I see you mark the filters with the date. Do you change them by how long they are on the equipment or hours?
ROD
ROD
Laws of Phisics -- Fram Ultra
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Date. Most equipment is run seasonally. The trucks and equipment are absolutely flogged all summer. They get quick "tune-ups" in the winter. Some engines have thousands of hours with ridiculous, over-the-top idling. There is zero time to be dead lining equipment in the summer. No oil or oil filter related issues even with filters a couple fanboys here think have design flaws.
Originally Posted By: rrounds
I see you mark the filters with the date. Do you change them by how long they are on the equipment or hours?
ROD
Originally Posted By: rrounds
I see you mark the filters with the date. Do you change them by how long they are on the equipment or hours?
ROD
Originally Posted By: Oil Changer
He would get mad at me for wasting his time and tell me to keep using the one that had been protecting his equipment for decades without issue. Be sure all you want. I'm sure you're wrong. If salesmen come to the office, they don't get sent to him, they get pawned off on us. That's how I just scored a couple of nice CAT hats last week.
I would have to agree because arguing over efficiency ratings of oil filters is stupid. The air filter is 10 million times more important than the lowly oil filter.
You didn't answer my question. You go do some research on the efficiency ratings of all those high class commercila heavy-duty oil filters you're using on that equipment and you'll see they are very high efficiency. I already deciphered the beta ratios printed on that oil filter can you posted earlier. 99.5% @ 19 microns is very high efficiency. So why do you suppose they aren't 50% @ 20 microns? ... because filters that bad wouldn't protect that equipment very well. You missed the whole point and are only focused on trying to stomp on guys who use the Ultra ... another "fanboy" move. LoL
And yes, of course air filters are very important. IMO, using both high efficiency oil and air filters will give you the best protection. Not too keen on using just a high efficiency air filter and a dog of an oil filter ... why?
He would get mad at me for wasting his time and tell me to keep using the one that had been protecting his equipment for decades without issue. Be sure all you want. I'm sure you're wrong. If salesmen come to the office, they don't get sent to him, they get pawned off on us. That's how I just scored a couple of nice CAT hats last week.
I would have to agree because arguing over efficiency ratings of oil filters is stupid. The air filter is 10 million times more important than the lowly oil filter.
You didn't answer my question. You go do some research on the efficiency ratings of all those high class commercila heavy-duty oil filters you're using on that equipment and you'll see they are very high efficiency. I already deciphered the beta ratios printed on that oil filter can you posted earlier. 99.5% @ 19 microns is very high efficiency. So why do you suppose they aren't 50% @ 20 microns? ... because filters that bad wouldn't protect that equipment very well. You missed the whole point and are only focused on trying to stomp on guys who use the Ultra ... another "fanboy" move. LoL
And yes, of course air filters are very important. IMO, using both high efficiency oil and air filters will give you the best protection. Not too keen on using just a high efficiency air filter and a dog of an oil filter ... why?
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Z06,
Quote:
You didn't answer my question.
That's funny coming from you! What about these questions:
Quote:
Z06,
What's the difference between ISO 16889 and ISO 4845-12?
Also, why did you never respond to ISO55000's post/question to you?
Quote:
You go do some research on the efficiency ratings of all those high class commercila heavy-duty oil filters you're using on that equipment and you'll see they are very high efficiency.
LOL! MANY of those "high class commercial" oil filters you reference cross to many automotive, gasoline applications as well.
Quote:
I already deciphered the beta ratios printed on that oil filter can you posted earlier. 99.5% @ 19 microns is very high efficiency.
Before that can be trusted you need to answer the question you ignored: What's the difference between ISO 16889 and ISO 4845-12?
Quote:
So why do you suppose they aren't 50% @ 20 microns? ...
From what I know from experience and from what I learned reading these threads and the links provided, I believe (and this is just my opinion) that WIX, exactly like BP/Castrol, simply list industry minimum or standard. Can't be sued for that and they're free to design change without the hassle of updating their website everyday to appease fanatical fanboys. It was you that said your secret lab tested the media at 95+ or whatever it was. I don't see you getting all riled up over Castrol's useless online PDS but you are not a fanboy of Castrol. Yet you are locked in to this 50% at 20 micron thing but have no verifiable proof.
Quote:
because filters that bad wouldn't protect that equipment very well. You missed the whole point and are only focused on trying to stomp on guys who use the Ultra ... another "fanboy" move. LoL
Wow, talk about contradictory! WIX filters are installed on engines and equipment that cost more than you will make in your entire working lifetime. They protect very well under obscene conditions. I never see Fram on these things, ever.
