Learning the lesson of simpler is better

[John105]

99% of the time we're debating which Band-Aid will work best. What you find in aggregate is good engines produce good results, regardless of brand and bad engines produce not so good results, regardless of brand. That's not to say there aren't differences, but they're often exaggerated and nominal when comparing oils that meet the same specifications. You do get some differentiation under very specific and narrow operating conditions.

I have 36k useless posts and those are my observations.

Again so many beat around the bush in what’s most important when selecting the proper oil. Some say weight. Some say OA results. At the end of the day, we all know what comes first. Prestige

 

[RaymondP]

Agreed, any reputable oil will work so long as you change it every 3,000 miles... whether it needs it or not!

Better safe than sorry...

But how about 5,000 to 7,500 miles? Worried owner - German 4-cylinder cars with turbos!!

 

[kschachn]

Again so many beat around the bush in what’s most important when selecting the proper oil. Some say weight. Some say OA results. At the end of the day, we all know what comes first. Prestige

It's not any singular thing nor is it the same for every engine. UOA results wouldn't matter to me, that's not indicative of much.

Sufficient HT/HS to prevent excessive wear even with fuel dilution ("weight" in your example), oxidation resistance, resistance to sludge formation, resistance to ring sticking, and a consideration of ash given the specific engine. Those are what define performance, and if you get those in line you're also going to get wear resistance.

 

[Titan]

I have 36k useless posts and those are my observations.

660+ Useful posts out of 36,600+ posts is actually pretty good on the internet forums!

 

[JustN89]

The reality is that what the OP is doing isn’t all that off-based. Operating under the assumption that a premium lube will only extend the life of the J37, not prevent failure, he’s being told to rather save for repairs. However, a used J37 is near impossible to find in good condition and for a price worth paying. That leaves only one option, rebuilding the engine. At that point, he’s going to have a car old enough to buy a beer. What’s the appetite going to be for spending multiple thousands of dollars on a car that old?

Instead of thinking about spending many thousands of dollars rebuilding an engine in a car that old, his current course of action actually makes a lot of sense. If an extra $20-40 per oil change staves off the issues for a couple of years, then that’s likely the course most people would take, I’d imagine.

 

[bubbanik]

I must admit that in my short time as an active member here I've drunk from the firehouse of knowledge here and, at times, convinced myself that my daily driver requires a 70 step process prior to an oil change and then another dozen steps every time I drive it. Exaggeration for sure, but I think I went down the rabbit hole too quickly being a bit new. After exchanging a few DMs with Dave at @High Performance Lubricants I am no longer convinced that I HAVE to have the Super Car Series oil for my 2013 Acura TL, haha. It is nice to be told by a company rep that I should save my money and even their standard Passenger Car Oil in 5W30 is way better than my or my wife's car (2021 Mazda CX-9) would need. Plus, I will be running the same HPL PCO 5W30 (Acura suggests 5W20 and I immediately switched to 5W30 when I bought it; wife's car specifies 5W30 with the 2.5T Skyactiv direct injection engine) in both so I can just buy that oil in large quantities.

None of that is to say I don't run thought experiments in my head reading some of the threads with some of you guys do the real work of analyzing oil samples, cutting open filters, and really deep diving into the pool of specs.

Great post. I work part time at a Carquest and each day talk with people wanting to put Royal Purple or some other boutique oil in their Yugo or mini-van with 350,000 miles because someone said it was the best and would fix all the problems they're having. I refuse to "up-sell" people and often get the "stink eye" from the owner but I don't care. Ultimately it's the owners decision but if you're spending $100 for an oil change when a $30 change will do, sometimes just takes a little help and folks are often shocked when I'm steering them away from the $20 a quart oil for the $5.

 

[mr_boring]

Well said. I'm thinking back to when I was a new driver in the 1990s and after watching the Saturday morning infomercials went out and bought a Tornado Air Filter, Splitfire Spark Plugs, and ZMax engine and fuel additive. LOL. Not equating HPL to any of those sham marketing exercises by any means.

Even *if* and that seems to be proven wrong by the data, HPL turns out to be "no better" than Brand X, Y, Z.....I'd probably still be a customer because of their straight forwardness and involvement here in the community.

I decided to change out my carry ammo a few months ago. I've been carrying a very basic but very reliable HP (also very inexpensive, up until recently) for a looooong time. The price of that round is now much closer to what a 'premium super duper HP' runs. So - I said I might as well find me a fancy new one. I scoured the internet looking for data. I found good data, and a ton of data that isn't so good. I spent a ton of money buying a bunch of each of my final choices - had to buy a ton because I own more than 1 tool in that caliber and you have to test it in each tool. Then I had to buy a ton of water jugs AND a few pieces of meat because I needed to know how each round performs in those mediums.

