Lucas Extreme Gun Oil is legit! Almost as legit as

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Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: SKVenture
I would definitly agree that someone like Gray makes a living endorsing products. That does not automatically equate that his opinion/information is false or a lie.


It certainly goes a long way from making it fact. First off it's not, "his opinion / information". He is being paid and told what to say. And in the process help sell the product by using it, and attaching his name to it. Once an individual is paid to endorse a given product, it automatically places enough conflict of interest into the whole equation, that it introduces more than enough skepticism about anything good he might have to say about it. Because at that point he is nothing more than a paid puppet.

And as was already pointed out, these guys sell themselves to the highest bidder by jumping from product to product, based only on what they're getting paid. Not how well the product actually works. With all of the modern automotive oil additives currently out there, do you honestly believe STP is the best one, based only on the fact Richard Petty has been paid to endorse it since the 60's?

Judging by the way some of you are clamoring over this guy, it proves this method of hawking a product certainly has merit. Even though down the road you'll most likely find the same guy telling you how wonderful some other miracle "gun oil" is.


I’m not clamoring over anyone. I’m clamoring over the product. Because from personal experience it works fantastically. It has made an immediate and noticeable difference on the 12 firearms that I own. I have used Mpro7 in my AR bolt carrier group, Remoil on my Python, Wepon shield on my Glock, and pretty much every other commercially available oil including the old Lucas red gun oil on all of my guns at one point or another which include a Berretta 92fs, Colt mustang .380, Mossberg 500, HK P7M10, and others.

I’m not some paid shill and I’m not the new kid on the block when it comes to firearms and their care.

Your dismissing this oil every and any way you can like it slapped your mother. You can just say “it’s not for me” and move along.
 
Originally Posted By: SKVenture
I’m clamoring over the product. Your dismissing this oil every and any way you can like it slapped your mother. You can just say “it’s not for me” and move along.


I'm "dismissing it" because it's nothing but an automotive, or general purpose lubrication product being hyped as an overpriced "gun oil". If you don't believe that, or else need it "proven" to you, that's not my concern. I don't care either way. I know what ATF looks and smells like. And even more impotantly I know what it costs. It just surprises me as someone who, "Is not the new kid on the block when it comes to firearms lubrication", puts so much stock in defending what a paid shrill has to say about such a product.

You're forgetting I bought 2 bottles of this junk. The stuff is what it is. Most likely rebranded automotive products that are being sold at a ridiculous price. (Over $255.00 @ gallon). That alone as Bubba said, is simply nothing but a shady business practice. And yes, I'm going to criticize and dismiss it. Not defend it, or the people who are promoting it.

Whatever Lucas product you use will not hurt your gun. I have said on this forum multiple times that guns in general are not that difficult to lubricate. Most of the time you could take what ever most guys use and rave about, and dump it on the ground when they're not looking, and replace it with motor oil, and they would never know the difference.
 
Bill
What motor oil or trans fluid is blue, so I can compare my Lucas Blue to it?
I just opened my Red Lucas and took a good whiff. It's odor-free.... no transmission fluid smell.

These two are the best I've used. I have given away my MPro-7 and Weaponshield Ws6 sent me. All my pstols see are Lucas and Slip 2000EWL.
 
Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: Ws6
His Lucas Extreme advocacy is shared by Frank Proctor, fwiw, and backed by lab testing. The addpack on the Lucas extreme is also pretty robust and it seems to physically stick around. It's not my favorite, but it's demonstrably a good product.


You went down this same exact road when you were arguing with me tooth and nail that Fireclean wasn't the same as Crisco Canola Oil. Remember that? Now, all of a sudden you've done a 180, and don't like biodegradable organic products for guns because they spoil and gum up. For some reason you take it upon yourself to latch on to these snake oil products, that are marketed by nothing more than paid spokespeople. And then defend them as though you have stock in the company. Until you finally realize that people aren't making up what they've been telling you about them all along.

The proof that Fireclean was nothing more than Crisco was also, "backed by lab testing".

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015/09/13/yes-its-true-fireclean-is-veg-oil/




First of all, FireClean is not Crisco vegetable oil. I have not done a 180 on that, as I am still telling you that no, it's not.
Second, you can pull the data on Lucas and see it has a very high concentration of ZDDP, and you can pull the 3rd party lab testing, and see that it performed pretty darn well in wear prevention (4-ball ASTM-D).
 
