Is premium better for Skyactiv?

[alarmguy]

Originally Posted by Mr Nice
These engines have a slightly high compression ratio.

91 octane


Actually the Skyactive Mazda engine is developed by the brilliant Mazda engineers and patented too.

It's the highest compression mass produced engine in the world, designed to run on regular gas.

With that said, To the OP, we too have the same car, 2012, engine is rock solid, very impressive which Im sure you know by now but you post an interesting question and we have only used regular gas for 70,000 miles, since it's such a high compression engine, for the fun of it, next time I'm going to do premium and see if any difference.
For a low cost car, this thing kinda feels like a little rocket as it is and doubt there will be a difference, yet Mr Nice may have a point or not.

 

[wolf_06]

Originally Posted by alarmguy
Originally Posted by Mr Nice
These engines have a slightly high compression ratio.

91 octane


Actually the Skyactive Mazda engine is developed by the brilliant Mazda engineers and patented too.

It's the highest compression mass produced engine in the world, designed to run on regular gas.

With that said, To the OP, we too have the same car, 2012, engine is rock solid, very impressive which Im sure you know by now but you post an interesting question and we have only used regular gas for 70,000 miles, since it's such a high compression engine, for the fun of it, next time I'm going to do premium and see if any difference.
For a low cost car, this thing kinda feels like a little rocket as it is and doubt there will be a difference, yet Mr Nice may have a point or not.


In mine, looks like it doesn't want to downshift as easily as on regular, kind of it maintains more its power, maybe its in my head, but i noticed that

 

[E150GT]

Originally Posted by wolf_06
Originally Posted by E150GT
I don't like it but I use it. I don't get better power or fuel economy but I get considerable less pinging. On 87 I can press the case peddle and it sounds like chains clanking from the engine. With 93 that goes away


with your mazda 6 ?

Yes. I never noticed it with my cx5 but I only owned it for 18k miles and the 6 started doing it around 20k.
I took it to two dealers and one claimed they didn't hear anything wrong and the other acknowledged it and said the intake was dirty and cleaned it but it didn't make a difference. After trying 93 octane the pinging stopped almost entirely so I use that now.

 

[vivaUkraine]

I actually got to ask Dave Coleman this question. (Google Dave Coleman Mazda). He was adamant that there is zero benefit in using premium. He said that maybe, if it's 100f and you're driving on an Autobahn 120 mph for hours.... Maybe(!) there might be a benefit using 89 octane

 

[rrretiree7]

I have a Turbo and I always used 87 with no problems

 

[Cdn17Sport6MT]

Originally Posted by vivaUkraine
I actually got to ask Dave Coleman this question. (Google Dave Coleman Mazda). He was adamant that there is zero benefit in using premium. He said that maybe, if it's 100f and you're driving on an Autobahn 120 mph for hours.... Maybe(!) there might be a benefit using 89 octane

Hard to argue with having a direct answer from Dave Coleman. To my way of thinking, using premium would lessen the tendency for fuel enrichment to be used (some of the time) to stave-off pinging. The other methods include retarding the timing, and also, effectively lessening the compression ratio by increasing the DELAY of intake valve closure. So I like the idea of using premium to lessen theoretical engine oil dilution... though I don't like the cost of premium. Having said this about possible fuel dilution in the crankcase oil - apparently it is NOT a big issue on the SkyActiv-G engines..

Incidentally, ONE of the reasons that Mazda can have a 13:1 CR in its north american SkyActiv engines... running (R+M)/2 87 octane fuel - is that under higher load conditions undoubtedly they delay intake valve closure... effectively therefore running 'way below 13:1 compression ratio. Some of the intake air leaks-out of the intake valves when intake cam closure delay occurs. Another poster, above, correctly indicated that Direct Injection runs cooler (or the intake air is cooler and fuel is injected later... meaning the engine can run cooler and has less of a propensity to ping.

 

[wdn]

Originally Posted by alarmguy


Actually the Skyactive Mazda engine is developed by the brilliant Mazda engineers and patented too.

It's the highest compression mass produced engine in the world, designed to run on regular gas.



How do you figure that? The 2020 Toyota Corolla has 13:1 compression ratio.

The Corolla also saves you $750 in gas compared to the Mazda3 sedan, in 5 years. Even tricks like cylinder deactivation do not help the Mazda.

The Mazda engine is 13:1 compression ratio, but the Subaru FB20D is very close at 12.5:1. Mazda3 AWD hatchback costs an extra $1,000 in fuel cost over 5 years compared with Impreza hatchback, due to Mazda's 4 MPG worse fuel economy.

A Mazda 2.5 liter engine makes more HP than the competition's 1.8 or 2.0? OK.

 

[Skippy722]

Originally Posted by wdn
Originally Posted by alarmguy


Actually the Skyactive Mazda engine is developed by the brilliant Mazda engineers and patented too.

