But WallyWorld has end cap displays of Z-Max in their stores, It has to work miracles
.
Whimsey
Whimsey
Is Z-Max worth a [censored]?
- Thread starter Shooff82
- Start date
- Status
Unless the engine has a very small sump I doubt that viscosity will be affected very much if at all.
I do look forward to panther giving it a shot.
I do look forward to panther giving it a shot.
Originally Posted By: Blokey
Originally Posted By: wag123
IF their product actually did what they say it does, what is preventing it from going right through the oil pan (or engine block) and ending-up on the ground (or in the air)?
Is that their claim? I guess it's the same properties that prevents water poured on the ground from ending up on the other side of the world.
I put some in my car when I was 19. Maybe I thought it made the car smoother. Isnt that what always happens?
Originally Posted By: wag123
IF their product actually did what they say it does, what is preventing it from going right through the oil pan (or engine block) and ending-up on the ground (or in the air)?
Is that their claim? I guess it's the same properties that prevents water poured on the ground from ending up on the other side of the world.
I put some in my car when I was 19. Maybe I thought it made the car smoother. Isnt that what always happens?
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
Originally Posted By: Clevy
From what I remember its a additive used in the aviation industry. It coats metal so that nothing can stick to it,which eliminated any possible power robbing deposit formations.
And because the coated metals were so slick it reduced friction wherever there was a contact point in the engine. The pistons slid easier,cams turned with less parasitic loss.
Lets just take into consideration the were attacked by some governing agency then at some point they proved to this governing agency it did something because the governing agency ended up backing off.
You should be doing cliffs notes for a living.
There were 3 major issues people had with this additive:
1. Price
2. MSDS stating 99% mineral oil
3. The defense was done by a hired gun, testing was paid by Zmax, and it was not fully scientific.
I also found some results of UOA showing no difference whatsoever. Thus I'm neutral on the whole deal.
This appears to be the most Z-max [censored] post in the thread.
I can read 5 pages. Can't read 59. Though i remember the thread.
Z-max seems to be one that is good, I put some trans additive in and it did not too much, maybe some effect but could be placebo. This in the trans with Trans Tune, new fluid, etc, so.. As to in engine oil and gas, I think engine oil may be the best place?
It certainly seems MMO-like in that you can put it in the gas, oil, but when I was 19 I paid like $29.99 for the 3-piece kit on the infomercial. Didnt equate how much was on that shelf back then..
I put it in because Carroll Shelby said it helped... And its cool, beaker-like bottles, like it was engineered in a lab. Helped me buy back then.
Now I think "Do I want to part with a $10 bill I could use for gas"....
Originally Posted By: Clevy
From what I remember its a additive used in the aviation industry. It coats metal so that nothing can stick to it,which eliminated any possible power robbing deposit formations.
And because the coated metals were so slick it reduced friction wherever there was a contact point in the engine. The pistons slid easier,cams turned with less parasitic loss.
Lets just take into consideration the were attacked by some governing agency then at some point they proved to this governing agency it did something because the governing agency ended up backing off.
You should be doing cliffs notes for a living.
There were 3 major issues people had with this additive:
1. Price
2. MSDS stating 99% mineral oil
3. The defense was done by a hired gun, testing was paid by Zmax, and it was not fully scientific.
I also found some results of UOA showing no difference whatsoever. Thus I'm neutral on the whole deal.
This appears to be the most Z-max [censored] post in the thread.
I can read 5 pages. Can't read 59. Though i remember the thread.
Z-max seems to be one that is good, I put some trans additive in and it did not too much, maybe some effect but could be placebo. This in the trans with Trans Tune, new fluid, etc, so.. As to in engine oil and gas, I think engine oil may be the best place?
It certainly seems MMO-like in that you can put it in the gas, oil, but when I was 19 I paid like $29.99 for the 3-piece kit on the infomercial. Didnt equate how much was on that shelf back then..
I put it in because Carroll Shelby said it helped... And its cool, beaker-like bottles, like it was engineered in a lab. Helped me buy back then.
Now I think "Do I want to part with a $10 bill I could use for gas"....
Well I put the Avblend in today. Trajan's right, this stuff has a potent smell! Haven't driven much so far, will report back on my observations after some miles accumulate.
Z-Max.. correct me here if (& I expect you will) from a historical standpoint, this product started in the mid 60's and went under the Linkite label.