You will never find me saying a bad word about the Ultra. In fact, I've said it appears to be a fine filter. I base that opinion on things other than it's online, posted efficiency rating. I don't care who uses what or why. The only design flaw around here is your methodology.
Quote:
You didn't answer my question.
That's funny coming from you! What about these questions:
Quote:
Z06,
What's the difference between ISO 16889 and ISO 4845-12?
Also, why did you never respond to ISO55000's post/question to you?
Quote:
You go do some research on the efficiency ratings of all those high class commercila heavy-duty oil filters you're using on that equipment and you'll see they are very high efficiency.
LOL! MANY of those "high class commercial" oil filters you reference cross to many automotive, gasoline applications as well.
Quote:
I already deciphered the beta ratios printed on that oil filter can you posted earlier. 99.5% @ 19 microns is very high efficiency.
Before that can be trusted you need to answer the question you ignored: What's the difference between ISO 16889 and ISO 4845-12?
Quote:
So why do you suppose they aren't 50% @ 20 microns? ...
From what I know from experience and from what I learned reading these threads and the links provided, I believe (and this is just my opinion) that WIX, exactly like BP/Castrol, simply list industry minimum or standard. Can't be sued for that and they're free to design change without the hassle of updating their website everyday to appease fanatical fanboys. It was you that said your secret lab tested the media at 95+ or whatever it was. I don't see you getting all riled up over Castrol's useless online PDS but you are not a fanboy of Castrol. Yet you are locked in to this 50% at 20 micron thing but have no verifiable proof.
Quote:
because filters that bad wouldn't protect that equipment very well. You missed the whole point and are only focused on trying to stomp on guys who use the Ultra ... another "fanboy" move. LoL
Wow, talk about contradictory! WIX filters are installed on engines and equipment that cost more than you will make in your entire working lifetime. They protect very well under obscene conditions. I never see Fram on these things, ever.
You will never find me saying a bad word about the Ultra. In fact, I've said it appears to be a fine filter. I base that opinion on things other than it's online, posted efficiency rating. I don't care who uses what or why. The only design flaw around here is your methodology.
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Not knocking WIX filters, but unless you are the one buying these filters with your money, I am betting your employer is buying these because they are the lowest bidder.
It isn't uncommon for a business such as this to have an account with a parts store. Locally I see more Napa filters being used for industrial applications, but as you know they are the same filter.
Nevertheless these filters are definitely up for the task.
It isn't uncommon for a business such as this to have an account with a parts store. Locally I see more Napa filters being used for industrial applications, but as you know they are the same filter.
Nevertheless these filters are definitely up for the task.
The animosity in these posts is crazy. But back to the "topic"....
There's no way to win this argument, no matter what side you're on.
The more important questions now might be: If the published Wix data on their XP line (or Napa Platinum) line is correct (50% at 20uM), what would the effect be on an engine's wear? More concisely, will my Honda only make it to 300k miles before the engine is kaput if I ran Platinum's its whole life but would have made it to 400k if I would have run Ultra's?
Does it matter that a 20uM particle has a 50/50 chance of being caught as it passes through the filter media its first time? Because by the 3-4th time through the filter, that particle then has approximately a 90% chance of being trapped. Is this causing an engine any real harm?
Also, if the efficiency truly is 50% at 20uM, what is the efficiency after 2k miles, after 5k miles, after 10k miles..... Because all filters are at their worst when they are brand new.
There's no way to win this argument, no matter what side you're on.
The more important questions now might be: If the published Wix data on their XP line (or Napa Platinum) line is correct (50% at 20uM), what would the effect be on an engine's wear? More concisely, will my Honda only make it to 300k miles before the engine is kaput if I ran Platinum's its whole life but would have made it to 400k if I would have run Ultra's?
Does it matter that a 20uM particle has a 50/50 chance of being caught as it passes through the filter media its first time? Because by the 3-4th time through the filter, that particle then has approximately a 90% chance of being trapped. Is this causing an engine any real harm?
Also, if the efficiency truly is 50% at 20uM, what is the efficiency after 2k miles, after 5k miles, after 10k miles..... Because all filters are at their worst when they are brand new.
Honda filters are a good comparison, because they recommend using them for 2 OCIs, & some of them have equally lousy specs as the Wix XP. If the price was right, as in half the price of an Ultra, I would use the XP, but I'm just not going to pay MORE for a filter with WORSE specs. Same reason I don't use Puro Synthetic nor Bosch Distance Plus filters either!
