Is middle class really at least 6 figures?

[Panzerman]

No way $100,000 is middle class. I am originally from Pennsylvania and have lived in Florida for 16 years now and I know very, very few people that make a $100,000 or more.
These are people that own their own homes, have two cars and work with kids.
My philosophy always was people are like a alligator in a tank and you can only get as big as your tank.
Too many people try to chase that dream of the $100,000 lifestyle that's why we see so many bankruptcies plus people are in debt up to thier neck.
It's not how much you make but how savvy you spend what you got. I am going to say the middle class average in America is $60,000 based on 50% above that and 50% below that. That said I know plenty of people who make $40,000 a year with kids and live just fine. No trips to Europe, but have a roof over thier head and eat fine and enjoy life.

 

[CincyDavid]

I have 2 kids in college...one in Civil Engineering...if he makes it through school he'll have a nice starting income and opportunities. The other is barely getting by with a Communications major and will likely have a HORRIBLE time getting her "big girl job" when she finally graduates. She is a waitress and bartender evenings and weekends and in all likelihood she'll continue with that once she graduates. To be perfectly honest, she shouldn't have bothered with college at all...she wasn't interested and has done as little as possible to get by.

Nothing wrong with learning a trade...I worked with bodymen and painters who made in excess of $100k and enjoyed what they do. My plumber is a one-man-show who is semi-retired and has made a very nice living for his family. Not every kid needs to go to college.

Life is hard, being an adult can be a drag.

 

[IndyIan]

Originally Posted By: Dumc87
It's strange to me how people can talk about six-figure incomes being easy to attain.. I'm 30, beeing working full time, while pursuing a college degree. Maybe I missed a huge exit off this highway of life, cause $50K seems luxurious to me.

Side note: I believe a lot of these "oppresion" issues are socio-economic, not race driven.

If you want that kind of money, you do have to plan on how to get those jobs, and then make sure your the guy whose climbing the ladder.
You can live well on 100k though, just not with a lot of new expensive toys, or a big mortgage. There are alot of ways to burn money, but its not required to enjoy life!

 

[aquariuscsm]

Originally Posted By: Dumc87
Originally Posted By: xshoex
In my town I dont know what the average income in but if you bring home 35ish you'll live pretty good


It's a poverty life for me, as I make under 35K lol



Welcome to the club! Haha

 

[Alfred_B]

Originally Posted By: tom slick
It depends on where you live. In the county where I live $65k is considered “poverty level” for a family by HUD.


For a family of 12?

 

[HangFire]

Originally Posted By: Dumc87
It's strange to me how people can talk about six-figure incomes being easy to attain.. I'm 30, beeing working full time, while pursuing a college degree. Maybe I missed a huge exit off this highway of life, cause $50K seems luxurious to me.


Graduates in in-demand Engineering fields get 50-60K as a starting salary, depending on location, demand, and their grades. From there it goes up to $130K, after that you need to be a business owner, get into management, etc.

Business majors are a dime a dozen in the employment field, but start your own business in the Trades (HVAC, Electrician, Plumbing, etc.) and be successful and you could be pulling down 200K or more. Start the next hot franchise system and you could be a billionaire.

One of the keys to good living is live in a depressed rural area and work in a thriving area. Taxes and services are less, you just have to carefully manage your commuting costs. By the time you retire, the thriving area will have expanded and consumed your neighborhood, and you'll have greatly increased property values.

(I say depressed rural area, because if you live in a depressed urban area, you'll lose everything to theft and vandalism).

 

[SZR48207]

I live in another one of those places where a married couple with each one making at least $50k/year means they're doing quite well economically. Nobody will be buying a Ferrari anytime, but housing is affordable and a respectable retirement is very possible while still enjoying life.

 

[aquariuscsm]

Originally Posted By: CincyDavid
I have 2 kids in college...one in Civil Engineering...if he makes it through school he'll have a nice starting income and opportunities. The other is barely getting by with a Communications major and will likely have a HORRIBLE time getting her "big girl job" when she finally graduates. She is a waitress and bartender evenings and weekends and in all likelihood she'll continue with that once she graduates. To be perfectly honest, she shouldn't have bothered with college at all...she wasn't interested and has done as little as possible to get by.