Working for Mr. Red Vogt (member of the GM Hall of Fame) at the time behind the speedway in Big-D when one of the marketing guys dropped by and left a case or two for us to try. Linkite was a boundary layer surface application and worked well enough to pickup several points on the dyno & oil temps went down. Did they go down a lot, no, but they did go down enough to get more than a few of the engine builders in the area to become believers.
Recently, after a friend built a fresh toy, I got him to add a pint of it (Z-Max) before it's first pull and surprise, it did the same thing.
I'm curious why, when someone that has no affiliation with a major oil producer gets kicked in the nuts for development of a lube improver.
I remember not to many years ago a certain major chemical company was telling everyone that PTFE in an engine was a wasted effort (and somewhere in my filing cabinet, I have that report).
Curious that today if you buy any of this material from this same corporation you will be put on a waiting list to get any and unless something has changed you will end up waiting for awhile. Things got funny when this same operation now produces this product to be applied in any and everything that has friction issues.
Thank Slic-50 for bloodying the nose of an industry that may well never have got off the ground due to their inept testing and less than candid claims.
There are products available that reduce temperature, load, wear, etc., etc., available.
If they perform in an internal combustion engine, gun, hydraulic pump, fly reel, electric motor, turbine, automatic transmission, bearings and whatever your application is, some of us out he have no issue using them, even if no one care's or will admit to it.
Using PTFE surface treatment has been a major industry for decades. Ceramics have been around for not quit as long. Unless this is a trick of some sort, we in these industries have helped a great many people down the path searching for the better mouse trap.
Unless someone is lying to us, mated PTFE surfaces are the slickest and have the least coefficient of friction know to man sans magnetic levitation.
These ideas and processes have bucked the agenda of the major corporations and yet are slowly showing up in spite of the efforts to keep them under wraps. Thank you Honda corporation for PTFE coated piston skirts.
Cryogenic processing was started by NASA and has been a part of the heat treatment industry since the mid 60's. Ambient to [censored] cold, done properly, works quit well. You name it and it can be processed. I used to give throw-away razor blades as a simple example of what the future has to offer.
The performance corner of the world has been using post production processes simply because they are successful.
Oil companies are NOT the only game in town. Keep believing they are because none of them have a agenda if you care to listen to them.. they all tell the truth and never admit to anything but the truth.
pc
Working for Mr. Red Vogt (member of the GM Hall of Fame) at the time behind the speedway in Big-D when one of the marketing guys dropped by and left a case or two for us to try. Linkite was a boundary layer surface application and worked well enough to pickup several points on the dyno & oil temps went down. Did they go down a lot, no, but they did go down enough to get more than a few of the engine builders in the area to become believers.
Recently, after a friend built a fresh toy, I got him to add a pint of it (Z-Max) before it's first pull and surprise, it did the same thing.
I'm curious why, when someone that has no affiliation with a major oil producer gets kicked in the nuts for development of a lube improver.
I remember not to many years ago a certain major chemical company was telling everyone that PTFE in an engine was a wasted effort (and somewhere in my filing cabinet, I have that report).
Curious that today if you buy any of this material from this same corporation you will be put on a waiting list to get any and unless something has changed you will end up waiting for awhile. Things got funny when this same operation now produces this product to be applied in any and everything that has friction issues.
Thank Slic-50 for bloodying the nose of an industry that may well never have got off the ground due to their inept testing and less than candid claims.
There are products available that reduce temperature, load, wear, etc., etc., available.
If they perform in an internal combustion engine, gun, hydraulic pump, fly reel, electric motor, turbine, automatic transmission, bearings and whatever your application is, some of us out he have no issue using them, even if no one care's or will admit to it.
Using PTFE surface treatment has been a major industry for decades. Ceramics have been around for not quit as long. Unless this is a trick of some sort, we in these industries have helped a great many people down the path searching for the better mouse trap.
Unless someone is lying to us, mated PTFE surfaces are the slickest and have the least coefficient of friction know to man sans magnetic levitation.
These ideas and processes have bucked the agenda of the major corporations and yet are slowly showing up in spite of the efforts to keep them under wraps. Thank you Honda corporation for PTFE coated piston skirts.
Cryogenic processing was started by NASA and has been a part of the heat treatment industry since the mid 60's. Ambient to [censored] cold, done properly, works quit well. You name it and it can be processed. I used to give throw-away razor blades as a simple example of what the future has to offer.
The performance corner of the world has been using post production processes simply because they are successful.
