Originally Posted By: dparm
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
IF I live long enough to need a replacement for this 4Runner will I be faced with accepting a lot of stuff I would not need and maybe not use?
Yes, but that doesn't mean you can't still benefit from it. Modern engines are getting more efficient, more reliable, and requiring less maintenance than ever before.
Technology and automation are not bad things, otherwise, we'd all still be riding horses or driving Model Ts.
Not relevant unless the OP was asking should he keep his model T instead of a newer vehicle with MUCH more mature mechanical tech.
Modern engines are more fuel efficient, and lower weight improves on that too, but that's where the benefit ends.
They're not more reliable and definitely do not require less maintenance than those made in the era the OP referred to. On the contrary the average cost of ownership for someone who normally (or perhaps now that changes to used to does their own repairs, has increased by thousands of dollars over the life of the vehicle
.
Additional tech applied to mature mechanical designs is making most of the things you own shorter lived, with the hope (and sometimes realization) of enough energy savings to offset that, except that in many cases you have to use that widget a lot to reap the energy savings then it breaks that much sooner.
Washers/dryers/stoves/refrigerators/dishwashers/lawn mowers/cars, just about anything appliance level or higher, bought today that costs a few hundred dollars or more, will have a total ownership cost near 50% higher per year once you include wear out/repurchase or repair costs.
If you dispute this then you have not done research into what the average maintenance and repair costs look like for the *average* vehicles on the road today. Those average costs for a single year newer vehicle, exceed what I've had to pay to maintain my oldest vehicle for not just a year but an entire decade.
Part of that is more DIY repairs are possible, another part is that repair parts are cheaper, and another part is less to break, less complex mechanically and less electronics to fail - electronics still in their infancy design cycles. That is where you get a lot of failures, newer designs that haven't matured over many years. That is why a turn of the century vehicle is so cheap to own, because the tech it does have, has matured and been debugged for a long time.
It's not even in the same ballpark how much more modern vehicles cost to maintain/repair. Unfortunately at some point it becomes difficult to find parts for older vehicles, or if in a region where there is rust, or once the bluebook value drops below a certain point, a vehicle may have to be retired anyway because no matter how much you keep it up, some texting teen can come along and plow into it and total it out - It's seldom wise to invest more in a vehicle than its bluebook value unless it's a classic with extra insurance to cover it.
Even that is changing if you look at vehicle replacement cost including that the more modern vehicle maintenance and repair costs keep going up. You could put a whole new (rebuilt) engine or tranny in a '03 4Runner for (probably) around $2400, and still end up with a lower average yearly cost of ownership compared to a newer vehicle.
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
IF I live long enough to need a replacement for this 4Runner will I be faced with accepting a lot of stuff I would not need and maybe not use?
Yes, but that doesn't mean you can't still benefit from it. Modern engines are getting more efficient, more reliable, and requiring less maintenance than ever before.
Technology and automation are not bad things, otherwise, we'd all still be riding horses or driving Model Ts.
Not relevant unless the OP was asking should he keep his model T instead of a newer vehicle with MUCH more mature mechanical tech.
Modern engines are more fuel efficient, and lower weight improves on that too, but that's where the benefit ends.
They're not more reliable and definitely do not require less maintenance than those made in the era the OP referred to. On the contrary the average cost of ownership for someone who normally (or perhaps now that changes to used to does their own repairs, has increased by thousands of dollars over the life of the vehicle
.
Additional tech applied to mature mechanical designs is making most of the things you own shorter lived, with the hope (and sometimes realization) of enough energy savings to offset that, except that in many cases you have to use that widget a lot to reap the energy savings then it breaks that much sooner.
Washers/dryers/stoves/refrigerators/dishwashers/lawn mowers/cars, just about anything appliance level or higher, bought today that costs a few hundred dollars or more, will have a total ownership cost near 50% higher per year once you include wear out/repurchase or repair costs.
If you dispute this then you have not done research into what the average maintenance and repair costs look like for the *average* vehicles on the road today. Those average costs for a single year newer vehicle, exceed what I've had to pay to maintain my oldest vehicle for not just a year but an entire decade.
Part of that is more DIY repairs are possible, another part is that repair parts are cheaper, and another part is less to break, less complex mechanically and less electronics to fail - electronics still in their infancy design cycles. That is where you get a lot of failures, newer designs that haven't matured over many years. That is why a turn of the century vehicle is so cheap to own, because the tech it does have, has matured and been debugged for a long time.
It's not even in the same ballpark how much more modern vehicles cost to maintain/repair. Unfortunately at some point it becomes difficult to find parts for older vehicles, or if in a region where there is rust, or once the bluebook value drops below a certain point, a vehicle may have to be retired anyway because no matter how much you keep it up, some texting teen can come along and plow into it and total it out - It's seldom wise to invest more in a vehicle than its bluebook value unless it's a classic with extra insurance to cover it.
Even that is changing if you look at vehicle replacement cost including that the more modern vehicle maintenance and repair costs keep going up. You could put a whole new (rebuilt) engine or tranny in a '03 4Runner for (probably) around $2400, and still end up with a lower average yearly cost of ownership compared to a newer vehicle.
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