Let's talk BMW's

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Originally Posted By: MCompact
The "eta" engine found in the 528e and 325e was designed to develop power at lower engine speeds than regular BMW engines. BMW phased them out by the late '80s. Not a bad engine, but not what most enthusiasts expected at the time. Me, I love the M42 in my ti; it comes alive at 4000 rpm...

You're right, and you reveal something unclear about my last post: what's typical about BMWs compared to their peers is that they are much faster on the highway than the feel stoplight-to-stoplight. I didn't mean to say that they tend to have low redlines or develop power at low RPM; something like the opposite tends to be true.
 
Originally Posted By: 45ACP
1. Anyone remember the Acura Legend called a Sterling 826 and 827 in the US? I have always been intrigued, and would take a look atone if it popped up. They only cost~$2000-$3000 anyway. They are from 1987... ? .. what can you tell me about this car.


The Sterling was a U.S. version of the Rover 800, itself a cousin of the Acura (Honda) Legend.

It was an attempt by Rover to reenter the U.S. market under a different name, to put some distance between them, and the previous, poorly-received P6 and SD1.

Unfortunately, the new cars carried on the same tradition of poor quality, niche appeal, and were quickly forgotten.

Originally Posted By: 45ACP
2. BMW put the engine in the Mclaren F1.


BMW stepped in only after Honda declined Gordon Murray's invitation to provide the F1's engine.

Paul Rosche and his gang stepped up to the challenge, and the S70 lumps won Le Mans in '96 in the F1 GTR, and again in '99 in the V12 LMR prototype.

Originally Posted By: 45ACP
4. BMW now owns and manufactures Rolls Royce.


Not quite, there is a distinction--Rolls-Royce PLC owns the trademark, and licenses BMW to manufacture cars under that nameplate.

When the operation that was making R-R/Bentley for years was put up for sale, VW outbid BMW. But, much to the former's chagrin, BMW took advantage of a pre-existing relationship, and the legalities of the situation and persuaded R-R to grant it the license instead.
 
Quote:
Not quite

BMW sold the car trademark to BMW.
Quote:
In 1998, this license was withdrawn when the motorcar trademarks were sold by Rolls-Royce plc to a BMW company, now known as Rolls-Royce Motor Cars Ltd. This company today manufactures luxury automobiles and accessories in the name of Rolls-Royce from its headquarters in Goodwood, England.


http://www.rolls-royce.com/about/heritage/stories/brand_history.jsp
 
Originally Posted By: Carmudgeon
Originally Posted By: 45ACP
1. Anyone remember the Acura Legend called a Sterling 826 and 827 in the US? I have always been intrigued, and would take a look atone if it popped up. They only cost~$2000-$3000 anyway. They are from 1987... ? .. what can you tell me about this car.


The Sterling was a U.S. version of the Rover 800, itself a cousin of the Acura (Honda) Legend.

It was an attempt by Rover to reenter the U.S. market under a different name, to put some distance between them, and the previous, poorly-received P6 and SD1.

Unfortunately, the new cars carried on the same tradition of poor quality, niche appeal, and were quickly forgotten.



The Rover/Sterling had electrical problems not related to the Honda/Acura powertrain. It also had corrosion problems much worse than any Honda/Acura vehicle. These are not unique problems. They are pretty typical of English cars from that time. Add in overheating and you've got a lot of the problems that plagued Jaguars from that era

Buyers soon realized that Acura Legends did nearly everything as well as a Sterling 825 and just bought those. The Sterling was allegedly sprung a little firmer with sportier damping. Most drivers wouldn't notice that though. The Acura had arguably a better luxury car interior than the Audi 5000 or Volvo 700 series.

By 1989 Lexus and Infiniti made their debut (Mazda's Amati line was stillborn). This caused BMW's and Mercedes-Benz's U.S. sales figures to drop 29% and 19%, respectively and undoubtedly dealt a death blow to Rover in the United States. Even with Honda improving the marque's electrical problems and it's corrosion resistance, the die had been cast.
 
Originally Posted By: Spazdog
These are not unique problems. They are pretty typical of English cars from that time. Add in overheating and you've got a lot of the problems that plagued Jaguars from that era


I grew up in a household that owned European cars exclusively, including British, Italian, and French marques, and later graduating to Swedes and Germans.