Originally Posted By: bullwinkle
Honda filters are a good comparison, because they recommend using them for 2 OCIs, & some of them have equally lousy specs as the Wix XP. If the price was right, as in half the price of an Ultra, I would use the XP, but I'm just not going to pay MORE for a filter with WORSE specs. Same reason I don't use Puro Synthetic nor Bosch Distance Plus filters either!
X2.
Only a good deal if on sale or with coupons. That said, the ultra would still be the better buy if a extended OCI filter is desired.
Honda filters are a good comparison, because they recommend using them for 2 OCIs, & some of them have equally lousy specs as the Wix XP. If the price was right, as in half the price of an Ultra, I would use the XP, but I'm just not going to pay MORE for a filter with WORSE specs. Same reason I don't use Puro Synthetic nor Bosch Distance Plus filters either!
X2.
Only a good deal if on sale or with coupons. That said, the ultra would still be the better buy if a extended OCI filter is desired.
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No need to bet. Like any good business he buys as cheap as possible. The business has an account with a local independent auto parts store. Nothing special at all. We sure don't buy from CAT if we don't have to!
Those WIX oil filters he get for about four dollars have served his business well for decades.
I do far more than change filters, it just so happens that is what I do most of this time of year in preparation for the new summer season. All summer I spin wrenches in the shop and in the field. As long as the operators and drivers keep oil and coolant in these things, there is no internal engine problems. I spend most of my time on brakes, starting/charging, overheating, tires, vandalism, and miscellaneous electrical and hydraulic system troubleshooting.
Never, ever oil/filter problems and the operators/drivers no better than to mess around. Got a problem? Stop and call.
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
Not knocking WIX filters, but unless you are the one buying these filters with your money, I am betting your employer is buying these because they are the lowest bidder.
It isn't uncommon for a business such as this to have an account with a parts store. Locally I see more Napa filters being used for industrial applications, but as you know they are the same filter.
Nevertheless these filters are definitely up for the task.
Those WIX oil filters he get for about four dollars have served his business well for decades.
I do far more than change filters, it just so happens that is what I do most of this time of year in preparation for the new summer season. All summer I spin wrenches in the shop and in the field. As long as the operators and drivers keep oil and coolant in these things, there is no internal engine problems. I spend most of my time on brakes, starting/charging, overheating, tires, vandalism, and miscellaneous electrical and hydraulic system troubleshooting.
Never, ever oil/filter problems and the operators/drivers no better than to mess around. Got a problem? Stop and call.
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
Not knocking WIX filters, but unless you are the one buying these filters with your money, I am betting your employer is buying these because they are the lowest bidder.
It isn't uncommon for a business such as this to have an account with a parts store. Locally I see more Napa filters being used for industrial applications, but as you know they are the same filter.
Nevertheless these filters are definitely up for the task.
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Z06,
This is an addendum to your "high class commercial" filter comment.
The following pictures show a WIX 51068. The primary catalog-listed application is for Chrysler vehicles (Fram PH43). This filter is installed on the powered axle of a Freightliner. This axle is filled with bulk, conventional 80W-90 gear oil. That stuff is as thick as wet concrete on a cold morning. Think of the stress on the ADBV, bypass, and filter media. It might get changed once/year. Never fails.
You'll have to excuse me when I continue to laugh at your desin flaw claims.
The filter is vertically mounted. That's the yoke at 1 o'clock. Immediately to the right is a steel rock guard.
[img:center]
[/img]
Picture showing the part number.
[img:center]
[/img]
This is an addendum to your "high class commercial" filter comment.
The following pictures show a WIX 51068. The primary catalog-listed application is for Chrysler vehicles (Fram PH43). This filter is installed on the powered axle of a Freightliner. This axle is filled with bulk, conventional 80W-90 gear oil. That stuff is as thick as wet concrete on a cold morning. Think of the stress on the ADBV, bypass, and filter media. It might get changed once/year. Never fails.
You'll have to excuse me when I continue to laugh at your desin flaw claims.
The filter is vertically mounted. That's the yoke at 1 o'clock. Immediately to the right is a steel rock guard.
[img:center]
[/img] Picture showing the part number.
[img:center]
[/img]
A real world hands on everyday mechanic. That speaks for itself.
In my area I've never seen Wix filters. I guess Napa sells them without the name. But I really like the Fram Ultra. But I am willing to try a Wix with similar construction.
In my area I've never seen Wix filters. I guess Napa sells them without the name. But I really like the Fram Ultra. But I am willing to try a Wix with similar construction.
Originally Posted By: Oil Changer
You will never find me saying a bad word about the Ultra.
If it was a measly 50% @ 20 microns you would. Don't give us all this bull that you don't care about the efficiency ratings of oil filters. You wouldn't try to prove the XP was better than that if you didn't care.