Originally Posted By: Triple_Se7en
Bill
What motor oil or trans fluid is blue, so I can compare my Lucas Blue to it?
I just opened my Red Lucas and took a good whiff. It's odor-free.... no transmission fluid smell.

These two are the best I ever used. I have given away my MPro-7 and Weaponshield. All I use are Lucas and Slip 2000EWL in my pistols.


The high load of ZDDP, and the "texture" make is a legit product, IMO. I also note it will not clean off with ISO ETOH. This is the only "gun oil" I have used that won't. It's odd. Not good, not bad, but very unique.
 
Originally Posted By: Ws6
First of all, FireClean is not Crisco vegetable oil.


If it's not, it's about as good of an imposter as you're ever going to find. The exception is it's price. Close to $1,000.00 @ gallon. ($747.50 for 100 ounces).

https://cleanergun.com/collections/frontpage/products/dealer-case-50-bottles

"According to every PhD who looked at the NMR results, FireClean and Canola oil appear to be effectively or nearly identical."

http://www.vuurwapenblog.com/general-opi...and-canola-oil/

Now, if you can find $992.00 @ gallon difference between the 2, be my guest.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Crisco-Pure-C...ashLhRSP50Tg3Qo
 
Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: Ws6
First of all, FireClean is not Crisco vegetable oil.


If it's not, it's about as good of an imposter as you're ever going to find. The exception is it's price. Close to $1,000.00 @ gallon. ($747.50 for 100 ounces).

https://cleanergun.com/collections/frontpage/products/dealer-case-50-bottles

"According to every PhD who looked at the NMR results, FireClean and Canola oil appear to be effectively or nearly identical."

http://www.vuurwapenblog.com/general-opi...and-canola-oil/

Now, if you can find $992.00 @ gallon difference between the 2, be my guest.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Crisco-Pure-C...ashLhRSP50Tg3Qo


You do realize that NMR shows almost every organic oil as "the same", right? Are you going to tell me olive-oil=canola oil=rapeseed oil? They look the same under NMR...

You're basically saying "Everyone who counted the number of tires per vehicle, has stated that the Ferrari LaFerrari, and Kia Sorento, have the same number of tires"

Okay...
 
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Originally Posted By: Ws6
Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: Ws6
First of all, FireClean is not Crisco vegetable oil.


If it's not, it's about as good of an imposter as you're ever going to find. The exception is it's price. Close to $1,000.00 @ gallon. ($747.50 for 100 ounces).

https://cleanergun.com/collections/frontpage/products/dealer-case-50-bottles

"According to every PhD who looked at the NMR results, FireClean and Canola oil appear to be effectively or nearly identical."

http://www.vuurwapenblog.com/general-opi...and-canola-oil/

Now, if you can find $992.00 @ gallon difference between the 2, be my guest.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Crisco-Pure-C...ashLhRSP50Tg3Qo


You do realize that NMR shows almost every organic oil as "the same", right? Are you going to tell me olive-oil=canola oil=rapeseed oil? They look the same under NMR...

You're basically saying "Everyone who counted the number of tires per vehicle, has stated that the Ferrari LaFerrari, and Kia Sorento, have the same number of tires"

Okay...



I'm not so sure about that. The peaks and splits indicate local carbon to something coordination. That is, the bonds. Of course carbon to carbon bonds are extremely common, but the influence of local structure and neighbors affects the outcome.

I don't believe that NMR would indicate any functional additization at such tiny concentrations compared to the bulk.

I think for this whole Lucas thing - someone who really wanted to know would need to do some UOAs at minimum, of gun and suspect automotive products. That wouldn't verify base oil, but it would give some good indication as to additives and voscosities at minimum.
 
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: Ws6
Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: Ws6
First of all, FireClean is not Crisco vegetable oil.


If it's not, it's about as good of an imposter as you're ever going to find. The exception is it's price. Close to $1,000.00 @ gallon. ($747.50 for 100 ounces).

https://cleanergun.com/collections/frontpage/products/dealer-case-50-bottles

"According to every PhD who looked at the NMR results, FireClean and Canola oil appear to be effectively or nearly identical."

http://www.vuurwapenblog.com/general-opi...and-canola-oil/

Now, if you can find $992.00 @ gallon difference between the 2, be my guest.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Crisco-Pure-C...ashLhRSP50Tg3Qo


You do realize that NMR shows almost every organic oil as "the same", right? Are you going to tell me olive-oil=canola oil=rapeseed oil? They look the same under NMR...