Nothing wrong with learning a trade...I worked with bodymen and painters who made in excess of $100k and enjoyed what they do. My plumber is a one-man-show who is semi-retired and has made a very nice living for his family. Not every kid needs to go to college.

Life is hard, being an adult can be a drag.


This is one of the best posts I've ever read. I had a gf back in the 90s who was going to college for Communications (the first thought that came to me,if you're already in your 20s and have to go to college to learn to communicate,you're sol!). She worked as a grocery store cashier while she was in school. Of course she's always have these sleazy remarks to me about why I didn't get a 4 year degree,and how I was beneath her,etc,so I eventually told her to f-off. Of course that didn't last too long.

Fast forward 10-15 years later,she shows up at my job and wanted to "start over". I was flattered and was thinking like all guys do because she was smoking HOT!!,and was thinking this could be a VERY good night

. I meet her and she has an ever hotter Latina friend with her who was all over me. Well,she was still a cashier at that same grocery store and I went home with her hot friend. Something else that happened to her,she wound up with this white trash guy that wouldn't work or even try to get a job who ended up beating her up and broke her collarbone. I had one word for her,Karma!!

On a positive note your daughter will be able to get a really good paying office job with her Liberal Arts degree,no nights,weekends,or holidays,and the fact that she works two jobs while going to school shows she has an awesome work ethic and is a very hard worker. I'd be very proud of her!

 

[Tundragod]

Well said.

 

[jeepman3071]

Originally Posted By: Panzerman
No way $100,000 is middle class. I am originally from Pennsylvania and have lived in Florida for 16 years now and I know very, very few people that make a $100,000 or more.
These are people that own their own homes, have two cars and work with kids.
My philosophy always was people are like a alligator in a tank and you can only get as big as your tank.
Too many people try to chase that dream of the $100,000 lifestyle that's why we see so many bankruptcies plus people are in debt up to thier neck.
It's not how much you make but how savvy you spend what you got. I am going to say the middle class average in America is $60,000 based on 50% above that and 50% below that. That said I know plenty of people who make $40,000 a year with kids and live just fine. No trips to Europe, but have a roof over their head and eat fine and enjoy life.



It certainly is a tough line to draw. I'd say a better measure wouldn't be the "middle income" but the most common income range. The average is hard to measure because it is different in many areas. Look how many people in Hollywood are multi-million dollar earners, that probably skews the average a bit.

Considering that you can finance practically anything these days, achieving that "millionaire lifestyle" without the millions part seems to be easier for a lot of people. While income is important, managing money seems to be a bigger problem. I know families with "average" income who are doing very well and some others with higher incomes that are practically bankrupt and living paycheck to paycheck.

 

[SevenBizzos]

Very very location dependent. Where I live, a family of four probably NEEDS to make $60k just to have a "normal" life (place to live, car, and all necessities). So I'd start the "middle class" at $80k or so. I'd guess you'd have to get over $100k to get out of the "paycheck to paycheck" life and have a little breathing room.

 

[aquariuscsm]

Originally Posted By: Dumc87
Maybe I missed a huge exit off this highway of life, cause $50K seems luxurious to me.


Same here! $50K income here in Tx will buy you a mansion. DFW,Tx was ranked as the most affordable big city in the US to live,followed by Houston recently. Middle class here is in the $30K range.

 

[Mr Nice]

Originally Posted By: SevenBizzos
Very very location dependent. Where I live, a family of four probably NEEDS to make $60k just to have a "normal" life (place to live, car, and all necessities). So I'd start the "middle class" at $80k or so. I'd guess you'd have to get over $100k to get out of the "paycheck to paycheck" life and have a little breathing room.


I know 2 coworkers at my job that transferred from New Jersey to central Florida and other coworkers were wondering why they were make $5 more an hour for the same exact job.

I told them in New Jersey the cost of living is more expensive and they kept their hourly pay when relocating to Florida.