Oil companies are NOT the only game in town. Keep believing they are because none of them have a agenda if you care to listen to them.. they all tell the truth and never admit to anything but the truth.
pc
JHZR2
Staff member
Nobody is saying that they are the only game in town. But when you pitch physics and chemistry to a group that is savvy in them, and the results dont make sense, then it becomes a question of if they used "sciency" words to try and make it sound high tech to those who dont understand, but really has no basis... Kind of like on all these forensics TV shows that come on - use big words, show some graphs and equations, and it must be right...
As Ive stated previously...
I'll say it again that the physics isn't there in a substantial way, but there may be other less interesting mechanisms that do something for some folks...
But there is no good science behind the claims, so to try to use that as a basis is quite weak...
As Ive stated previously...
I'll say it again that the physics isn't there in a substantial way, but there may be other less interesting mechanisms that do something for some folks...
But there is no good science behind the claims, so to try to use that as a basis is quite weak...
MolaKule
Staff member
Quote:
Recently, after a friend built a fresh toy, I got him to add a pint of it (Z-Max) before it's first pull and surprise, it did the same thing.
Are you saying that without Zmax the engine would not have started at all?
People often confuse "bonded" surface treatments with particles in suspension as having the same effectiveness, but this is definitely not the case here in materials science.
If you or anyone else can present a scientific case for Zmax's claims using physics, chemistry, or tribology, then we are all eyes.
Otherwise, it seems to me to be a case of faith influenced by marketing and hearsay.
Recently, after a friend built a fresh toy, I got him to add a pint of it (Z-Max) before it's first pull and surprise, it did the same thing.
Are you saying that without Zmax the engine would not have started at all?
People often confuse "bonded" surface treatments with particles in suspension as having the same effectiveness, but this is definitely not the case here in materials science.
If you or anyone else can present a scientific case for Zmax's claims using physics, chemistry, or tribology, then we are all eyes.
Otherwise, it seems to me to be a case of faith influenced by marketing and hearsay.
Last edited:
Small update with my usage of this stuff, it's been ~500 miles so far. First thing I've noticed is that the oil level has not dropped at all in 500 miles. So, as far as I can tell; no "soaking" is going on.
Secondly, I have not noticed any perceived benefits of the product. Engine idle "smoothness" is unchanged. Mpg has been unaffected, and engine startup is the same(still quiet). No perceived increase in power either.
I have no idea if this product needs time to "work", but so far its looking like nothing. At the very least it has satisfied my curiosity and at worst put me out $18.
I will update again after a couple thousand miles, but I'm not holding my breath for any changes. I'll keep tracking mpg and checking the oil level periodically.
Secondly, I have not noticed any perceived benefits of the product. Engine idle "smoothness" is unchanged. Mpg has been unaffected, and engine startup is the same(still quiet). No perceived increase in power either.
I have no idea if this product needs time to "work", but so far its looking like nothing. At the very least it has satisfied my curiosity and at worst put me out $18.
I will update again after a couple thousand miles, but I'm not holding my breath for any changes. I'll keep tracking mpg and checking the oil level periodically.
I have another thread showing sludge being cleaned out of my 96 Tahoe
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3164306&#Post3164306
this is my youtube channel where i have posted videos of my filters cut open over time and shows the cleaning of sludge from previous owners oil choice.
https://www.youtube.com/user/Arctic388/videos
I had forgotten that i put Z-MAX in on my last oil change until today when i saw it on the shelf at a store. then i remembered this thread from earlier and could not believe the only thing i did this time was add Z-max and the filter came out like it did.
this is the last filter
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zf27FQsh3Nc
I plan not to put anymore Z-max in and change my filter between 1000-1500 and if that filter isn't full of gunk i will then put in ZMAX again and at the 3000 mark check filter again to see if i get different results.
very interesting to me.
thoughts?
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3164306&#Post3164306
this is my youtube channel where i have posted videos of my filters cut open over time and shows the cleaning of sludge from previous owners oil choice.
https://www.youtube.com/user/Arctic388/videos
I had forgotten that i put Z-MAX in on my last oil change until today when i saw it on the shelf at a store. then i remembered this thread from earlier and could not believe the only thing i did this time was add Z-max and the filter came out like it did.
this is the last filter
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zf27FQsh3Nc
I plan not to put anymore Z-max in and change my filter between 1000-1500 and if that filter isn't full of gunk i will then put in ZMAX again and at the 3000 mark check filter again to see if i get different results.
very interesting to me.
thoughts?
