Is middle class really at least 6 figures?

[WillsYoda]

The expenses that are considered "necessary for middle class living" are WAY WAY UP since 1950. Today "middle class households" think they need multiple TVs, multiple guns, multiple computers, smartphones, multiple cars, a larger house, eating out regularly at restaurants, etc. In 1950, a middle class home would at most have one car (or none at all if walking to the factory), one TV (or none at all), have a much smaller house, would go out to eat at restaurants very rarely, have a cheap rifle or shotgun handed down from their father and grandfather, etc. Middle class people brought brown bags for lunch everyday. They obviously did not have laptops and smartphones.

People are simply spending much more money today on too many luxuries that they think is needed for middle class living. People should brownbag it, eat out a few times a year, live in smaller houses, use their grandpas' gun, own fewer and older cars, etc.

 

[bigj_16]

With my former job

, I transferred to the Denver Metro in 2012, from Southern California. I was sitting in the personnel office with another guy, who had just come from western Indiana. I was telling him how much cheaper it was to live here, and he was telling me how much more expensive it was to live here.
It absolutely is location dependent, as another poster said.

 

[robertcope]

Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
Originally Posted By: Dumc87
Maybe I missed a huge exit off this highway of life, cause $50K seems luxurious to me.


Same here! $50K income here in Tx will buy you a mansion. DFW,Tx was ranked as the most affordable big city in the US to live,followed by Houston recently. Middle class here is in the $30K range.


You have to be joking. Maybe in some parts of Texas. In Houston, DFW, Austin, $30K is poverty range. Middle class might start in the $100K range here in Houston. Maybe. I'd probably call it $125-150. Just my warped view, of course.

 

[Dumc87]

Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
Originally Posted By: Dumc87
Maybe I missed a huge exit off this highway of life, cause $50K seems luxurious to me.


Same here! $50K income here in Tx will buy you a mansion. DFW,Tx was ranked as the most affordable big city in the US to live,followed by Houston recently. Middle class here is in the $30K range.



Well, I like Texas

What drives the economy in DFW? In Central Florida, a majority of it is tourism, thanks to the Mouse

 

[ZZman]

Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
CincyDavid,


Zzman,

Thanks to a Bozo.... companies feel full-time employees are too expensive and now only want per diem and part-time workers with zero benefits. Full-time is now only 30 hours per week and lots of businesses don't want (need) expensive employees.

I guess the dog and pony show is coming to fruition.... and all these college students are second guessing their voting history.
Everything is sunshine and roses, young adults just need to keep drinking the Kool-Aid from their college provided sippy cups.

The system was in decline way before him. Outsourcing and globalization have played a factor. Large corps gobbling up more and more businesses and making workers numbers on a spread sheet instead of valuable assets. Wall Street and shareholders over America and the worker. Healthcare that always has been too expensive.

 

[Andrew1972]

Originally Posted By: ZZman
Many would say the median income around $52,000 is middle class. But with two income households and Billionaires throwing the average off, isn't at least 6 figures more realistic for a decent middle class life?
I am talking the American Dream: good house, cars, vacations, savings, retirement accounts, sending kids to college etc


Where you specifically live makes a massive difference. My locale median household income is $100k. Median home price in town is $600k. My home value is below median, 10 & 12 yr old cars together worth $7000, vacations hard and college expensive and in future. Our income over the local median.

If we moved 50 miles north or anywhere else inland different picture of middle class. I live 10 miles inland from Atlantic

 

[ZZman]

Originally Posted By: WillsYoda
The expenses that are considered "necessary for middle class living" are WAY WAY UP since 1950.


True. But income and wealth inequality was also much lower. The middle class was growing.

 

[14Accent]

At 28, single, working a trade (auto mechanic), living in the lower end area of town, I do just fine. 50-55k a year plus another 9k in rental income from my roommate. I own my house and have a ~$1,200/mo mortgage, no car payment, no extra toys but plenty of nice things. My IRA is well funded and the market has been doing well.

As others have said, it's about location and life choices.

 

[ZZman]

Originally Posted By: WillsYoda
The expenses that are considered "necessary for middle class living" are WAY WAY UP since 1950.

People are simply spending much more money today on too many luxuries that they think is needed for middle class living.


Well they want what other Americans have. The difference in the 50's was one income usually made you middle class. Now you almost always need two incomes or two jobs and credit to help live the dream.

 

[Rolla07]

The government taxes all our money away..over a 100k household here means nothing with house prices and food prices. I think middle class here would likely sit at 120-125k a year (dont ask what that is after taxes, 55% of that??!)

I am curious though about you folks down south, lets say you earn 20$ per hour and worked 80 hrs over 2 weeks. That makes 1600$, what is your take home? Do you get taxed much? Curious to know your difference between gross & net. I know it may be different per state. Just curious!