 

[mightymousetech]

Originally Posted By: jeepman3071
There is a difference between "middle class" and average pay. Middle class might be $100,000+ but average income is not that. Combined income would be closer to that.


Also this. Middle class is listed as "household income" up to $125k here, or $55.5k for an individual.

But this is an average for all of Canada. Making $55k in Toronto or Vancouver, you will be living quite tight.

 

[javacontour]

Originally Posted By: CincyDavid
Every year when I do our taxes I marvel at our gross income. I also marvel at how much we pay in taxes. I was thinking the other day that we've been paying into 401(k)s and 403(b)s and an IRA and we have finally hit the tipping point where it's starting to look like real money. I keep trying to impress on the kids that it took us 30 years to get to the point where we're getting comfortable, and we still don't buy luxury cars or vacation properties, and likely never will.



It is nice when you get the point where your gains (and losses) in your accounts each period are larger than the contributions you make over the same period.

I have impressed upon my kids to start funding their 401(k)s early. My 19 year old has been putting money in her Starbucks 401(k) since she turned 18. She got a raise and I suggested she bump up her contributions as she won't miss the extra money since she got the raise. She did.

Good girl!

Compounding returns is the way to go. Doubling your money every 7 years or so is not a bad deal.

 

[jeepman3071]

Originally Posted By: CincyDavid
The other is barely getting by with a Communications major and will likely have a HORRIBLE time getting her "big girl job" when she finally graduates. She is a waitress and bartender evenings and weekends and in all likelihood she'll continue with that once she graduates. To be perfectly honest, she shouldn't have bothered with college at all...she wasn't interested and has done as little as possible to get by.


I agree that there is nothing wrong with getting a trade.

With your daughter's work ethic though, she should be okay. If she has a good work ethic and can communicate well with people, she will be set. I have two friends about the same age who have kind of bogus degrees. One has a history degree, the other has an arts degree of some sort, I forget exactly what it is. The one with the arts degree pretty much did nothing in college, barely worked, played video games all day, etc. He does okay now, but isn't a go-getter. The guy with the history degree worked two jobs in college, coached a high school basketball team, and volunteered for other things.

He now works at an aero-engineering company making $70k supporting a customer service helpdesk system and got his personal trainers license so he can train people on weekends. Unless you have an engineering, finance, medical degree, or some other higher degree, the other degrees are really there to prove you can "do it". Many of my friends have jobs in fields that were not their field of study. My Uncle has a Sociology degree but is the IT director making $250k at a local University.

 

[CincyDavid]

I have an economics degree that I earned in 1989...have never directly used it, beyond needing a degree to get my first "real" job. My wife has a Masters in Nursing and has created a really nice career for herself.

If I had to do it over again, I would have tried a heck of a lot harder in college. I keep telling my kids that the whole trajectory of their career is determined by how well they perform (and what they study) in college. Chasing girls and drinking too much was not a great plan, as it turns out.

 

[ZZman]

I think for the "avg" American the American Dream has become harder. We have lost millions of good paying manufacturing jobs. Low wage service jobs have replaced these and automation is eliminating even more jobs. Add to that loss of pensions, having to fund your retirement, high college costs and having to foot more of medical bills and you can see the issues.

 

[Alfred_B]

I always thought that if you didn't finish college, you couldn't be middle class and were working class regardless of the money you made. But in the US, race almost always plays a defining role in social, societal and economic constructs so you can be middle class and not be a college grad if you are white high school graduate.
.
From the St Louis Fed

 

[Mr Nice]

CincyDavid,

Don't forget in any career field, there are definitely certain people you meet that can open doors for you. A masters degreee with a 4.0 GPA won't mean squat if you are spinning your career wheels with zero traction. Contacts at your employer can tip you off to future openings and jobs.




Zzman,

Thanks to a Bozo.... companies feel full-time employees are too expensive and now only want per diem and part-time workers with zero benefits. Full-time is now only 30 hours per week and lots of businesses don't want (need) expensive employees.

I guess the dog and pony show is coming to fruition.... and all these college students are second guessing their voting history.
Everything is sunshine and roses, young adults just need to keep drinking the Kool-Aid from their college provided sippy cups.