Mobil 1 AFE

[kschachn]

I did read it. Compared to "higher viscosity oils". A 20W-50 is "a higher viscosity oil".

Again, why would you assume 5W-20? That seems like the last oil you would use as a comparison, considering the relatively tiny viscosity difference that might exist.

Not only that, the text says you can see the improvement by switching to a 0W-30. How could that be better than a 5W-20?

Understand I use AFE 0W-20 in my ECHO and it seems to work fine. But that comparison thingy is flawed.

Originally Posted By: 2010_FX4
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Why would you? It could just as well be compared to a 20W-50.

I am certain that Mobil is not using 20W-50 as a comparison and am fairly certain they are using 5W-20--read the text at the bottom of the screenshot.

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: JOD
If you look at XOM's website, here's their exact wording:

"Based on 20 MPG, $3/gal gasoline and a potential 2% fuel economy improvement (based on a comparison versus those grades most commonly used)."

There's some good weasel wording going on there. No doubt that the 0W20 will save you some fuel, but the 2% is obviously based on a heavier oil. And trying to measure a 2% difference in FE is unrealistic. It's well within the noise of measurement; doesn't mean the differences aren't there, just that you can't measure them without incredibly rigorous controls.

I imagine I'm getting a free 1/2 a tank of gas each year by using a light 0W20, but I also know there's no way to demonstrate it. I'll trust the physics of it.

Exactly, there are so many variables that affect fuel economy, that a couple of percentage points can't be accurately determined outside of a lab'.
The take away from what Mobil claims in terms of fuel economy is that AFE 0W-20 is their most fuel efficient motor oil.

If you want an oil that is more fuel efficient than AFE 0W-20 then it would be an OEM 0W-20 such as the Mobil made Toyota 0W-20. A percentage point or two is a big deal to the OEMs which is why they have developed the ultra high viscosity index oils for their own use. Again whether the consumer can reliably see the same fuel savings is hard to say since it is small but you'll just have to take it on faith that the OEMs didn't go to the trouble and expense of developing these high fuel efficient oils if the savings weren't real.

 

[Hyde244]

Changing oil viscosities accounts for 2% swings in fuel efficiency. All things considered, this is a small piece of the pie, with tire pressure, car maintenance, and driving behavior holding larger bearing on your mpg.

Driving behavior alone can account for a reduction in MPG of 10%, if not more.

Your foot will have greater influence on MPG than oil weight. That being said, the assumptions used for Mobil 1's MPG calculator is derived from a U.S. Department of Energy.

It is possible to observe a 1 to 2% increase in fuel economy switching from 10w30 to 5w30, and a 1 to 1.5% increase in fuel economy switching from a 5w30 to 5w20. I'd imagine a switch from 5w20 to 0w20 or 5w30 to 0w30 would weigh in under 2%.

 

[CarbonSteel]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
I did read it. Compared to "higher viscosity oils". A 20W-50 is "a higher viscosity oil".

Again, why would you assume 5W-20? That seems like the last oil you would use as a comparison, considering the relatively tiny viscosity difference that might exist.

Not only that, the text says you can see the improvement by switching to a 0W-30. How could that be better than a 5W-20?

Understand I use AFE 0W-20 in my ECHO and it seems to work fine. But that comparison thingy is flawed.

Originally Posted By: 2010_FX4
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Why would you? It could just as well be compared to a 20W-50.

I am certain that Mobil is not using 20W-50 as a comparison and am fairly certain they are using 5W-20--read the text at the bottom of the screenshot.

Maybe it is, but since I had to enter exact information about the vehicle and when using their other tools they clearly point out 5W-20 for my vehicle. Perhaps, I am overstepping the thought that all of the dots connect behind the scene

 

[CATERHAM]

Mobil claims their AFE 0W-20 can be used in any application for which a 5W-20 is specified with no risk to any manufacturers warranty.

 

[addyguy]

I ran AFE 0W-20 this past winter in my Tribute, not for MPG gains, but solely for the cold start-up properties. Last winter, I ran QSGB 5W-20 in it.