MolaKule
Staff member
Quote:
I had forgotten that i put Z-MAX in on my last oil change until today when i saw it on the shelf at a store. then i remembered this thread from earlier and could not believe the only thing i did this time was add Z-max and the filter came out like it did.
this is the last filter
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zf27FQsh3Nc
I plan not to put anymore Z-max in and change my filter between 1000-1500 and if that filter isn't full of gunk i will then put in ZMAX again and at the 3000 mark check filter again to see if i get different results.
very interesting to me.
thoughts?
But in all fairness, how can you attribute Zmax to a sludging condition?
I think one would need more info.
I had forgotten that i put Z-MAX in on my last oil change until today when i saw it on the shelf at a store. then i remembered this thread from earlier and could not believe the only thing i did this time was add Z-max and the filter came out like it did.
this is the last filter
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zf27FQsh3Nc
I plan not to put anymore Z-max in and change my filter between 1000-1500 and if that filter isn't full of gunk i will then put in ZMAX again and at the 3000 mark check filter again to see if i get different results.
very interesting to me.
thoughts?
But in all fairness, how can you attribute Zmax to a sludging condition?
I think one would need more info.
I think based on my filters that the z-max helped dissolve and dislodge the sludge. Not cause it. Is that what you're asking?
I went back and my 2 previous filters where I didn't use it had minimal carbon and then used it and this one was packed full with the z-max the only difference really intrigues me.
I went back and my 2 previous filters where I didn't use it had minimal carbon and then used it and this one was packed full with the z-max the only difference really intrigues me.
Originally Posted By: Arctic388
I think based on my filters that the z-max helped dissolve and dislodge the sludge. Not cause it. Is that what you're asking?
I went back and my 2 previous filters where I didn't use it had minimal carbon and then used it and this one was packed full with the z-max the only difference really intrigues me.
I thought you were referring to Z-Max doing some cleaning, I'm glad you cleared that up. Interesting results, keep us updated.
I think based on my filters that the z-max helped dissolve and dislodge the sludge. Not cause it. Is that what you're asking?
I went back and my 2 previous filters where I didn't use it had minimal carbon and then used it and this one was packed full with the z-max the only difference really intrigues me.
I thought you were referring to Z-Max doing some cleaning, I'm glad you cleared that up. Interesting results, keep us updated.
Makes sense. The current claim is it helps by keeping engine clean. And the very initial application was cleaning sticky valves in aviation engines.
Could that be just naphthenic mineral oil?
Could that be just naphthenic mineral oil?
i just posted a new video of the latest filter with oil only and it had very minimal carbon in it. i just swapped the filter with a new one and then added z-max to the oil. will post that video once i get 1000 miles on that filter.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bguOzI2ChLs
something very odd on this filter was the ADBV had some slits in it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGzRggQwKNI
i have never seen this before on any of the filters i have opened. the filter i am currently using is just a regular purolator and will cut it open soon.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bguOzI2ChLs
something very odd on this filter was the ADBV had some slits in it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGzRggQwKNI
i have never seen this before on any of the filters i have opened. the filter i am currently using is just a regular purolator and will cut it open soon.
Arctic388 - many thanks for posting these two videos. Very informative!
Look forward to the next one with Z-Max.
Look forward to the next one with Z-Max.
Originally Posted By: vintageant
Arctic388 - many thanks for posting these two videos. Very informative!
Look forward to the next one with Z-Max.
+1... I am also looking forward to the next one with Z-max.
Arctic388 - many thanks for posting these two videos. Very informative!
Look forward to the next one with Z-Max.
+1... I am also looking forward to the next one with Z-max.
Originally Posted By: Shooff82
I cant seem to find anything on the forum. The reason i ask is, a few years ago my family and i took a road trip to colorado in a '99 ford taurus with a 3.0 and 150k. I did a basic tune-up and with the oil change, i added a bottle of Z-max. I also added a set of Bosch +2's. Granted, i didn't have a baseline, but the car, with 5 passengers and a trunk full of luggage averaged 32 mpg's. This average is with high-altitude, stop and go driving. We went to Pikes peak, Poudre canyon, Estes Park, royal gorge, the works. It even averaged 31 mpg's on the way back to Ks. with the A/C on.
Sorry for the short answer but in my opinion it's no.
Is this stuff worth a [censored], or was it a mix of aerodynamics, tune up, driving style, etc,? Any thoughts?
