Is middle class really at least 6 figures?
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Sorry I didn't mean that colour didn't matter like it's not important what I meant was how is colour important when it comes to opportunity. Does that level of racism exist so blatantly that someone wouldn't hire someone because of their colour or because of someones colour they don't qualify for certain things white folks would?
That's what I was getting at.
That's what I was getting at.
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Originally Posted By: StevieC
Sorry I didn't mean that colour didn't matter like it's not important what I meant was how is colour important when it comes to opportunity. Does that level of racism exist so blatantly that someone wouldn't hire someone because of their colour or because of someones colour they don't qualify for certain things white folks would?
That's what I was getting at.
I think it is often more subtle or ingrained. We are most comfortable around people like us. Color, socioeconomic level, religion, politics etc.
Sorry I didn't mean that colour didn't matter like it's not important what I meant was how is colour important when it comes to opportunity. Does that level of racism exist so blatantly that someone wouldn't hire someone because of their colour or because of someones colour they don't qualify for certain things white folks would?
That's what I was getting at.
I think it is often more subtle or ingrained. We are most comfortable around people like us. Color, socioeconomic level, religion, politics etc.
CA $100k combined income is barely middle class. Hard to buy a new car and house it a lot of counties.
Originally Posted By: javacontour
However, what changes the outcome in MOST (not all) cases is attitude.
I'd like to think in 21st Century America, it's more about attitude than it is race.
Again, not saying there are not bigoted knuckleheads out there. What I'm saying is they are much less a factor these days.
Agreed! I started my work career as a 19 year old long-haired college dropout hippy working as a bottle washer in a laboratory at the lowest pay in the company. After 21 years and 12 promotions later I was a vice president and the third highest paid employee in the company, and 16 years later retired set for life at age 56. My success had nothing to do with my color, education, or contacts - it had everything to do with my attitude. I worked as if I owned the company and gave a darn about the company's success rather than my own. Positive attitude, friendly cooperation, and taking initiative is noticed my managers, and when they see potential they mentor and guide you. As an executive I was always on the look out for those rare employees who had the right stuff and who I could develop.
Of course performance is also critical, but performance skills can be taught, and honed with experience. Attitude, however, is difficult to instill. If you just put in your time and don't care about the company, the company will not care about you. If you have a positive attitude and work like a shareholder, doors will open. I never saw such an employee held back because of race - I didn't care if you were purple with yellow polka-dots if you you worked hard and cared, and that was also the attitude of other managers, right up to the top.
Tom NJ/VA
However, what changes the outcome in MOST (not all) cases is attitude.
I'd like to think in 21st Century America, it's more about attitude than it is race.
Again, not saying there are not bigoted knuckleheads out there. What I'm saying is they are much less a factor these days.
Agreed! I started my work career as a 19 year old long-haired college dropout hippy working as a bottle washer in a laboratory at the lowest pay in the company. After 21 years and 12 promotions later I was a vice president and the third highest paid employee in the company, and 16 years later retired set for life at age 56. My success had nothing to do with my color, education, or contacts - it had everything to do with my attitude. I worked as if I owned the company and gave a darn about the company's success rather than my own. Positive attitude, friendly cooperation, and taking initiative is noticed my managers, and when they see potential they mentor and guide you. As an executive I was always on the look out for those rare employees who had the right stuff and who I could develop.
Of course performance is also critical, but performance skills can be taught, and honed with experience. Attitude, however, is difficult to instill. If you just put in your time and don't care about the company, the company will not care about you. If you have a positive attitude and work like a shareholder, doors will open. I never saw such an employee held back because of race - I didn't care if you were purple with yellow polka-dots if you you worked hard and cared, and that was also the attitude of other managers, right up to the top.
Tom NJ/VA
The American dream for many is perhaps a house unless they live in some of these areas where houses are out of reach even for 100K plus techies. Silicon valley and LA come to mind. Vacations are a pipe dream for many, maybe a small savings , jobs with retirement are getting hard to come by, I told my kids if they wanted college that uncle Sam would be their best bet. My parents never owed me college and I do not owe them college. Here in midwest a couple making 50- 75 K can probably become home owners of a modest home in the 80 to 120K range, granted a house here will need some work and some fixing up. Many of the families I know who live in these big 250 to 400k homes are struggling with the payments because their eyes got too big for their wallets, hence they are "house poor" they have the nice house and cars but are in a home where half the rooms have no furniture since they cannot afford it. Plus these big home cost a lot to heat and cool square footage is square footage. Midle class here in this area is probably 50 t0 70k per year. In LA an income of 50 k would leave one homeless. depends where one is living. IMO if a person can at least have a house or at least reasonable rent, a reliable vehicle, a job with a pension and if one is luck at least 5K in a savings account that is doing good... vacations and paying for a kids collge is nice but few will be able to do that.
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Originally Posted By: robertcope
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
Originally Posted By: Dumc87
Maybe I missed a huge exit off this highway of life, cause $50K seems luxurious to me.
Same here! $50K income here in Tx will buy you a mansion. DFW,Tx was ranked as the most affordable big city in the US to live,followed by Houston recently. Middle class here is in the $30K range.
