto warranty" is a grab for sales without without concern for the customer who may not know other wise.
Not too long ago, Mobil 1 EP oil did not meet API Starburst and manufacturer requirements, and Mobil explicitly said on its website that it should not be used for an engine under warranty for that reason (even if you followed the manufacturer OCI). They have since changed the EP formula and the EP oils now meet API Starburst and manufacturer requirements and Mobil says it will not void your warranty.
I would have to give Mobil kudos for it previous warnings (before the formula change) to not use the EP oils for an engine under warranty when it did not previously meet the API Starburst and manufacturer requirements.
Using a Non-API certified oil will NOT automatically VOID your warranty!
The only time it would is in the event that it fails to protect the engine and you have a lubrication related failure which is proved to be the fault of using "Non-spec" oil. in Amsoil's case it would be covered by their insurance policy because they stand behind their products.
I don't see what the problem is in this case...
Now with the M1, if they stated it on the website thats because they don't want to be held liable for their formulation.
I honestly think, and not to pick on M1, but I think that XOM is using creative legal wording to avoid paying out for people who want to do extended drains while the car is still under the OEM warranty. Why I don't know... But if they had true confidence in their product like Amsoil they would back it with a Mileage guarantee that is clear cut like posted above.
Sounds really simple to me?!?
The only time it would is in the event that it fails to protect the engine and you have a lubrication related failure which is proved to be the fault of using "Non-spec" oil. in Amsoil's case it would be covered by their insurance policy because they stand behind their products.
I don't see what the problem is in this case...
Now with the M1, if they stated it on the website thats because they don't want to be held liable for their formulation.
I honestly think, and not to pick on M1, but I think that XOM is using creative legal wording to avoid paying out for people who want to do extended drains while the car is still under the OEM warranty. Why I don't know... But if they had true confidence in their product like Amsoil they would back it with a Mileage guarantee that is clear cut like posted above.
Sounds really simple to me?!?
StevieC, You can argue that point all day long, but you and I both know M1 oils are world class lubs as evidenced by auto manf all over the world endorsing them as FF. Amsoil is also world class, but I question their telling their customers to ignor the Warranty of their cars. I believe it's a sales pitch that could come back on Amsoil as a company. As good as they are.
Originally Posted By: tig1
StevieC, You can argue that point all day long, but you and I both know M1 oils are world class lubs as evidenced by auto manf all over the world endorsing them as FF. Amsoil is also world class, but I question their telling their customers to ignor the Warranty of their cars. I believe it's a sales pitch that could come back on Amsoil as a company. As good as they are.
I never said that M1 products weren't world class, or weren't an awesome product because I think they are a very good oil and one I would use with confidence, I just don't understand why they wouldn't approach it from the same stand point as Amsoil with a Mileage guarantee when they market it as a 15K oil but then go back and say, but while under warranty change as per the OEM reccomendations.
Amsoil has been in business for over 30 years, hasn't been shut down by the FTC, has paid out only a handful of claims for when the oil hasn't held up which is pretty good considering it is used in millions of cars and their sales are growing exponentially year after year.
Don't know about you, but I don't see this "mileage guarantee" biting them in the behind.
Keep in mind that a handful of claims for payouts could have been related to some engine defect or something unforeseen in the production process and can happen with any company.
So why can't XOM make these same claims if they truly believe in their product for 15K Miles, They have a ton more money than Amsoil and could easily pay for even a couple thousand engines per year in the off chance that they needed to.
I honestly think that if M1 came out and said use it for 15K miles in normal operating conditions and 7500K in severe, and would let anyone (other than known sludgers) hold them to this test of time, that it would go a great deal with consumers in believing that M1 is one tough product that can't be beat for the price and would truly prove "World leading synthetic oil" to be 100% true ?!?
StevieC, You can argue that point all day long, but you and I both know M1 oils are world class lubs as evidenced by auto manf all over the world endorsing them as FF. Amsoil is also world class, but I question their telling their customers to ignor the Warranty of their cars. I believe it's a sales pitch that could come back on Amsoil as a company. As good as they are.