You're basically saying "Everyone who counted the number of tires per vehicle, has stated that the Ferrari LaFerrari, and Kia Sorento, have the same number of tires"

Okay...



I'm not so sure about that. The peaks and splits indicate local carbon to something coordination. That is, the bonds. Of course carbon to carbon bonds are extremely common, but the influence of local structure and neighbors affects the outcome.

I don't believe that NMR would indicate any functional additization at such tiny concentrations compared to the bulk.

I think for this whole Lucas thing - someone who really wanted to know would need to do some UOAs at minimum, of gun and suspect automotive products. That wouldn't verify base oil, but it would give some good indication as to additives and voscosities at minimum.


Here are 20 different edible oils.
edible9.gif

http://www.process-nmr.com/edible_oils_nmr_spectra_at_60.htm
 
Originally Posted By: Ws6
Are you going to tell me olive-oil=canola oil=rapeseed oil? They look the same under NMR...


I don't know. Which do you prefer on your semi auto's?
crackmeup2.gif
crackmeup2.gif
 
Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: Ws6
Are you going to tell me olive-oil=canola oil=rapeseed oil? They look the same under NMR...


I don't know. Which do you prefer on your semi auto's?
crackmeup2.gif
crackmeup2.gif



People tried it. The Canola oil didn't do as hot.
 
Originally Posted By: Ws6
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: Ws6


You do realize that NMR shows almost every organic oil as "the same", right? Are you going to tell me olive-oil=canola oil=rapeseed oil? They look the same under NMR...

You're basically saying "Everyone who counted the number of tires per vehicle, has stated that the Ferrari LaFerrari, and Kia Sorento, have the same number of tires"

Okay...



I'm not so sure about that. The peaks and splits indicate local carbon to something coordination. That is, the bonds. Of course carbon to carbon bonds are extremely common, but the influence of local structure and neighbors affects the outcome.

I don't believe that NMR would indicate any functional additization at such tiny concentrations compared to the bulk.

I think for this whole Lucas thing - someone who really wanted to know would need to do some UOAs at minimum, of gun and suspect automotive products. That wouldn't verify base oil, but it would give some good indication as to additives and voscosities at minimum.


Here are 20 different edible oils.
edible9.gif

http://www.process-nmr.com/edible_oils_nmr_spectra_at_60.htm


That's proton NMR of fatty acids. The organic (carboxylic) acid functional group is established. It's an R-(C(=O)-OH). Different animals might have different levels of saturation or bond structure (where a double bond may be along the subsequent chain), but I suspect that comes out in the wash other than secondary or ternary carbons next to the acid functional group. And since it's proton NMR, it's looking at the huge number of hydrogens that replace carbon-carbon or other bonds. Only the -OH shift is necessarily unique compared to the various C-H options, of which there are a ton of variations but they're all kind of the same along a carbon chain. This isn't even looking at carbon itself. This isn't a crystal structure that is repetitive.

So that result is expected and I'm not sure it indicates anything. It is to be expected if looking at multiple fatty acids that would only be differentiated by length or some bonds on a chain.

Thus:

Originally Posted By: JHZR2


I don't believe that NMR would indicate any functional additization at such tiny concentrations compared to the bulk.



I don't really have a dog in the fight. Ive not used either and don't intend to. But I'm not sure that the tools employed give an appropriate picture.
 
Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: Triple_Se7en
What motor oil or trans fluid is blue?


They can dye anything any color.


grin.gif


Olje-Husqvarna-dvotaktno-XP-1L.jpg

STIHL%202%20STROKE.3.jpg
 
Originally Posted By: Kamele0N
Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: Triple_Se7en
What motor oil or trans fluid is blue?


They can dye anything any color.


grin.gif


Olje-Husqvarna-dvotaktno-XP-1L.jpg

STIHL%202%20STROKE.3.jpg



That's not blue.... it's almost black.
The back of that jug is blue, but if that's blue oil, then why is the front oil and top fill-cap oil a different blackish color?
 
