Looks like I got a '08 TOYOTA OIL BURNER! (pics)
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Originally Posted By: rkpatt
I am shopping for a Toyota Matrix which has that engine. What some quick ways to check for possible excessive oil consumption issues?
(blowby out the oil cap,leaking ctank seales, ect ?) - Thanks
In theory any motor could be a leaker so indeed get under it. But with these... Its rings and oil drain holes in the pistons clogging up.
I'd check maintainence records to see if it had regular changes (not an indicstor it doesnt burn oil... Just an indicstor that it isnt a disaster) if she got synthetic from new somehow... Thats good!
Other ways to check are:
Look at the spark plugs
If the oil is clean and the car is supposedly 4,000miles into a 5,000 mile oil change... They are adding oil=burner.
I am shopping for a Toyota Matrix which has that engine. What some quick ways to check for possible excessive oil consumption issues?
(blowby out the oil cap,leaking ctank seales, ect ?) - Thanks
In theory any motor could be a leaker so indeed get under it. But with these... Its rings and oil drain holes in the pistons clogging up.
I'd check maintainence records to see if it had regular changes (not an indicstor it doesnt burn oil... Just an indicstor that it isnt a disaster) if she got synthetic from new somehow... Thats good!
Other ways to check are:
Look at the spark plugs
If the oil is clean and the car is supposedly 4,000miles into a 5,000 mile oil change... They are adding oil=burner.
Originally Posted By: dblshock
I'd think a compression leak down test would expose it, pretty easy to do too.
Not so sure on that. Perhaps if the oil control rings are truly "stuck", but I've mostly read that these burning motirs have good compression and leak down values but do still burn the oil.
I'd think a compression leak down test would expose it, pretty easy to do too.
Not so sure on that. Perhaps if the oil control rings are truly "stuck", but I've mostly read that these burning motirs have good compression and leak down values but do still burn the oil.
Originally Posted By: rkpatt
I am shopping for a Toyota Matrix which has that engine. What some quick ways to check for possible excessive oil consumption issues?
(blowby out the oil cap,leaking ctank seales, ect ?) - Thanks
Most of them have the 1.8 liter engine. A few have the 2.4. Pull the oil dipstick when the car is cold preferably and check the level first. Look at tailpipe and check for black soot. Have someone start the car, preferably after it has sat awhile and check for a blue puff of smoke on start up.
I am shopping for a Toyota Matrix which has that engine. What some quick ways to check for possible excessive oil consumption issues?
(blowby out the oil cap,leaking ctank seales, ect ?) - Thanks
Most of them have the 1.8 liter engine. A few have the 2.4. Pull the oil dipstick when the car is cold preferably and check the level first. Look at tailpipe and check for black soot. Have someone start the car, preferably after it has sat awhile and check for a blue puff of smoke on start up.
I would get the bottom end rebuilt. I would bet the reason it's using this much oil is because at some point someone didn't check it until the oil light came on. If that happens a few times (good chance it did with that much consumption) the cylinders are probably scored. I would skip the head rebuild too, but if all you have to pay is 900 bucks it would be tempting.
Do you really have to pay $900? I'd decline and you may find them lowering their price. I do this often and always seem to get lower prices.....
The serpentine belt gets removed anyway so you pay the part if needed. $900 is just price of fixing head with profit attached since Toyota is paying for remove/reinstall of head to get at bottom end.
The serpentine belt gets removed anyway so you pay the part if needed. $900 is just price of fixing head with profit attached since Toyota is paying for remove/reinstall of head to get at bottom end.
Originally Posted By: SumpChump
I found myself a nice 2008 Scion xB with 130k and the 2.4L 2AZ-FE, "potential oil burner" motor.
SO in anticipation I call the dealer and ask the protocol. It's a extended "good faith" coverage item done by Toyota So I have until the 10 year or 150k mile mark.
He says they seal her up for about 1k miles (unless the customer KNOWS she'd fail dry before then) and then check it after the 1k miles. Then you get free pistons and rings.
In my opinion, you should have the oil consumption test done now.
Here's why:
Fist off, once the test is complete, you will know for sure, that you will or won't qualify for the work to be done, right now. If the car doesn't burn enough, you will get another chance to do the test again (or several times) before you run out the 150k clock.
Second, if the car does burn enough oil to qualify for the piston and ring replacement, and the work goes without any additional issues, and it cures the oil consumption issue, you then don't have to worry about all this extra oil you have to keep replacing in the engine. You save money from now, AND the projected lifespan of your engine actually increases.
Third, if you get the work done now, and yet it still burns oil, you are still guaranteed to the 150k mile mark. You can get it done a second time, and I would recommend trying a different dealer, who probably has a more successful engine rebuilder on staff.
If it was one of my cars burning oil at that rate, I would schedule the consumption test setup on Friday morning, then I would hop in my car, and drive 500 miles east to Ogden, KS, spend the night, then drive back home. The next day, car would be back in the shop to confirm the oil level, and proceed with the repair.
Somehow I've never managed to wind up with a car that burns oil during the warranty period. Life is just so unfair.