At very cold starts, the engine did spin much more freely, and when it caught, there was NO labouring, whining, or cold-engine noises you sometimes hear. Also, the engine dropped off high idle much, much sooner than it had before. Overall, it was very smooth in bitterly cold starts, vs. being rough and having to smooth out.

I did experience some slight 'valve chatter' at very cold starts that I have never heard before on this engine ever. However, there was no excess wear in the UOA to indicate a problem. I just assume the oil drained off engine parts more thoroughly than previous oils, including out of the lifters.

AFE 0W-20 is an excellent winter lubricant if nothing else.

 

[FZ1]

Originally Posted By: Brule
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: icruse

I've mentioned this a few times before in other threads...0-20 afe decreased mpg in my civic as it approached 200k miles. This was vs 5w-20 m1 EP & m1. afe


I have had the exact same experience in a Ford Windstar, it gets consistently better mpg and is quieter with the M1 EP 5W20 over the 0W20 AFE. I compared this over the last two years of driving, so for now I will stick with the M1 5W30 EP with this vehicle.

And if you guys actually think it is because of the oil then I guess you'll believe anything, which is a scary thought.

If the oil was the only variable I changed then it was the oil. I clarified my statement with my car had nearly 200k miles. I stated what I stated from experience not theory. I am not baselessly attacking your precious oil.
Right. Actual Experience supercedes Theory.

 

[kschachn]

Only when the experience is credible, documented, repeatable and withstands peer review. So far none of those apply.

Originally Posted By: FZ1
Originally Posted By: Brule
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: icruse

I've mentioned this a few times before in other threads...0-20 afe decreased mpg in my civic as it approached 200k miles. This was vs 5w-20 m1 EP & m1. afe


I have had the exact same experience in a Ford Windstar, it gets consistently better mpg and is quieter with the M1 EP 5W20 over the 0W20 AFE. I compared this over the last two years of driving, so for now I will stick with the M1 5W30 EP with this vehicle.

And if you guys actually think it is because of the oil then I guess you'll believe anything, which is a scary thought.


If the oil was the only variable I changed then it was the oil. I clarified my statement with my car had nearly 200k miles. I stated what I stated from experience not theory. I am not baselessly attacking your precious oil.
Right. Actual Experience supercedes Theory.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: 2010_FX4
I am certain that Mobil is not using 20W-50 as a comparison and am fairly certain they are using 5W-20--read the text at the bottom of the screenshot.


I might be reading a different screenshot...the one at the top of this thread says that the anticipated saving is based on switching from a "higher viscosity oil"...and that "actual" savings are dependent on factors such as your current oil viscosity.

Their website clarifies (for want of a better word) it better by saying that the comparisons are against "commonly used viscosity grades", and offers exactly the same savings for the 0W-30 as the 0W-20...if so, I'd pick the 30.

Other interesting thing on the Mobil website is that they are suggesting that this oil does not offer "ultimate" protection.

I put a Subaru BRZ (they ARE available in the third world, and they do specify 0W-20, and it's available)...The AFE is only rated at "premium" protection, not "ultimate"....FWIW...

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: FZ1
Right. Actual Experience supercedes Theory.


What, of running an oil that has changed sippliers and additive packs multiple times over the last 5 years and had nothing blown up ???

 

[Brule]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
What kind of mileage decrease did you see and how did you measure it? What were your test conditions?


It was early December. Same driving routine. Same gas station...total miles divided by gallons used. Normal mpg was consistent 29. Dropped just below 27 with 0-20. Returned to 29 after going back to 5-30 and 0-30 M1. I think this occurred only because of my high miles. A newer engine should not see these results.

 

[CarbonSteel]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
I put a Subaru BRZ (they ARE available in the third world, and they do specify 0W-20, and it's available)...The AFE is only rated at "premium" protection, not "ultimate"....FWIW...