I'm fully aware of the foibles of that era, and those cars, having seen my share of British Leyland, Lucas, and Girling parts boxes in the garage, and being drafted as a garage assistant.
 
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
You're right, and you reveal something unclear about my last post: what's typical about BMWs compared to their peers is that they are much faster on the highway than the feel stoplight-to-stoplight. I didn't mean to say that they tend to have low redlines or develop power at low RPM; something like the opposite tends to be true.


My friends M3 is very typical in this regard. It doesn't really impress you much until your over 100 mph!

But seriously, you need to drive one of the 3 series with the turbo six. Whether a twin turbo or a single, they make power at VERY low engine speeds and go like heck.
 
Quote:

I grew up in a household that owned European cars exclusively

Same here. I owned a lot of old Brit stuff over the years and loved/hated every one of them. The SD1 3500 Vanden Plas was one of my favorites, it was surprisingly trouble free.
The interior was almost equal to my other Euro favorites the Citroen CX Pallas and SM which i kept for years and had no trouble at all with either.
The seats were not up to Citroen level on the Rover, the Citroen's had high end Recaro OEM, they could be described a firm body hugging arm chair, the Rover had just arm chairs.
To this day i never felt a nicer, more controlled and comfortable seat in any car at any price than that in the CX and SM.
 
Originally Posted By: Carmudgeon
Originally Posted By: Spazdog
These are not unique problems. They are pretty typical of English cars from that time. Add in overheating and you've got a lot of the problems that plagued Jaguars from that era


I grew up in a household that owned European cars exclusively, including British, Italian, and French marques, and later graduating to Swedes and Germans.

I'm fully aware of the foibles of that era, and those cars, having seen my share of British Leyland, Lucas, and Girling parts boxes in the garage, and being drafted as a garage assistant.


I've had plenty of European cars myself. I considered myself quite the Anglophile at one time.
My Spitfire had one little rust spot on the rocker panel. It was always a North Texas car and shouldn't have had any rust, but it did. Otherwise, it had a few niggling little problems with the O/D switch and wiring, headlight switch, etc...but no major electrical faults and for only having 3 main bearings the little cast iron OHV tractor engine was remarkably solid. Never overheated.
My XJ6 was someone else's Chevrolet V8 conversion. It was very pretty, the engine ran well, and everything else was garbage. The fool thing was a timelessly classic shaped money pit. The previous owner was good enough to have corrected most of the rust that again, should not have been there at all.
It was cool taking the Jaguar out on a date to a restaurant with valet parking. Seeing my car polished up and parked right alongside various German and Japanese high luxury cars in front. And the hope that if it was going to finally self-immolate, that it would do it while the insured valet company's driver was in it doing something he's not supposed to be doing. But those were the times the XJ6/Chevy would behave and things would work.

The only other N TX cars I ever had that had rust were my Air-Cooled VWs. Invariably the battery tray would be corroded, rusted and barely able to hold a battery at all, and my Chevette. Front shock towers showed significant rust. Rest of the car was fine.
21.gif
 
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
But seriously, you need to drive one of the 3 series with the turbo six. Whether a twin turbo or a single, they make power at VERY low engine speeds and go like heck.

Done, and I agree with your impressions.

I still think the 255 hp incarnation of the NA 3.0 was the best non-M 3-series engine, honestly -- at least IMO. But it's true, the turbo six is pretty potent at any RPM.
 
All the HPFP fiascos in the turbo 6 and no dipstick and the mass-market looking interior/dash/cockpit shied me away from the E92...

Hence my choice of a low mile E46 ZHP...

Someday when the ZHP is tired and if i MUST replace it, i might take a chance in a (then) low mile E92 ... but not now...

And I have no hopes for the F30 or whatever...it's even uglier than the E9x nside and out...
 
Originally Posted By: 97tbird
And I have no hopes for the F30 or whatever...it's even uglier than the E9x nside and out...

Hahaha.... I actually think F30 is an improvement over E90.
smile.gif
 
Originally Posted By: 97tbird
F30: GASP !! 4 banger BMW
eek.gif

with a screw....but still - 3'er sans 6 seems...weird...

A 6-cylinder turbo is still available, but yeah, I'd prefer an N/A 6 instead.
 