BC.
I found myself a nice 2008 Scion xB with 130k and the 2.4L 2AZ-FE, "potential oil burner" motor.
SO in anticipation I call the dealer and ask the protocol. It's a extended "good faith" coverage item done by Toyota So I have until the 10 year or 150k mile mark.
He says they seal her up for about 1k miles (unless the customer KNOWS she'd fail dry before then) and then check it after the 1k miles. Then you get free pistons and rings.
In my opinion, you should have the oil consumption test done now.
Here's why:
Fist off, once the test is complete, you will know for sure, that you will or won't qualify for the work to be done, right now. If the car doesn't burn enough, you will get another chance to do the test again (or several times) before you run out the 150k clock.
Second, if the car does burn enough oil to qualify for the piston and ring replacement, and the work goes without any additional issues, and it cures the oil consumption issue, you then don't have to worry about all this extra oil you have to keep replacing in the engine. You save money from now, AND the projected lifespan of your engine actually increases.
Third, if you get the work done now, and yet it still burns oil, you are still guaranteed to the 150k mile mark. You can get it done a second time, and I would recommend trying a different dealer, who probably has a more successful engine rebuilder on staff.
If it was one of my cars burning oil at that rate, I would schedule the consumption test setup on Friday morning, then I would hop in my car, and drive 500 miles east to Ogden, KS, spend the night, then drive back home. The next day, car would be back in the shop to confirm the oil level, and proceed with the repair.
Somehow I've never managed to wind up with a car that burns oil during the warranty period. Life is just so unfair.
BC.
Originally Posted By: dblshock
both I guess, but mostly stone cold..don't even have to wipe that way.
WRONG! You have to wipe every time! Newer engines have an o-ring seal at the dipstick which does not allow venting. When you drive the oil level in the pan lowers due to the amount being pumped into the upper engine, while the engine is running, oil in the dipstick tube drains out. When you shut off the engine, due to the seal at the top of the dipstick tube, the oil level in the dipstick tube will not rise up to the level in the pan. At the very least you need to lift the dipstick up an inch or so to break the seal and give it a 5 or 10 seconds for the oil to rise up into the dipstick tube for an accurate check.
both I guess, but mostly stone cold..don't even have to wipe that way.
WRONG! You have to wipe every time! Newer engines have an o-ring seal at the dipstick which does not allow venting. When you drive the oil level in the pan lowers due to the amount being pumped into the upper engine, while the engine is running, oil in the dipstick tube drains out. When you shut off the engine, due to the seal at the top of the dipstick tube, the oil level in the dipstick tube will not rise up to the level in the pan. At the very least you need to lift the dipstick up an inch or so to break the seal and give it a 5 or 10 seconds for the oil to rise up into the dipstick tube for an accurate check.
Originally Posted By: another Todd
Originally Posted By: dblshock
both I guess, but mostly stone cold..don't even have to wipe that way.
WRONG! You have to wipe every time! Newer engines have an o-ring seal at the dipstick which does not allow venting. When you drive the oil level in the pan lowers due to the amount being pumped into the upper engine, while the engine is running, oil in the dipstick tube drains out. When you shut off the engine, due to the seal at the top of the dipstick tube, the oil level in the dipstick tube will not rise up to the level in the pan. At the very least you need to lift the dipstick up an inch or so to break the seal and give it a 5 or 10 seconds for the oil to rise up into the dipstick tube for an accurate check.
Well, that's getting right down to the nub, thanks.
Originally Posted By: dblshock
both I guess, but mostly stone cold..don't even have to wipe that way.
WRONG! You have to wipe every time! Newer engines have an o-ring seal at the dipstick which does not allow venting. When you drive the oil level in the pan lowers due to the amount being pumped into the upper engine, while the engine is running, oil in the dipstick tube drains out. When you shut off the engine, due to the seal at the top of the dipstick tube, the oil level in the dipstick tube will not rise up to the level in the pan. At the very least you need to lift the dipstick up an inch or so to break the seal and give it a 5 or 10 seconds for the oil to rise up into the dipstick tube for an accurate check.
Well, that's getting right down to the nub, thanks.
'He says they seal her up for about 1k miles (unless the customer KNOWS she'd fail dry before then) and then check it after the 1k miles. Then you get free pistons and rings. ONLY .... NO water pump, no nothing else. AND if they discover something else.... they don't put her back together until you pay.'
I got a little problem with that attitude toward the issue, I might contact Toyota about the way this solution is being articulated..this chump should do the repair and keep the terrorizing in his pocket.
...and I have a problem with the PO had he not mentioned this issue prior to your payment to him...in the past had he been to a Toyota Service Center inquiring?
I got a little problem with that attitude toward the issue, I might contact Toyota about the way this solution is being articulated..this chump should do the repair and keep the terrorizing in his pocket.
...and I have a problem with the PO had he not mentioned this issue prior to your payment to him...in the past had he been to a Toyota Service Center inquiring?