It's the highest compression mass produced engine in the world, designed to run on regular gas.



How do you figure that? The 2020 Toyota Corolla has 13:1 compression ratio.

The Corolla also saves you $750 in gas compared to the Mazda3 sedan, in 5 years. Even tricks like cylinder deactivation do not help the Mazda.

The Mazda engine is 13:1 compression ratio, but the Subaru FB20D is very close at 12.5:1. Mazda3 AWD hatchback costs an extra $1,000 in fuel cost over 5 years compared with Impreza hatchback, due to Mazda's 4 MPG worse fuel economy.

A Mazda 2.5 liter engine makes more HP than the competition's 1.8 or 2.0? OK.


But doesn't the Atkinson cycle that Toyota among others use change the effective compression ratio?

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

#1 Assuming the engine is tuned for it there will be a power difference. It's small but it's there. A poorly calibrated butt dyno will not provided confirmation. Does the owners manual indicate a min and also a "Max Perf" octane rating? What does Mazda recommend for this engine in Europe?

#2 It may give you a better ownership experience because you may not feel the engine pulling back on timing and may be slightly more responsive, etc etc. Some people are more sensitive to that kind of thing.


Personally it annoys the #$#@ out of me if I can feel an engine pulling timing because of fuel.



EDIT: Per the Mazda DE (Germany) the fuel requirements for the 2.0 Sky-Active "Super lead-free according to DIN EN 228 (at least 95 RON) suitable for E10"

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Originally Posted by vivaUkraine
I actually got to ask Dave Coleman this question. (Google Dave Coleman Mazda). He was adamant that there is zero benefit in using premium. He said that maybe, if it's 100f and you're driving on an Autobahn 120 mph for hours.... Maybe(!) there might be a benefit using 89 octane


Be careful with these "horses mouth" replies because these guys generally speaking must tow the company line 24/7. The only time when this isn't the case is if they're rip roaring drunk then you just might get an unfiltered answer. lol.

 

[alarmguy]

Originally Posted by wdn
Originally Posted by alarmguy


Actually the Skyactive Mazda engine is developed by the brilliant Mazda engineers and patented too.

It's the highest compression mass produced engine in the world, designed to run on regular gas.



How do you figure that? The 2020 Toyota Corolla has 13:1 compression ratio.

The Corolla also saves you $750 in gas compared to the Mazda3 sedan, in 5 years. Even tricks like cylinder deactivation do not help the Mazda.

The Mazda engine is 13:1 compression ratio, but the Subaru FB20D is very close at 12.5:1. Mazda3 AWD hatchback costs an extra $1,000 in fuel cost over 5 years compared with Impreza hatchback, due to Mazda's 4 MPG worse fuel economy.

A Mazda 2.5 liter engine makes more HP than the competition's 1.8 or 2.0? OK.


Incorrect... its been EIGHT years since Mazda has been building the Skyactive .. read on...

What's the difference? Most will understand the point of being the first and highest for a number of years and honestly I do not know if anyone meets or surpasses them yet. Mazda has many patents on the engineering and speculation at the time would be they license them out as they have done with other firsts in engineering.

Last but not least, your numbers are wrong, the new Mazda Engine is a 14:1 compression Ratio not 12.5:1 and 13:1 like the other makers you mention.

https://www.mazda.com/en/innovation/technology/skyactiv/skyactiv-g/

_____
Wolf = for the fun of it, Ill try Premium next week, my wife drives the Mazda and she works from home, so it takes a week until we need gas. Ill throw in a full tank of premium for fun, we have a first production year Skyactive and every time I drive the car on weekends I am always surprised how peppy the car is and in over 70,000 miles never a ping and my wife puts the cheapest Sams Club and Murphy regular gas in it. Which by the way is only $1.95 a gallon in the good state of South Carolina as of 2-3-2020
(I drive a V-8 Durango)

 

[PimTac]

Originally Posted by wdn
Originally Posted by alarmguy


Actually the Skyactive Mazda engine is developed by the brilliant Mazda engineers and patented too.

It's the highest compression mass produced engine in the world, designed to run on regular gas.



How do you figure that? The 2020 Toyota Corolla has 13:1 compression ratio.

The Corolla also saves you $750 in gas compared to the Mazda3 sedan, in 5 years. Even tricks like cylinder deactivation do not help the Mazda.

The Mazda engine is 13:1 compression ratio, but the Subaru FB20D is very close at 12.5:1. Mazda3 AWD hatchback costs an extra $1,000 in fuel cost over 5 years compared with Impreza hatchback, due to Mazda's 4 MPG worse fuel economy.

A Mazda 2.5 liter engine makes more HP than the competition's 1.8 or 2.0? OK.