I never said that M1 products weren't world class, or weren't an awesome product because I think they are a very good oil and one I would use with confidence, I just don't understand why they wouldn't approach it from the same stand point as Amsoil with a Mileage guarantee when they market it as a 15K oil but then go back and say, but while under warranty change as per the OEM reccomendations.
Amsoil has been in business for over 30 years, hasn't been shut down by the FTC, has paid out only a handful of claims for when the oil hasn't held up which is pretty good considering it is used in millions of cars and their sales are growing exponentially year after year.
Don't know about you, but I don't see this "mileage guarantee" biting them in the behind.
Keep in mind that a handful of claims for payouts could have been related to some engine defect or something unforeseen in the production process and can happen with any company.
So why can't XOM make these same claims if they truly believe in their product for 15K Miles, They have a ton more money than Amsoil and could easily pay for even a couple thousand engines per year in the off chance that they needed to.
I honestly think that if M1 came out and said use it for 15K miles in normal operating conditions and 7500K in severe, and would let anyone (other than known sludgers) hold them to this test of time, that it would go a great deal with consumers in believing that M1 is one tough product that can't be beat for the price and would truly prove "World leading synthetic oil" to be 100% true ?!?
The manufacturer is the one who will ultimately decide if they are going to fix you warranty issue. They don't WANT to do this, as it cost them money.
Therefore, EVERY manufacturer looks for ANY reason to deny a warranty claim. Even if the failure is not oil-related, if they 'somehow' found out you are using a non-API-certified oil, they could void your warranty entirely, due to 'not following warranty conditions', which among a myriad of other things, includes, somewhere, to 'use API-certified oil'.
So they deny your warranty, and you think this is unfair, as the repair is not oil related. Or even if it IS oil related, you're using (most likely) a higher than API-cert. oil. BUT, they are going to fight you on it. Manufacturers are very big, very bureaucratic, and it would take you forever to 'win' the fight. Meanwhile, your car is bust.
OR, you can use and API-cert. oil (which Amsoil DOES make), and not have to worry about this - your choice. That's why Amsoil makes their XL line, for people who actually read their warranty and understand thast the manufacturer can make life very difficult for them if they don't do EXACTLY what it says.
Therefore, EVERY manufacturer looks for ANY reason to deny a warranty claim. Even if the failure is not oil-related, if they 'somehow' found out you are using a non-API-certified oil, they could void your warranty entirely, due to 'not following warranty conditions', which among a myriad of other things, includes, somewhere, to 'use API-certified oil'.
So they deny your warranty, and you think this is unfair, as the repair is not oil related. Or even if it IS oil related, you're using (most likely) a higher than API-cert. oil. BUT, they are going to fight you on it. Manufacturers are very big, very bureaucratic, and it would take you forever to 'win' the fight. Meanwhile, your car is bust.
OR, you can use and API-cert. oil (which Amsoil DOES make), and not have to worry about this - your choice. That's why Amsoil makes their XL line, for people who actually read their warranty and understand thast the manufacturer can make life very difficult for them if they don't do EXACTLY what it says.
addyguy,
That's not true... They can't deny you for using a Non-API certified oil, nor can they deny you for extending your drain interval unless they provide the oil free of charge as per the Moss-M act.
They can however deny you if they prove that it was the fault of the oil that wasn't API certified, or that it was your fault for not changing it frequently enough as per their outlined recommendation in the manual.
They would have to tear down the engine and prove it, and not just say "sorry, we see that you went X amount of miles instead of the recommendation" or "You used an NON-API certified oil, so we voided your warranty"
They physically have to take the engine a part and see that is was truly lubrication related failure due to the oil not standing up or being used beyond it's limits.
Again, this would be covered by Amsoil because they guarantee based on mileage so in the off chance that the oil failed to lubricate it would be covered by them so there is nothing to worry about.
In the chance something else goes wrong with the engine like a camshaft snapping and it's NOT oil related but because of a casting defect etc. it would have to be replaced by the OEM without exception of what oil you used or how long you used it!
I don't understand how much clearer I can be...
That's not true... They can't deny you for using a Non-API certified oil, nor can they deny you for extending your drain interval unless they provide the oil free of charge as per the Moss-M act.