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I'd skip on the top end rebuild. I mean, let's say the valve seals are bad. As long as they go bad w/in the warranty they get to do 'em for free, right? Otherwise, all those parts can be done later on. The water pump and belt, ok might as well on those. But how many 2AZ-FE's have bad guide seals?
Originally Posted By: dblshock
'He says they seal her up for about 1k miles (unless the customer KNOWS she'd fail dry before then) and then check it after the 1k miles. Then you get free pistons and rings. ONLY .... NO water pump, no nothing else. AND if they discover something else.... they don't put her back together until you pay.'
I got a little problem with that attitude toward the issue, I might contact Toyota about the way this solution is being articulated..this chump should do the repair and keep the terrorizing in his pocket.
Exactly and it would make me VERY concerned about the likelihood that they would break things so that it REQUIRED that extra 900$ service...watch out for exactly that kind of attitude from service personnel. If it were me I would call Toyota Motor and indicate how the repair under recall was presented to you and see what they say, it seems sleazy to me.
That being said I wouldn't think of going to that store no matter what Toyota said, they are going to screw you.
'He says they seal her up for about 1k miles (unless the customer KNOWS she'd fail dry before then) and then check it after the 1k miles. Then you get free pistons and rings. ONLY .... NO water pump, no nothing else. AND if they discover something else.... they don't put her back together until you pay.'
I got a little problem with that attitude toward the issue, I might contact Toyota about the way this solution is being articulated..this chump should do the repair and keep the terrorizing in his pocket.
Exactly and it would make me VERY concerned about the likelihood that they would break things so that it REQUIRED that extra 900$ service...watch out for exactly that kind of attitude from service personnel. If it were me I would call Toyota Motor and indicate how the repair under recall was presented to you and see what they say, it seems sleazy to me.
That being said I wouldn't think of going to that store no matter what Toyota said, they are going to screw you.
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Originally Posted By: Silverado12
I would get the bottom end rebuilt. I would bet the reason it's using this much oil is because at some point someone didn't check it until the oil light came on. If that happens a few times (good chance it did with that much consumption) the cylinders are probably scored. I would skip the head rebuild too, but if all you have to pay is 900 bucks it would be tempting.
Man that is a depressing possibility... Scored cylinders....eesh. Maybe I should get a nice video scope and pull a sparkplug or would it be nearly impossible to see "ok versus bad" levels of scoring with a bore cam?
I would get the bottom end rebuilt. I would bet the reason it's using this much oil is because at some point someone didn't check it until the oil light came on. If that happens a few times (good chance it did with that much consumption) the cylinders are probably scored. I would skip the head rebuild too, but if all you have to pay is 900 bucks it would be tempting.
Man that is a depressing possibility... Scored cylinders....eesh. Maybe I should get a nice video scope and pull a sparkplug or would it be nearly impossible to see "ok versus bad" levels of scoring with a bore cam?
$1K for all of that work (new pistons, rings, w/p, belt, valve seals) is a steal. I would be more than happy to pay it all day long.
Remember, this type of work is not going to be handed to a "C" tech or a lube tech to do. An A or B tech will be handling it.
Remember, this type of work is not going to be handed to a "C" tech or a lube tech to do. An A or B tech will be handling it.
Originally Posted By: The Critic
$1K for all of that work (new pistons, rings, w/p, belt, valve seals) is a steal. I would be more than happy to pay it all day long.
Remember, this type of work is not going to be handed to a "C" tech or a lube tech to do. An A or B tech will be handling it.
But what if there's cylinder wall damage? Which I would think there's a good chance of.
$1K for all of that work (new pistons, rings, w/p, belt, valve seals) is a steal. I would be more than happy to pay it all day long.
Remember, this type of work is not going to be handed to a "C" tech or a lube tech to do. An A or B tech will be handling it.
But what if there's cylinder wall damage? Which I would think there's a good chance of.
Originally Posted By: MarkM66
But what if there's cylinder wall damage? Which I would think there's a good chance of.
THAT is my biggest concern. I'm sure they'd smugly come out and announce that they cant't or perhaps even WON'T put it back together unless I pay and additional $x,xxx to have it bored and even then ... they don't have oversized pistons for the tsb, just normal size.
Man, I have GOT to know if they are scored or not one nut can come off that engine as it'd be a total replacement and boy would they happily gouge me at any dealer who has me by the balls with an engine in pieces. "Sir, these are the facts, you decide, we are sorry that we now have found that the complimentary TSB cannot be applied, we'd be happy to put a reman engine in for you at just $x,xxx"
But what if there's cylinder wall damage? Which I would think there's a good chance of.
THAT is my biggest concern. I'm sure they'd smugly come out and announce that they cant't or perhaps even WON'T put it back together unless I pay and additional $x,xxx to have it bored and even then ... they don't have oversized pistons for the tsb, just normal size.
Man, I have GOT to know if they are scored or not one nut can come off that engine as it'd be a total replacement and boy would they happily gouge me at any dealer who has me by the balls with an engine in pieces. "Sir, these are the facts, you decide, we are sorry that we now have found that the complimentary TSB cannot be applied, we'd be happy to put a reman engine in for you at just $x,xxx"
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