I am lusting after the rather quirky looking new 1'er coupe hatch thing...despite the rather ugly nose.
But somehow I always envision wifey in it. Not me.

(never gonna happen as wifey will keep driving that Energizer bunny Elantra)
 
Originally Posted By: Trav

Same here. I owned a lot of old Brit stuff over the years and loved/hated every one of them. The SD1 3500 Vanden Plas was one of my favorites, it was surprisingly trouble free.

To this day i never felt a nicer, more controlled and comfortable seat in any car at any price than that in the CX and SM.


We had a P6 3500S, which was a car you'd never see yourself coming and going on the road. Lots of DIY on that car.

The French seem to have a knack for really supple and plush riding cars, but with a sense of control, and without the wallow of Big Detroit Iron. Our Pug lacked the hydraulics of the old Citröens, but was still one of the most comfortable cars we've owned.

Originally Posted By: 97tbird
All the HPFP fiascos in the turbo 6 and no dipstick and the mass-market looking interior/dash/cockpit shied me away from the E92...

And I have no hopes for the F30 or whatever...it's even uglier than the E9x nside and out...


Most criticism of the Bangle-era designs mostly centered on the exteriors, but the interior designs of his reign are easily the worst in BMW's history, poor both aesthetically and functionally. The E46 you chose instead had a great blend of luxury and ergonomics. The E36 was more cockpit-like and less luxurious, but had horrible quality. The E90? Abbreviated instruments, cheap pop-out cupholders, and a choice of the ugly double-binnacle nav, or exceedingly plain non-nav dash. The interior is one of the major reasons why I'd avoid a E9x as well, considering one sees the interior much more than the exterior.

In the Bangle era, the butts were horrible, and the bisected-kidneys and the frowning front fascias were unattractive as well. A lot of the details were just wrong.

However, the Bangle Butt aside, many of the themes that Bangle advocated have become mainstream, so perhaps he was prescient in some ways.

Since von Hooydonk was credited with the designs that eventually became the E63/64/65/66, I used to think that he should have been assigned more direct blame than Bangle.

But, he's still there, and Bangle isn't, so perhaps I underestimated Bangle's influence. The current designs are improved, but sometimes either too conservative and dull (6er), or too bold (1er). I think the 5er is the best, most balanced in the current lineup, though it is saddled by the flat face phenomenon that is apparently dictated by pedestrian safety regulations. It's a handsome car that manages to convey a sense of sportiness and luxury, and not look like a rolling banana (hello, M-B!).

As far as owning any modern BMW, or other German luxury brand, I shudder to think at what these cars will be like to maintain and repair when they're out of warranty and reach old age.
 
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Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
But seriously, you need to drive one of the 3 series with the turbo six. Whether a twin turbo or a single, they make power at VERY low engine speeds and go like heck.

Done, and I agree with your impressions.

I still think the 255 hp incarnation of the NA 3.0 was the best non-M 3-series engine, honestly -- at least IMO. But it's true, the turbo six is pretty potent at any RPM.


S52US of the last of the E36 series? Please, be clear. There were several S50 and S52 variants (m52?), including some years that the US version had more HP than the Euro of the same year (S52US?) Its been awhile. BMW had the 333HP 3.2L I6 in the early 2000s M3, but that was an E46 not E36.

Also, a "m3 engine" put in an E30 is faster than 90% of cars on the road, then OR now. It is a swap.

I also saw an E30 sqwap with a Ford 5.0 mustang engine in it.. and cried.
 
Originally Posted By: 45ACP
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
I still think the 255 hp incarnation of the NA 3.0 was the best non-M 3-series engine, honestly -- at least IMO. But it's true, the turbo six is pretty potent at any RPM.


S52US of the last of the E36 series? Please, be clear. There were several S50 and S52 variants (m52?), including some years that the US version had more HP than the Euro of the same year (S52US?) Its been awhile. BMW had the 333HP 3.2L I6 in the early 2000s M3, but that was an E46 not E36.

There is only one naturally aspirated 3.0L non-M inline-6 that makes 255 hp.
wink.gif


(the N52B30 in the 2006 330i)
 
Originally Posted By: d00df00d

There is only one naturally aspirated 3.0L non-M inline-6 that makes 255 hp.
wink.gif


(the N52B30 in the 2006 330i)

And in the 2006-2007 530i.
 
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