Manufacturers, Bypasses & Large Sumps

Messages
634
Location
CA
Thread starter
Hey BITOGERS, I had a quick question regarding the thought processes of major manufacturers in extending the recommended oil change intervals. -- Why don't major manufacturers just make the oil capacity larger and include some kind of multiple filter/ bypass/ magnets to extend oil change intervals? From what we see from the likes of Mobil 1, Amsoil etc... Oils should be able to handle 25,000 miles without much drama? Does it all boil down to cost or am I missing something? Maybe an additive you add after 15,000 miles to "rejuvenate" the oils?
 
Messages
7,019
Location
North Carolina
Consider the cost to increase your cars sump size and install bypass filtration, then mulitply it by hundred of thousands of units, all to decrease the traffic through your loyal franchises. And then you have to convince Billy Bob that he can go 25,000 miles between changes for your "improvements" to mean anything. Otherwise it's just more cost and no one benefits.
 
Messages
858
Location
Alberta
Initial cost and cost of ownership will both be higher than the competition and you'll lose customers. Never forget, 90+% of drivers don't have a sniff about oil, fluids or their vehicle in general. As long as it survives the warranty period, the manufacturer doesn't care.
 
Messages
634
Location
CA
Thread starter
Originally Posted by tcp71
Initial cost and cost of ownership will both be higher than the competition and you'll lose customers. Never forget, 90+% of drivers don't have a sniff about oil, fluids or their vehicle in general. As long as it survives the warranty period, the manufacturer doesn't care.
It seems to be good enough for Amsoil...?
 
Messages
7,019
Location
North Carolina
Originally Posted by ad244
Originally Posted by tcp71
Initial cost and cost of ownership will both be higher than the competition and you'll lose customers. Never forget, 90+% of drivers don't have a sniff about oil, fluids or their vehicle in general. As long as it survives the warranty period, the manufacturer doesn't care.
It seems to be good enough for Amsoil...?
Amsoil is a drop in the bucket compared to the big boys.
 
Messages
634
Location
CA
Thread starter
Originally Posted by rooflessVW
Originally Posted by ad244
Originally Posted by tcp71
Initial cost and cost of ownership will both be higher than the competition and you'll lose customers. Never forget, 90+% of drivers don't have a sniff about oil, fluids or their vehicle in general. As long as it survives the warranty period, the manufacturer doesn't care.
It seems to be good enough for Amsoil...?
Amsoil is a drop in the bucket compared to the big boys.
I dont really understand your response...? Drop in the bucket compared to what? What I'm saying is that Amsoil is already saying their oil will do 25,000 miles with the factory filtration & small sump sizes we currently have. Couldn't we get multiple filters & larger sumps for most manufacturers to recommend 25,000-mile OCI or even further?
 
Messages
24,629
Location
Upstate NY
They have done what you are asking with pickup truck diesel engines. Just add a bypass oil filter and you are good for a long OCI. But for the original question its about cost and value add. If two cars cost the same and are similar in style, etc but one needs service every 10K miles and the other every 20K miles, then the 20K one has a value add. But if the one with 20K service interval costs an extra $1000 then maybe the extra cost does not cover the value add. But the bean counters make the final decisions.
 
Messages
14,024
Location
...
The oil may be good for 25,000 mile oci but will the engine let it? You have to look at it from both sides.
 
Messages
10,425
Location
Cincinnati, OH, USA
Different driving styles (short trip, stop & go in the city, and all high speed highway) are going to dictate how far an OCI can go. Plus a mfr. has to gamble on how much oil gets consumed, does the vehicle owner bother to check levels (quick tip-most non-BITOG drivers could care less)? Too many factors at play to gamble potential huge warranty costs. Heck, we're having trouble getting Ford (& their dealers) to repair things under warranty already! If the drivetrain doesn't blow up, making the vehicle unusable, the dealers really don't seem to care.
 
Messages
1,279
Location
FL
Plus how many people would still change their oil when it still has half its life. Cheap insurance they will say . . .
 
Messages
4,165
Location
WA
Originally Posted by ad244
From what we see from the likes of Mobil 1, Amsoil etc... Oils should be able to handle 25,000 miles without much drama?
Not if it's severe service or still under warranty. The day I see broad support amongst passenger vehicle OEM's in the form of owners manuals spec's, I'll consider 20k+ mile oci's. Until then, color me sceptical of the tail that's wagging the dog....
 
Last edited:
Messages
2,942
Location
Western S.C.
Originally Posted by PowerSurge
That would increase manufacturing costs, be ‘more harmful for the environment', and increase the cost of ownership.
... and add weight and fuel consumption, which they're trying to avoid. It's strange how some people are calling ordinary or larger sump capacities small these days.
 
Messages
13,198
Location
Maricopa Arizona
Originally Posted by BeerCan
Plus how many people would still change their oil when it still has half its life. Cheap insurance they will say . . .
That nonsense is said all the time.
 
Messages
634
Location
CA
Thread starter
Originally Posted by dwendt44
Many engines now have 6 or 7 qt oil pans. On the other hand, GDI engines are hard on oil so it's trade off in many respects. My 2¢
But its been proven that even 4% dilution isnt the end of the world and a larger sump would help with this? Maybe some kind of fuel seperator?
 
Messages
3,279
Location
On another site
Originally Posted by ad244
Originally Posted by rooflessVW
Originally Posted by ad244
Originally Posted by tcp71
Initial cost and cost of ownership will both be higher than the competition and you'll lose customers. Never forget, 90+% of drivers don't have a sniff about oil, fluids or their vehicle in general. As long as it survives the warranty period, the manufacturer doesn't care.
It seems to be good enough for Amsoil...?
Amsoil is a drop in the bucket compared to the big boys.
I dont really understand your response...? Drop in the bucket compared to what? What I'm saying is that Amsoil is already saying their oil will do 25,000 miles with the factory filtration & small sump sizes we currently have. Couldn't we get multiple filters & larger sumps for most manufacturers to recommend 25,000-mile OCI or even further?
Short answer is yes. Long answer has already been horse above. Check out harryj's posts, he has taken his Civic to I believe a 40k interval with a bypass setup.
 
Messages
3,279
Location
On another site
Originally Posted by PowerSurge
That would increase manufacturing costs, be ‘more harmful for the environment', and increase the cost of ownership.
How would it be environmentally worse?
 
Messages
2,942
Location
Western S.C.
Originally Posted by JLTD
Originally Posted by PowerSurge
That would increase manufacturing costs, be ‘more harmful for the environment', and increase the cost of ownership.
How would it be environmentally worse?
Bigger pans, more weight, higher fuel consumption, increased oil production, more waste oil to be disposed of (because of folks fixated on short change intervals regardless of circumstances) ...
 
Messages
634
Location
CA
Thread starter
Originally Posted by CR94
[quote=JLTD][quote=PowerSurge](because of folks fixated on short change intervals regardless of circumstances) ...
People change their tunes and get with the times... How often even on here do you see people doing 3,000 mile oil changes like your grandfather did.... Especially in the age of Tesla, I could see people coming to terms with 25,000+ mile oil changes.[/quote][/quote]
 
Top