Metal particles in oil

[Papageorgio]

First let me say I'm a long time reader of these forums but have never posted anything before, I've read several threads about this but I still have some questions about what I'm seeing and what is Considered normal.

I have a silverado with a 5.3l engine, the mileage is unknown on the motor (it's been replaced and was used). Motor runs excellent, doesn't use oil, doesn't smoke, excellent oil pressure, no knocks or ticks (other than the famous cold start piston slap that almost all of these ls based motors have and I've read a lot about that to confirm what I'm hearing is normal). The engine did have a lot of sludge buildup in the lower end when I got it, I cleaned the oil pan inside and put it on with a new gasket when I got the motor. I checked the sludge buildup in the pan when I got the motor for any metal or metallic debris and it looked clean in that regard. I just did my second oild change with Mobil 1 5 30, full synthetic (acdelco filters) and noticed that I have metallic particles suspended in my oil, in every drop of it, they're non magnetic, not enough of them to be clumped or swirled as I've seen before on motors with bearings failing, could this be from the sludge being cleaned out and releasing all the trapped particles it's had packed in with it? This was a short oil change as well, only 1000miles and the oil was black and the filter had caught a lot of sludge crud. The filter pleats only contained three extremely tiny visible particles that weren't sludge, only three and they were extremely tiny, that could have been contamination from cutting the filter so I'm not that concerned about that right now as much as I am the particles or dust throughout the oil, couldn't really capture the oil with shiny particles in a picture though. Does this just sound like it's cleaning out and I suppose stirring up all the buildup in this engine or something else, Thanks everybody for your time and replies

 

[Snagglefoot]

I would continue with the super short oil change interval. It sounds like the engine is giving up the crud quite nicely. Yep, the metallic particles were probably trapped in the crud in the oil galleys.

 

[Danno]

With such super short intervals, I would use a conventional oil, one that is available at a great price and that has a good reputation on BITOG.
PYB, or Castrol GTX come to mind.

 

[Papageorgio]

OK, will do, thanks very much for the reply

 

[HangFire]

What you're doing is fine keep it up. You might consider a synthetic filter (finer filtering) like a Fram Ultra, and/or Pennzoil Ultra Platinum, since that is a high cleaning oil.

 

[sprite1741]

If that 5.3L has AFM/DOD use the Fram Ultra. Those lifters are very sensitive to dirty oil and some have failed because of it. There is also a screen under the oil pressure sensor. 10 minute job to check it and clean if necessary. Don't use cheap filters with AFM, just causes trouble. My screen is still clean after 14 years but I have seen online pictures of some that were almost completely clogged because of poor oil change practice.

 

[Papageorgio]

It's not a dod engine but I'll keep that in mind if I ever get a newer truck that has one, and I'll get some good filters as recommended, thanks for all the info and help everybody

 

[StevieC]

It's possible that what you are seeing is gasket material and not metal bits. When I changed the factory fill on my Toyota it had all sorts of metal looking bits in the oil and I when I rubbed this debris between my fingers I could feel that it was infact soft and not metalic.

Perhaps it's the same for you. Just some gasket material that was held somewhere in the engine by deposits and using a good oil like M1 released it.

You could also always do a $10 Wix UOA from RockAuto and confirm it. You are looking for: WIX 24077

 

[thescreensavers]

Originally Posted by StevieC


You could also always do a $10 Wix UOA from RockAuto and confirm it. You are looking for: WIX 24077



I thought oil analysis cant see large oil particles like that and wouldn't show up in the analysis?

Quote
Most non-metallic particles and/or metallic particles too large to be detected by ICP won't show up unless they are acid digested.

 

[StevieC]

It can pickup a certain spectrum, yes, but it's not like you would only have one size in there if you are visibly seeing debris then there should be other smaller measurable amounts as well. (not always, but usually).

If it's non-metalic it will show up as Silica or Insolubles. Either way it should show some non-typical numbers on the UOA and for $10 why not sort of thing...

 

[Linctex]

Are you talking about looking at the drained oil in the sunlight and it looks like metallic gold paint?

I have seen that on MANY engines and can't explain it.

 

[Papageorgio]

Yes very similar, I'll describe it to be sure, if I look at some of the oil I caught in a clean container with my bright overhead light or with my flashlight (and both have a different color tint to them) I was able to see it in the oil, just very fine dust / particles floating in the oil, big enough to see but small enough if I didn't go out of my way to really try and see them I wouldn't. it does look similar to what you're describing and it probably would more so if the oil wasn't so dark when it came out.

 

[StevieC]

If you drain this through a coffee filter or some paper towel you will be able to collect the bits.
Try without Acetone first but you may need to cut it with some Acetone to get the oil to flow through the filter and just leave the bits behind.

 

[Papageorgio]

I should have time tomorrow tofilter it. Just out of curiosity how much more filtration will the coffee filter have vs the acdelco oil filter, just wondering because the oil filter did not collect any of these particles bc they were all far too small.

 

[StevieC]

A quick google says coffee filters is 20 micron which should be small enough filtration that it should catch it if you can see it with your eyes.
20 microns is pretty small. The diameter of a human hair is ~25 micron for comparison.

It's possible whatever this is was in the pan and hadn't gone through the oil filter when you drained it.

 

[Linctex]

I've been under the impression that the metallic bits I see swirling in the oil in the sunlight were all small enough to go through the filter media...

Which is why I have a bypass oil filter installed

 

[Papageorgio]

The filter I was using is rated at 30 microns so they've got to be smaller than that. I'm going to change the oil and put a synthetic media filter in and see if it clears up on the next short oil change.

 

[Papageorgio]

I've read that the human eye can't see less than 40 microns, I'm just wondering if the particles are only visible because of the presence of light reflecting on them, and without the reflection I wouldn't see them at all.

 

[NutherDriver]

Gold-looking particles in oil would have to be from bronze bearings somewhere in the engine, wouldn't they? Engines with balance shafts have bronze bearings for them, oil pumps maybe? What are the 'little end' bearings in the connecting rods? And the babbited bearings have copper under a thin layer of babbit I believe -- or maybe I'm remembering that from the 50's.

I'd be inclined to pull the pan and look for the source of those particles. Depending on the situation perhaps a new oil pump and either very regular starting without high RPM until oil is flowing or an instant oil pressure gizmo.

Oil flows from the pump through the filter, thence to the bearings (etc.), thence back to the pan. Thus particles in the pan need not have been through the filter.