That Toyota engine has a lot of Mazda in it.

 

[PimTac]

To clarify; the SkyActiv engine has a 14:1 compression ratio everywhere except the US where they lowered it to 13:1 to allow the 87 octane fuel.

 

[alarmguy]

(WND)
I wont get into anymore then what I already said in my original post which is all correct. You can buy any car you want with any gas mileage, this thread is about the Mazda, oh, one last thing, the Mazda produces 185 Hp and the Toyota Corolla (1.8)130 Hp at the same RPMs, also the Mazda creates 186 lbs of torque vs the Toyota 126 Lbs their 2.0 creates 169@6600 and a paltry 151 of torque... whatever floats your boat and whatever gas mileage you want, its our money.

Pimtac your correct 13:1 in USA, thanks for the correction.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Originally Posted by PimTac
To clarify; the SkyActiv engine has a 14:1 compression ratio everywhere except the US where they lowered it to 13:1 to allow the 87 octane fuel.


That would makes sense then since they require a min of 95 RON (91 U.S.) in Germany.

I wonder if they accomplished that with software or physical parts.

 

[alarmguy]

Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted by PimTac
To clarify; the SkyActiv engine has a 14:1 compression ratio everywhere except the US where they lowered it to 13:1 to allow the 87 octane fuel.


That would makes sense then since they require a min of 95 RON (91 U.S.) in Germany.

I wonder if they accomplished that with software or physical parts.


https://www.mazda.com/en/innovation/technology/skyactiv/skyactiv-g/

It was quite amazing at the time of production in 2012 and after someone bringing up the Toyota in this thread, for whatever reason, I can see in the HP and Torque numbers how cool it still is. (true story) engineers at Mazda are recognized as being among the best in the industry and remember back then a story if they will license out this engine technology or not as they have other things in the past. Dont ask me where and when I read it *L* have no clue and I dont think about it... *L*and not going to debate *L* thank god!

(ps, not sure if you are aware, my son only drives BMWs, he happens to work for them and gets a new one to drive approx every 6 months, plus has his own personal one, that he doesnt replace every 6 months *L*)

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Originally Posted by alarmguy
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted by PimTac
To clarify; the SkyActiv engine has a 14:1 compression ratio everywhere except the US where they lowered it to 13:1 to allow the 87 octane fuel.


That would makes sense then since they require a min of 95 RON (91 U.S.) in Germany.

I wonder if they accomplished that with software or physical parts.


https://www.mazda.com/en/innovation/technology/skyactiv/skyactiv-g/

It was quite amazing at the time of production in 2012 and after someone bringing up the Toyota in this thread, for whatever reason, I can see in the HP and Torque numbers how cool it still is. (true story) engineers at Mazda are recognized as being among the best in the industry and remember back then a story if they will license out this engine technology or not as they have other things in the past. Dont ask me where and when I read it *L* have no clue and I dont think about it... *L*and not going to debate *L* thank god!

(ps, not sure if you are aware, my son only drives BMWs, he happens to work for them and gets a new one to drive approx every 6 months, plus has his own personal one, that he doesnt replace every 6 months *L*)


I was thinking with regards to the reduced compression ratio for US vehicles. If it's a matter of software then I suspect the engine could be tuned to run on premium.

Does your son work at the Greer/Spartanburg plant or for BMWNA? I've been to the plant in Greer. BMW moving to the upstate has been a boon for that area.

 

[PimTac]

The computer handles all the tuning.

Now I do run Shell 92 V Nitro in my CX5. I think it does run a bit better, especially on hills.

The price is tempered a bit because I can use my Fred Meyer/Kroger rewards at Shell. I just refueled the other day and got .70¢ off per gallon.

I don't smell any fuel in my oil either. Totally unscientific but there it is.

 

[Luftmasse]

Originally Posted by Mr Nice
These engines have a slightly high compression ratio.

91 octane


13:1 is high.

 

[Luftmasse]

Originally Posted by alarmguy
(WND)
I wont get into anymore then what I already said in my original post which is all correct. You can buy any car you want with any gas mileage, this thread is about the Mazda, oh, one last thing, the Mazda produces 185 Hp and the Toyota Corolla (1.8)130 Hp at the same RPMs, also the Mazda creates 186 lbs of torque vs the Toyota 126 Lbs their 2.0 creates 169@6600 and a paltry 151 of torque... whatever floats your boat and whatever gas mileage you want, its our money.

Pimtac your correct 13:1 in USA, thanks for the correction.


The 2019 Toyota Camry 2.5L NA engine produces 203-206 depending on model, 13:1 compression ratio and can be run on 87 octance. EPA 29 city/41 hwy depending on model.

I haven't seen any vehicle that can beat the Camry in regarding to horsepower and gas mileage that is non turbo, 4 cylinders.