When I enter my FX4, only EP appears as ultimate protection, but AFE appears as superior. Here is the full listing for my FX4:

]

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: 2010_FX4
When I enter my FX4, only EP appears as ultimate protection, but AFE appears as superior. Here is the full listing for my FX4:

I can't speak for your neck of the woods, but up here, AFE is priced the same as ordinary M1. The EP is more expensive, and we all know that for ultimate protection/performance, we need to pay more.

 

[CarbonSteel]

Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: 2010_FX4
When I enter my FX4, only EP appears as ultimate protection, but AFE appears as superior. Here is the full listing for my FX4:

I can't speak for your neck of the woods, but up here, AFE is priced the same as ordinary M1. The EP is more expensive, and we all know that for ultimate protection/performance, we need to pay more.

It is the same here - ~$21.50 for AFE and M1 and ~$26.50 for EP in 5QT jugs at WM.

 

[Garak]

I'm going to ignore the fact that your WM sells M1 for less than our WMs sell conventional for (regular price, anyhow). And, the EP price you quoted is pretty much what Canadian Tire sells conventional for. To heck with them both.

 

[Hermann]

Originally Posted By: Garak
I'm going to ignore the fact that your WM sells M1 for less than our WMs sell conventional for (regular price, anyhow). And, the EP price you quoted is pretty much what Canadian Tire sells conventional for. To heck with them both.

Then I won't tell you that I will have less than $11 in my next change of full synthetic oil. Yes, we are lucky here in the state. But soon we will be taxed to death like you folks north of the border. Like the song says, "It's just a matter of time"

 

[Garak]

It's convenient to blame the government, and they certainly shoulder some responsibility. However, I am not very keen on what appears to be over 100% markup on regular priced motor oil at Walmart and Canadian Tire when other retailers have to suffer with a much, much, much lower markup.

I should not be getting Mobil products at the Imperial Oil distributor at a 50% discount compared to Walmart.

 

[kschachn]

Why did it occur due to your high mileage engine?

Originally Posted By: Brule
Originally Posted By: kschachn
What kind of mileage decrease did you see and how did you measure it? What were your test conditions?


It was early December. Same driving routine. Same gas station...total miles divided by gallons used. Normal mpg was consistent 29. Dropped just below 27 with 0-20. Returned to 29 after going back to 5-30 and 0-30 M1. I think this occurred only because of my high miles. A newer engine should not see these results.

 

[Brule]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM

2010_FX4 I apologize to you and agree name calling has no place on BITOG but in my defense I have a right to defend myself when slandered.
Have no fear though that this thread will not be locked as name calling is now totally permissible on BITOG. That hasn't always been the case, as personal attacks were dealt with quickly, removed from the thread and the perpetrator was given a holiday.

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
And if you guys actually think it is because of the oil then I guess you'll believe anything, which is a scary thought.


To be clear, you (without provocation) insulted two members experiences who were giving the original poster precise feedback on his original question. Next time you do that I will be sure to not go overboard in my response and not "name-call" since that appears to be what is frowned upon...not insulting others in this passive-aggressive manner.

I'm apologizing now to Caterham for what I called you...actually what I compared you to. That won't happen again. I just ask that the next time a post you don't believe or understand comes up you don't instantly insult other member like you did above.

 

[Brule]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
Why did it occur due to your high mileage engine?

Originally Posted By: Brule
Originally Posted By: kschachn
What kind of mileage decrease did you see and how did you measure it? What were your test conditions?


It was early December. Same driving routine. Same gas station...total miles divided by gallons used. Normal mpg was consistent 29. Dropped just below 27 with 0-20. Returned to 29 after going back to 5-30 and 0-30 M1. I think this occurred only because of my high miles. A newer engine should not see these results.


This is just my theory. My engine, being well-worn, consumes a lot of oil. 0w-20 or 5w-20 can both be seen in the exhaust during WOT. 5w-30 stops the smoke but there is still consumption. I am only assuming that 5w-30 at this point is the ideal weight and 0-20 is too thin to offer enough protection. In a healthy engine that calls for a 20 the oil would be just fine, though.