Each round I tested performed very well. The internet had already told me that, but people commenting on forums and byotube videos detracting form EACH round despite solid data ate me up. Hundreds of dollars later, none of them really work a whole lot better than the basic slightly less expensive round that was once very cheap, and I like them all lol. So I had to buy more of all.......
Chasing the magick juice is human nature.

I'll never put down a product like HPL because it's some super good stuff. Is it EXPONENTIALLY better than top shelf stuff at walmart? Maybe. I'll be the judge......

If I was only going to change oil once every 20k - I might jump. I'll probably never feel that froggy. DI turbo's and all of that....


I totally remember buying a bottle of Slick 50. Sucker......

 

[Legal Eagles]

But how about 5,000 to 7,500 miles? Worried owner - German 4-cylinder cars with turbos!!

If you have a turbo or direct injection of any sort, you must change the oil every 1,500 miles.

This is the way.

 

[JustN89]

Again, this whole argument is based on a flawed premise - that this engine could even be fixed when/if that time came.

I've looked for a while now - Ebay, LKQ, etc. and I can't find a low mileage J37, let alone one under $3,300. I did find one for $2,800, but it came with 150k miles. At $40 more per oil change (rough guess, but I figured I’d err on the side of HPL costing more than expected compared to off-the-shelf), he'd have to change the oil 82 times before he broke even on just the cost of the used block itself. Who knows how much a reputable rebuilder would charge him to repair that engine. Even then, at the end of it all, it would still be a car pushing or over 2 decades old.

@cammyfive79's plan is just as financial sound as any other, unless he plans on 100+ oil changes.

 

[BHopkins]

I can totally relate to the OP.

When I first started following BITOG, if felt totally inadequate in comparison to the efforts that so many here put into caring for their cars. But after more time here, and reading of more experience from others, I have come to the conclusion that it isn't necessary to use products like HPL to take good care of our cars. Instead, I've come to the belief that regular periodic maintenance is much, much more important than using top of the line exotic lubricants, fluids, filters and such.

Exactly. This site is useful but also tends to get people into an unnecessary whirlwind. Pick a reputable oil but not at the cost of undue stress onto yourself.

Many of us have been there. Chasing the magick juice that gets our cars to last as long as Mad Max's beloved Interceptor.

If you take ALL of the VAST wealth of data here and look at it with a very broad view, which is a very good way to analyze a lot of data, you'll find that most any reputable oil in a weight between 0/20 and 5/40 will run most any given vehicle (gas powered street vehicles) until it falls apart. There are, indeed, exceptions.

HPL is some top tier stuff, quite possibly the best on the market today. I say that not because I have any first hand experience with it, I don't use it, but the people that DO use it post some pretty good data.

Will it matter in the long run whether you use HPL extra good or the HPL regular good? It was good of the formulation team to give you some insight there.

As with all things, you be the judge. Most folks on these forums call it something like "peace of mind"

I've mentioned it here on BITOG a few times before. Members of the unofficial "Million Mile Club" has always fascinated me. I've persisted in trying to find out specifics in their maintenance, particularly OCI and, oils and filters used. For those that I have found this info for, I only know of one who selected a premium (Amsoil) motor oil. One used Castrol GTX. Another let her local Toyota dealership do all her maintenance, so her Tacoma was likely filled with a bulk oil like Valvoline or Pennzoil.

So yea, we all need to find those products that give us that peace of mind, where we feel we are taking care of our cars. For some that may be HPL. For others it may be Pennzoil yellow bottle. And for others, it may be Super Tech.

 

[Sedin26]

Granted neither is a naturally aspirated 4 cylinder Honda or Toyota from 30-35 years ago but from my experience and attempting to compile owner experiences I’m fairly confident with quality fuel, oil, and filters both will get us to 100k or round about - our expected ownership cycle - without catastrophic issues. Sure, both could explode tomorrow at 9am but neither are ticking time bombs.

It’s the next day. Did they explode??

 

[hardcore302]

It's easy to overthink sometimes.

I find that when you really enjoy a hobby you tend to focus almost too much on small details. Not a bad thing. You are enjoying yourself, after all. I enjoy pellet guns. Rral guns also. How much of a difference is there REALLY between different brands and shapes of pellets? Not much, but I have 37 different tins. And a few on the way.

 

[cammyfive79]

It’s the next day. Did they explode??

LOL. I was shocked when they both started this morning without immolating themselves!

 

[cammyfive79]

I find that when you really enjoy a hobby you tend to focus almost too much on small details. Not a bad thing. You are enjoying yourself, after all. I enjoy pellet guns. Rral guns also. How much of a difference is there REALLY between different brands and shapes of pellets? Not much, but I have 37 different tins. And a few on the way.