 

[StevieC]

Originally Posted By: Rolla07
The government taxes all our money away..over a 100k household here means nothing with house prices and food prices. I think middle class here would likely sit at 120-125k a year (dont ask what that is after taxes, 55% of that??!)

I am curious though about you folks down south, lets say you earn 20$ per hour and worked 80 hrs over 2 weeks. That makes 1600$, what is your take home? Do you get taxed much? Curious to know your difference between gross & net. I know it may be different per state. Just curious!


My Brother lives in Boston, I live in Ontario. He pays less income tax than me but he pays more in other areas like housing costs / property taxes etc. We earn about the same amount per household with currency conversion factored in and we pay about the same taxes. He has to pay for his health care on top of this which is about $480/month.

 

[ZZman]

Originally Posted By: 14Accent
At 28, single, working a trade (auto mechanic), living in the lower end area of town, I do just fine. 50-55k a year plus another 9k in rental income from my roommate. I own my house and have a ~$1,200/mo mortgage, no car payment, no extra toys but plenty of nice things. My IRA is well funded and the market has been doing well.

As others have said, it's about location and life choices.


That sounds right. The roommate pays most of the mortgage and that is great pay for a 28 year old. I never hit that income for one job until about 45 yrs old.....

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: Rolla07


I am curious though about you folks down south, lets say you earn 20$ per hour and worked 80 hrs over 2 weeks. That makes 1600$, what is your take home? Do you get taxed much? Curious to know your difference between gross & net. I know it may be different per state. Just curious!

So that's $41,600 a year, gross. Around here, after you deduct federal, state, and local taxes, filing as single, you'd have about $32,000 net left.

And then you'll have to pay sales tax, property tax, health insurance premiums, etc. on top of that.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: mightymousetech
Originally Posted By: jeepman3071
There is a difference between "middle class" and average pay. Middle class might be $100,000+ but average income is not that. Combined income would be closer to that.


Also this. Middle class is listed as "household income" up to $125k here, or $55.5k for an individual.

But this is an average for all of Canada. Making $55k in Toronto or Vancouver, you will be living quite tight.


I would say that's accurate. I'm about 90 minutes outside Toronto and we live quite comfortably but could not afford our present house and maintain our lifestyle if it was in Toronto, as it would be worth ~4x as much as we paid for it and that would have a significant impact on our disposable income.

 

[StevieC]

Toronto and Vancouver are real-estate over inflated markets compared to incomes.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: StevieC
Toronto and Vancouver are real-estate over inflated markets compared to incomes.

And it is pushing out. Local property values are on a significant uptick thanks to GTA creep. Great if you are selling and moving somewhere cheaper, not so great if you want to relocate somewhere within the same area.

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: ZZman

I am talking the American Dream: good house, cars, vacations, savings, retirement accounts, sending kids to college etc


I live in a high(er)-end suburb of the San Francisco Bay Area. The young couples (30-35) who are living the American dream, at least the ones that are friends of mine, are generally professionals who are doing well in their careers and are averaging about $250k/yr in household income. These are folks with an average older home and average cars.

 

[StevieC]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: StevieC
Toronto and Vancouver are real-estate over inflated markets compared to incomes.

And it is pushing out. Local property values are on a significant uptick thanks to GTA creep. Great if you are selling and moving somewhere cheaper, not so great if you want to relocate somewhere within the same area.


Same here in Hamilton. My house price has doubled in 5 years and they continue to go up. Hamilton used to be dirt cheap. Good for me because I got in to ride this wave but bad for folks just starting out looking to work in the GTA / Toronto.

 

[ZZman]

Originally Posted By: Rolla07
The government taxes all our money away..over a 100k household here means nothing with house prices and food prices. I think middle class here would likely sit at 120-125k a year (dont ask what that is after taxes, 55% of that??!)

I am curious though about you folks down south, lets say you earn 20$ per hour and worked 80 hrs over 2 weeks. That makes 1600$, what is your take home? Do you get taxed much? Curious to know your difference between gross & net. I know it may be different per state. Just curious!


It is all relative. They usually make less money in the South but make up for it with lower housing costs and lower taxes.

 

[Yah-Tah-Hey]

There is such a blur between needs and wants that not being able to live on $100,000 a year is not a problem of income but a flaw in understanding how to manage income. Ten year old kids don't need a smartphone, don't need to attend a dance studio, don't need to attend some concert, don't really need many of the things little Johnny or Jane next door have. Not having the latest and greatest or season tickets at Memorial Stadium is not extreme deprivation or even close to it. Neither is having a perfect smile or attending a parochial school. In our city, families with a hundred grand a year coming in live in nicer homes than we do. And they aren't driving fourteen year old vehicles. Make that several vehicles.