You have to be joking. Maybe in some parts of Texas. In Houston, DFW, Austin, $30K is poverty range. Middle class might start in the $100K range here in Houston. Maybe. I'd probably call it $125-150. Just my warped view, of course.
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/03/30/how-much...very-state.html
TEXAS,Household of one: $23,249 to $69,745
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
Originally Posted By: Dumc87
Maybe I missed a huge exit off this highway of life, cause $50K seems luxurious to me.
Same here! $50K income here in Tx will buy you a mansion. DFW,Tx was ranked as the most affordable big city in the US to live,followed by Houston recently. Middle class here is in the $30K range.
You have to be joking. Maybe in some parts of Texas. In Houston, DFW, Austin, $30K is poverty range. Middle class might start in the $100K range here in Houston. Maybe. I'd probably call it $125-150. Just my warped view, of course.
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/03/30/how-much...very-state.html
TEXAS,Household of one: $23,249 to $69,745
Originally Posted By: ZZman
Originally Posted By: StevieC
Sorry I didn't mean that colour didn't matter like it's not important what I meant was how is colour important when it comes to opportunity. Does that level of racism exist so blatantly that someone wouldn't hire someone because of their colour or because of someones colour they don't qualify for certain things white folks would?
That's what I was getting at.
I think it is often more subtle or ingrained. We are most comfortable around people like us. Color, socioeconomic level, religion, politics etc.
I think up here it's a tad bit different because we are so well integrated. I'm not saying racism and other problems don't exist but I don't think it's anywhere near what it sounds like might be a problem south of the border.
I actually work for a wonderful Muslim family that originally come from the middle east and I work along side some really great folks from China, Jamaica and various countries in Africa. Me and a few other "white" folks are sort of the minority if we were looking at colour alone but you wouldn't know it by the way we all get along.
My neighbourhood is considered "average" and has a mix of just about everything on the street. We all have community garage sales each summer where we all participate on the same day. We watch our neighbourhood for each other and actually know one another.
Previous places of employment I worked heavily with East Indian and Pakistani no issues there.
I had a previous relationship with a nice girl of Jamacian descent all through high-school and the whole time we were together no one ever caused a problem for us or looked at us differently and we went to some places that were primarily "white" and primarily "black" populated events etc.
I don't know maybe we are a bit more integrated but I honestly don't see colour, race, religion etc. in "that" sort of way. I could care less and it seems most of us up here don't either. (We aren't perfect though... We have our population of folks that think otherwise but it's largely in check and not tolerated by the general populous.)
I'm actually saddened to know that it's not this way in all developed countries and that there still is a divide.
Anyway I'll leave it here because I don't want to spark any kind of debate that might turn.
Originally Posted By: StevieC
Sorry I didn't mean that colour didn't matter like it's not important what I meant was how is colour important when it comes to opportunity. Does that level of racism exist so blatantly that someone wouldn't hire someone because of their colour or because of someones colour they don't qualify for certain things white folks would?
That's what I was getting at.
I think it is often more subtle or ingrained. We are most comfortable around people like us. Color, socioeconomic level, religion, politics etc.
I think up here it's a tad bit different because we are so well integrated. I'm not saying racism and other problems don't exist but I don't think it's anywhere near what it sounds like might be a problem south of the border.
I actually work for a wonderful Muslim family that originally come from the middle east and I work along side some really great folks from China, Jamaica and various countries in Africa. Me and a few other "white" folks are sort of the minority if we were looking at colour alone but you wouldn't know it by the way we all get along.
My neighbourhood is considered "average" and has a mix of just about everything on the street. We all have community garage sales each summer where we all participate on the same day. We watch our neighbourhood for each other and actually know one another.
Previous places of employment I worked heavily with East Indian and Pakistani no issues there.
I had a previous relationship with a nice girl of Jamacian descent all through high-school and the whole time we were together no one ever caused a problem for us or looked at us differently and we went to some places that were primarily "white" and primarily "black" populated events etc.
I don't know maybe we are a bit more integrated but I honestly don't see colour, race, religion etc. in "that" sort of way. I could care less and it seems most of us up here don't either. (We aren't perfect though... We have our population of folks that think otherwise but it's largely in check and not tolerated by the general populous.)
I'm actually saddened to know that it's not this way in all developed countries and that there still is a divide.
Anyway I'll leave it here because I don't want to spark any kind of debate that might turn.
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I was surprised when I moved to Detroit from California. The neighborhoods here are very segregated. Detroit is like 90% African american. And the suburbs are fairly segregated also. California is much more integrated as far as ethnicities to. It’s a shame really that the cultures can’t find a way to respect each other. Color isn’t the problem, culture clashes is. Poverty isn’t the problem either. Kids growing up in houses with screaming parents, mom’s with multiple move-in, temporary boyfriends, and parents that see their kids as nothing more than welfare checks perpetuates the never ending cycle of trouble for Detroit. I know plenty of people that grew up with very little but are some of the nicest people, and they credit their loving parents for it.