My new GSG 1911-22 came with a Lucas oil sample and it worked fine as long as it lasted. Back to Benelli samples now.
 
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Originally Posted By: Ws6
You're basically saying "Everyone who counted the number of tires per vehicle, has stated that the Ferrari LaFerrari, and Kia Sorento, have the same number of tires".


No, that's not what I'm saying. That's what you're saying. So don't put it in quotation marks. And it's a idiotic analogy. This stuff, (Fireclean) is about as identical to Canola Oil as you can get. As the article said, every PHD who looked at it said it was nearly identical. Whatever differences that you could possibly come up with, can't and don't justify it's insane price. Nor will these minute differences change anything as far as using it to lubricate guns.

Now of course you're going to argue, you always do. But that in itself changes nothing. This garbage is nothing but overpriced organic plant based oil, period. If someone cooked your French fries in it, you wouldn't be able to tell the difference. Any more than if someone dumped out your bottle of "Fireclean", and refilled it with Crisco.
 
Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: Ws6
You're basically saying "Everyone who counted the number of tires per vehicle, has stated that the Ferrari LaFerrari, and Kia Sorento, have the same number of tires".


No, that's not what I'm saying. That's what you're saying. So don't put it in quotation marks. And it's a idiotic analogy. This stuff, (Fireclean) is about as identical to Canola Oil as you can get. As the article said, every PHD who looked at it said it was nearly identical. Whatever differences that you could possibly come up with, can't and don't justify it's insane price. Nor will these minute differences change anything as far as using it to lubricate guns.

Now of course you're going to argue, you always do. But that in itself changes nothing. This garbage is nothing but overpriced organic plant based oil, period. If someone cooked your French fries in it, you wouldn't be able to tell the difference. Any more than if someone dumped out your bottle of "Fireclean", and refilled it with Crisco.



IMO that logic is like thinking that a 99c SA quart of oil is the same as $4 PYB, because the NMR matches. The cost may be somewhat in base stocks, but a lot is actually in blended additives.

Or like saying that a free glass of water is the same as a bottle of coke, which is a hundred times more expensive.

Are the tools used to identify the active, minority constituents correct?

I'm not so sure.

People like to hand wave that PhDs looked at something and agree. Great. But if the tools are wrong, it may not be telling them or you anything.

I can't say who is right or wrong, but the techniques strike me as not granting the full picture.

If an additized crisco never went rancid or gummy, but required an expensive additive at 0.5% to the crisco, would it make the product bad or good?

You're capitalizing on the base stock, without the tools or insight to say whether the "secret sauce" is present or a cost driver. That's not the whole picture. And an MSDS or similar will not state this...
 
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
IMO that logic is like thinking that a 99c SA quart of oil is the same as $4 PYB, because the NMR matches. The cost may be somewhat in base stocks, but a lot is actually in blended additives.


Do you honestly want to compare this over priced garbage to an established oil companies products? Who has billions of dollars in assets, and has has been around for decades? And that requires it's products to be tested to meet or exceed car manufacturers specifications? That's ridiculous.

"Fireclean" is nothing but a gimmick gun lube product. Just like most of what Lucas peddles to gun owners. Of which there are literally hundreds that have come and gone from the market. "Frog Lube" is yet another. (It has been proven to have vast similarities to biodegradable roller coaster track lube). Sure, you can find merit in it's use if you look hard enough. But I can also say the same thing about saw dust and dog feces.

Gun people are a lot like car guys. They're attracted to whatever is the new, "wonder lube of the week". In that regard many are like sheep being led to slaughter. At least from an economic standpoint. They're there for the picking, because many will line up to try anything new that pops up on the market. Especially if it's tied into a good promotional ad campaign.

The "gun oil" market is much like the automotive oil additive market in that same regard. In that it is very lucrative, and attracts the creation of dozens of fraudulent overpriced products. Most of which cannot be proven one way or the other to actually work. Or be of any actual benefit. Lucas is heavily entrenched in both.

All I'm saying is with a product like "Fireclean" there is so much similarity with it to a common cooking oil, it actually becomes a complete joke in trying to defend it's very existence as something that is actually worthwhile to lubricate a firearm with..... Especially when you factor in it's idiotic, rip off pricing.
 
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