They can however deny you if they prove that it was the fault of the oil that wasn't API certified, or that it was your fault for not changing it frequently enough as per their outlined recommendation in the manual.
They would have to tear down the engine and prove it, and not just say "sorry, we see that you went X amount of miles instead of the recommendation" or "You used an NON-API certified oil, so we voided your warranty"
They physically have to take the engine a part and see that is was truly lubrication related failure due to the oil not standing up or being used beyond it's limits.
Again, this would be covered by Amsoil because they guarantee based on mileage so in the off chance that the oil failed to lubricate it would be covered by them so there is nothing to worry about.
In the chance something else goes wrong with the engine like a camshaft snapping and it's NOT oil related but because of a casting defect etc. it would have to be replaced by the OEM without exception of what oil you used or how long you used it!
I don't understand how much clearer I can be...
I should of also added:
Dealerships will try to use scare tactics when trying to void warranties, or scare tactics with inaccurate information claiming that your oil has to be changed with a certain type at a certain time but they can't hold you to it unless they provide it for free at per the Moss-M act.
So if you use a NON-API certified oil or an extended drain interval you can force them to prove that it was the oil that caused your problem and not workmanship/design flaws!
Look at what Toyota tried to do with the sludgers and those people used an API certified oil within the OCI's as set out by Toyota but they tried to deny them the repairs...
So what I'm saying is that if they prove it was the oil, then you always have the oil company like Amsoil to fall back on who stands behind their products with an insurance company.
So in my mind there is NO WORRIES!
Dealerships will try to use scare tactics when trying to void warranties, or scare tactics with inaccurate information claiming that your oil has to be changed with a certain type at a certain time but they can't hold you to it unless they provide it for free at per the Moss-M act.
So if you use a NON-API certified oil or an extended drain interval you can force them to prove that it was the oil that caused your problem and not workmanship/design flaws!
Look at what Toyota tried to do with the sludgers and those people used an API certified oil within the OCI's as set out by Toyota but they tried to deny them the repairs...
So what I'm saying is that if they prove it was the oil, then you always have the oil company like Amsoil to fall back on who stands behind their products with an insurance company.
So in my mind there is NO WORRIES!
I think Mobil is just listening to its legal department. I put in Mobil when I had about 9k to go before my OCI is up. If I let it slide past that 9k because Mobil says I can go 15k, then my warranty would be void because I didn't follow the mandated OCI.
Did I explain that right? Did I state the obvious? Or am I just feeling the effects of being awake for the last 32 hours?
ps. I don't use Amsoil, so I can't knock it. But, they do have an approved oil for my car. Tempting.....
Did I explain that right? Did I state the obvious? Or am I just feeling the effects of being awake for the last 32 hours?
ps. I don't use Amsoil, so I can't knock it. But, they do have an approved oil for my car. Tempting.....
Go get some sleep and then reread my posts above...
I hear you... And I know we have a similar law/act but can't recall what its called. I know it exists...
Besides... I'm arguing with Americans, other than yourself so my points are valid with them.
When I find the act/law for Canada I will let you know.
Besides... I'm arguing with Americans, other than yourself so my points are valid with them.
When I find the act/law for Canada I will let you know.
Fair enough. I know your argument is valid for our American buddies. I think we will find tho, that in Canada, the law is more slanted toward protection for the manufacturer...so I wouldn't push the issue in Canada, as I said in my original post.
But yeah, if you find an Act, let me know!
But yeah, if you find an Act, let me know!
So we have the organization: CAMVAP and they will arbitrate between you and the manufacturer if you have proof that it wasn't the oil that caused the problem and they are trying to deny warranty.
You get a UOA or some other proof that it wasn't the oil and they will fight to have the engine replaced for you.
Pretty cool organization, the more I read about it and it is all tax-payer money driven and they will fight even for lemons too!
So in a way we have our own protection, just not a formal act.
You get a UOA or some other proof that it wasn't the oil and they will fight to have the engine replaced for you.
Pretty cool organization, the more I read about it and it is all tax-payer money driven and they will fight even for lemons too!
So in a way we have our own protection, just not a formal act.
- Status