But guess what, it is what it is ... and that's a dismal 50% @ 20 microns - per WIX themselves who make it. And also verified by place that has ISO 4548-12 certified test equipment. Two sources saying the same thing pretty much says it's true and some misprint or erroneous spec.
You will never find me saying a bad word about the Ultra.
If it was a measly 50% @ 20 microns you would. Don't give us all this bull that you don't care about the efficiency ratings of oil filters. You wouldn't try to prove the XP was better than that if you didn't care.
But guess what, it is what it is ... and that's a dismal 50% @ 20 microns - per WIX themselves who make it. And also verified by place that has ISO 4548-12 certified test equipment. Two sources saying the same thing pretty much says it's true and some misprint or erroneous spec.
Originally Posted By: Oil Changer
Z06,
This is an addendum to your "high class commercial" filter comment.
The following pictures show a WIX 51068. The primary catalog-listed application is for Chrysler vehicles (Fram PH43). This filter is installed on the powered axle of a Freightliner. This axle is filled with bulk, conventional 80W-90 gear oil. That stuff is as thick as wet concrete on a cold morning. Think of the stress on the ADBV, bypass, and filter media. It might get changed once/year. Never fails.
You'll have to excuse me when I continue to laugh at your desin flaw claims.
Dude, it's not an XP. You are crossing and fogging the issue. Stay on track. Whatever a regular WIX can do, many other filters can do just as good. And some even better. Being a WIX fanboy is nothing special.
Z06,
This is an addendum to your "high class commercial" filter comment.
The following pictures show a WIX 51068. The primary catalog-listed application is for Chrysler vehicles (Fram PH43). This filter is installed on the powered axle of a Freightliner. This axle is filled with bulk, conventional 80W-90 gear oil. That stuff is as thick as wet concrete on a cold morning. Think of the stress on the ADBV, bypass, and filter media. It might get changed once/year. Never fails.
You'll have to excuse me when I continue to laugh at your desin flaw claims.
Dude, it's not an XP. You are crossing and fogging the issue. Stay on track. Whatever a regular WIX can do, many other filters can do just as good. And some even better. Being a WIX fanboy is nothing special.
Man yalls debate has been Epic.. But yes I do really like the Fram Ultra. Though the one on my car is small.. Not Frame fault. But I may get a larger one. And I am willing to use a Wic if it has similar construction. But Fram has done a great job constructing a really good filter.
I dont want to get into this, but it seems one is bench-racing while the other is not.
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I said it before and I'll say it again, I have no idea what the efficiency rating of WIX filters are nor do I care. I've seen them perform and protect first-hand for 14 years. Whatever the rating is, it works well.
Who is this place that has ISO 4548-12 certified test equipment that you use as a source?
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: Oil Changer
You will never find me saying a bad word about the Ultra.
If it was a measly 50% @ 20 microns you would. Don't give us all this bull that you don't care about the efficiency ratings of oil filters. You wouldn't try to prove the XP was better than that if you didn't care.
But guess what, it is what it is ... and that's a dismal 50% @ 20 microns - per WIX themselves who make it. And also verified by place that has ISO 4548-12 certified test equipment. Two sources saying the same thing pretty much says it's true and some misprint or erroneous spec.
Who is this place that has ISO 4548-12 certified test equipment that you use as a source?
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: Oil Changer
You will never find me saying a bad word about the Ultra.
If it was a measly 50% @ 20 microns you would. Don't give us all this bull that you don't care about the efficiency ratings of oil filters. You wouldn't try to prove the XP was better than that if you didn't care.
But guess what, it is what it is ... and that's a dismal 50% @ 20 microns - per WIX themselves who make it. And also verified by place that has ISO 4548-12 certified test equipment. Two sources saying the same thing pretty much says it's true and some misprint or erroneous spec.
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I know it's not an XP, that's the point. No wire-backed media, nothing special at all but that thing has bulk, conventional 80W-90 flowing through it and it performs well. There is over 500,000 miles on that axle. There is no design flaw in WIX filters.
I ask again since you didn't answer the first time, what filters are better and why?
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Dude, it's not an XP. You are crossing and fogging the issue. Stay on track. Whatever a regular WIX can do, many other filters can do just as good. And some even better. Being a WIX fanboy is nothing special.
I ask again since you didn't answer the first time, what filters are better and why?
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Dude, it's not an XP. You are crossing and fogging the issue. Stay on track. Whatever a regular WIX can do, many other filters can do just as good. And some even better. Being a WIX fanboy is nothing special.
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