I cant seem to find anything on the forum. The reason i ask is, a few years ago my family and i took a road trip to colorado in a '99 ford taurus with a 3.0 and 150k. I did a basic tune-up and with the oil change, i added a bottle of Z-max. I also added a set of Bosch +2's. Granted, i didn't have a baseline, but the car, with 5 passengers and a trunk full of luggage averaged 32 mpg's. This average is with high-altitude, stop and go driving. We went to Pikes peak, Poudre canyon, Estes Park, royal gorge, the works. It even averaged 31 mpg's on the way back to Ks. with the A/C on.
Sorry for the short answer but in my opinion it's no.
Is this stuff worth a [censored], or was it a mix of aerodynamics, tune up, driving style, etc,? Any thoughts?
MolaKule
Staff member
Quote:
Using PTFE surface treatment has been a major industry for decades. Ceramics have been around for not quit as long. Unless this is a trick of some sort, we in these industries have helped a great many people down the path searching for the better mouse trap.
Unless someone is lying to us, mated PTFE surfaces are the slickest and have the least coefficient of friction know to man sans magnetic levitation.
Sure Teflon has some of the lowest COF when under light loads, but under heavy loads, shock and pulse loads, Teflon shears and deforms like crazy.
You need to get your technical facts in order before assuming a conspiracy and before making sweeping generalizations.
Quote:
Cryogenic processing was started by NASA and has been a part of the heat treatment industry since the mid 60's. Ambient to [censored] cold, done properly, works quit well. You name it and it can be processed. I used to give throw-away razor blades as a simple example of what the future has to offer.
And what has that to do with Zmax?
If anyone has any cause-and-effect data to show Zmax has an advantages over a good formulated oil, then please post it or send me a PM.
Inferences and claims devoid of any cause-and-effect data prove nothing.
Using PTFE surface treatment has been a major industry for decades. Ceramics have been around for not quit as long. Unless this is a trick of some sort, we in these industries have helped a great many people down the path searching for the better mouse trap.
Unless someone is lying to us, mated PTFE surfaces are the slickest and have the least coefficient of friction know to man sans magnetic levitation.
Sure Teflon has some of the lowest COF when under light loads, but under heavy loads, shock and pulse loads, Teflon shears and deforms like crazy.
You need to get your technical facts in order before assuming a conspiracy and before making sweeping generalizations.
Quote:
Cryogenic processing was started by NASA and has been a part of the heat treatment industry since the mid 60's. Ambient to [censored] cold, done properly, works quit well. You name it and it can be processed. I used to give throw-away razor blades as a simple example of what the future has to offer.
And what has that to do with Zmax?
If anyone has any cause-and-effect data to show Zmax has an advantages over a good formulated oil, then please post it or send me a PM.
Inferences and claims devoid of any cause-and-effect data prove nothing.
Last edited:
MolaKule
Staff member
Originally Posted By: Whitewolf
Originally Posted By: Shooff82
I cant seem to find anything on the forum. The reason i ask is, a few years ago my family and i took a road trip to colorado in a '99 ford taurus with a 3.0 and 150k. I did a basic tune-up and with the oil change, i added a bottle of Z-max. I also added a set of Bosch +2's. Granted, i didn't have a baseline, but the car, with 5 passengers and a trunk full of luggage averaged 32 mpg's. This average is with high-altitude, stop and go driving. We went to Pikes peak, Poudre canyon, Estes Park, royal gorge, the works. It even averaged 31 mpg's on the way back to Ks. with the A/C on.
Sorry for the short answer but in my opinion it's no.
Is this stuff worth a [censored], or was it a mix of aerodynamics, tune up, driving style, etc,? Any thoughts?
You put in new plugs and the fuel injections system leans out the fuel mixture as you gain altitude, so I would say these are the factors that contributed to your good fuel mileage.
Originally Posted By: Shooff82
I cant seem to find anything on the forum. The reason i ask is, a few years ago my family and i took a road trip to colorado in a '99 ford taurus with a 3.0 and 150k. I did a basic tune-up and with the oil change, i added a bottle of Z-max. I also added a set of Bosch +2's. Granted, i didn't have a baseline, but the car, with 5 passengers and a trunk full of luggage averaged 32 mpg's. This average is with high-altitude, stop and go driving. We went to Pikes peak, Poudre canyon, Estes Park, royal gorge, the works. It even averaged 31 mpg's on the way back to Ks. with the A/C on.
Sorry for the short answer but in my opinion it's no.
Is this stuff worth a [censored], or was it a mix of aerodynamics, tune up, driving style, etc,? Any thoughts?
You put in new plugs and the fuel injections system leans out the fuel mixture as you gain altitude, so I would say these are the factors that contributed to your good fuel mileage.
- Status