I understand that. I'm really into higher end auto detailing so on one end of the spectrum you have folks that have no issue spending several thousand dollars (for starters) for a full paint correction and ceramic coating or boutique wax whereas on the other end you have people that claim any product on the clear coat "voids the warranty' and they let the rain "wash" it or simply don't care.

 

[fdcg27]

Critic has been a working wrench for some years so he knows from where he speaks. His comments are borne of knowledge, not malice.
dnewton is data driven and does not offer opinions without data to back them up.
Neither is in any way toxic, but rather merely telling it like it is with no sugarcoating.
To the OP, I think you can expect 100K out of both of your rides without major failures using nothing more than a moderately priced oil that meets manufacturer's spec recommendations in whatever grade you decide to use.
It's really later in engine life that you can anticipate the likelihood of serious problems and what some here are trying to tell you is that no oil can prevent this.

 

[joekingcorvette]

I keep my oil changes simple too. The Honda, Jeep and Ford are easy. The Corvette is not too bad and the Civic and Jeep get the MityVac change. I keep it clean and actually enjoy changing oil and filters.

 

[cammyfive79]

Critic has been a working wrench for some years so he knows from where he speaks. His comments are borne of knowledge, not malice.
dnewton is data driven and does not offer opinions without data to back them up.
Neither is in any way toxic, but rather merely telling it like it is with no sugarcoating.
To the OP, I think you can expect 100K out of both of your rides without major failures using nothing more than a moderately priced oil that meets manufacturer's spec recommendations in whatever grade you decide to use.
It's really later in engine life that you can anticipate the likelihood of serious problems and what some here are trying to tell you is that no oil can prevent this.

I realize that is what they were trying to convey but your articulation is more concise and less terse. I view the higher end boutique oils/filters as a hobby; reading here and then using those products are "fun" for me. I don't expect any product to double my fuel economy, add 100 more horsepower, or virtually guarantee a million trouble free miles. I don't really care about the cost difference of HPL vs say any big box brand that is on sale. If spending a little more for HPL with its data proven superior cleaning formula keeps the insides of my Acura V6 cleaner and less likely to become an oil burner in a few years it's a double win for me. Using the same in my wife's Mazda is more about convenience and just supporting a small business that is involved here. Heaven forbid something goes catastrophically wrong with either car later outside of warranty, the few bucks I spent on one oil over another won't influence my ability to repair it.

 

[cammyfive79]

I find that when you really enjoy a hobby you tend to focus almost too much on small details. Not a bad thing. You are enjoying yourself, after all. I enjoy pellet guns. Rral guns also. How much of a difference is there REALLY between different brands and shapes of pellets? Not much, but I have 37 different tins. And a few on the way.

Well said. The amount of auto detailing supplies that I use and test/experiment with is "my thing".

 

[53' Stude]

I must admit that in my short time as an active member here I've drunk from the firehouse of knowledge here and, at times, convinced myself that my daily driver requires a 70 step process prior to an oil change and then another dozen steps every time I drive it. Exaggeration for sure, but I think I went down the rabbit hole too quickly being a bit new. After exchanging a few DMs with Dave at @High Performance Lubricants I am no longer convinced that I HAVE to have the Super Car Series oil for my 2013 Acura TL, haha. It is nice to be told by a company rep that I should save my money and even their standard Passenger Car Oil in 5W30 is way better than my or my wife's car (2021 Mazda CX-9) would need. Plus, I will be running the same HPL PCO 5W30 (Acura suggests 5W20 and I immediately switched to 5W30 when I bought it; wife's car specifies 5W30 with the 2.5T Skyactiv direct injection engine) in both so I can just buy that oil in large quantities.

None of that is to say I don't run thought experiments in my head reading some of the threads with some of you guys do the real work of analyzing oil samples, cutting open filters, and really deep diving into the pool of specs.

Wake me when you decide what to do.

 

[JeffKeryk]

That comment really stings, it's just nasty. It's as if someone has slammed the door right in the face of a newcomer, first time here in this online forum. It's a real downer and such a disappointing way to make people feel like they don't belong here.

@The Critic is a friend of mine. I can tell you he comes from a straight up numbers standpoint; calculating with the best data he has.
If he states something, he is giving you his honest best advice based on experience. He criticizes his own vehicles when he feels it necessary.
He will also bend over backwards to help you on a moments notice.
Now if he would just kick down with that Corolla... My younger grand nieces are starting to drive!

Regarding boutique oils, my unscientific but real world opinion is, if they were that much better the proof would be out there. I struggle to accept they are. For me, 5K OCI with quality synthetics works. And my cars are long runners.