I think a lost part of the American dream today is what’s behind the white-picket fence and cozy house and car: a functioning, stable family. Super high divorce rates, child abuse, name-calling, “You’re so stupid, boy!” For all my complaining about money, I suppose I should be grateful for having a Father that taught me to survive independently, not relying on government hand-outs or manipulating others for money.
I think a lost part of the American dream today is what’s behind the white-picket fence and cozy house and car: a functioning, stable family. Super high divorce rates, child abuse, name-calling, “You’re so stupid, boy!” For all my complaining about money, I suppose I should be grateful for having a Father that taught me to survive independently, not relying on government hand-outs or manipulating others for money.
I agree with you on the Nebraska season tickets, I know of a few people here in Lincoln who really cannot afford the season football tickets but will max out their credit cards just to keep the tickets and these tickets go up without fail each and every year.Plus many lose a days pay at work too because they have to take off and lose hours just to go to a football game. I knew of one family who were 6 months into home foreclosure and struggling with mortgage( basically a mansion house on a bungalow budget) but they would rather lose the house than let those season tickets expire. Crazy IMO,but for the football fanatics around here, I guess it is perfectly logical.
ls1mike
$50 Site Donor 2024
I have been blessed. I won't complain. All the training I received on Submarines has paid off. I have a degree I will never use. I make more money working on Submarines as an SME. There were some sacrifices to get to this point like missing funerals, birthdays, holidays...well you get it. My wife does well too.
I do work some unscheduled overtime but I don't mind. Maybe 10 to 20 hours a month on average. Sometime there is none depending on the situation. It is government job, but fixing Submarines is no like the DMV or the tax collector.
We try to give back as much as possible.
I do work some unscheduled overtime but I don't mind. Maybe 10 to 20 hours a month on average. Sometime there is none depending on the situation. It is government job, but fixing Submarines is no like the DMV or the tax collector.
Originally Posted By: Tom NJ
Originally Posted By: javacontour
However, what changes the outcome in MOST (not all) cases is attitude.
I'd like to think in 21st Century America, it's more about attitude than it is race.
Again, not saying there are not bigoted knuckleheads out there. What I'm saying is they are much less a factor these days.
Agreed! I started my work career as a 19 year old long-haired college dropout hippy working as a bottle washer in a laboratory at the lowest pay in the company. After 21 years and 12 promotions later I was a vice president and the third highest paid employee in the company, and 16 years later retired set for life at age 56. My success had nothing to do with my color, education, or contacts - it had everything to do with my attitude. I worked as if I owned the company and gave a darn about the company's success rather than my own. Positive attitude, friendly cooperation, and taking initiative is noticed my managers, and when they see potential they mentor and guide you. As an executive I was always on the look out for those rare employees who had the right stuff and who I could develop.
Of course performance is also critical, but performance skills can be taught, and honed with experience. Attitude, however, is difficult to instill. If you just put in your time and don't care about the company, the company will not care about you. If you have a positive attitude and work like a shareholder, doors will open. I never saw such an employee held back because of race - I didn't care if you were purple with yellow polka-dots if you you worked hard and cared, and that was also the attitude of other managers, right up to the top.
Tom NJ/VA
This is a situation most hope for. The company I am about to leave, doesn't share the "hard work, happy worker, gets promoted" ideal. After 10 years, I've yet to gain a promotion. A few pay raises, but no promotion. The irony is I've trained several people who went on to move up. Without going into details, and obviously no one knows the details of my last 10 years, but the company promotes suck-ups, regardless of talent and/or motivation. Preferential treatment is given to some.
What's pushed me to my breaking point is seeing many senior employees leave or refocus on school to leave. It's a sad state of affairs.
Side note: The industry this company is involved in, isn't exactly revered around the world. Coincidence? lol
Originally Posted By: javacontour
However, what changes the outcome in MOST (not all) cases is attitude.
I'd like to think in 21st Century America, it's more about attitude than it is race.
Again, not saying there are not bigoted knuckleheads out there. What I'm saying is they are much less a factor these days.
Agreed! I started my work career as a 19 year old long-haired college dropout hippy working as a bottle washer in a laboratory at the lowest pay in the company. After 21 years and 12 promotions later I was a vice president and the third highest paid employee in the company, and 16 years later retired set for life at age 56. My success had nothing to do with my color, education, or contacts - it had everything to do with my attitude. I worked as if I owned the company and gave a darn about the company's success rather than my own. Positive attitude, friendly cooperation, and taking initiative is noticed my managers, and when they see potential they mentor and guide you. As an executive I was always on the look out for those rare employees who had the right stuff and who I could develop.
Of course performance is also critical, but performance skills can be taught, and honed with experience. Attitude, however, is difficult to instill. If you just put in your time and don't care about the company, the company will not care about you. If you have a positive attitude and work like a shareholder, doors will open. I never saw such an employee held back because of race - I didn't care if you were purple with yellow polka-dots if you you worked hard and cared, and that was also the attitude of other managers, right up to the top.
Tom NJ/VA
This is a situation most hope for. The company I am about to leave, doesn't share the "hard work, happy worker, gets promoted" ideal. After 10 years, I've yet to gain a promotion. A few pay raises, but no promotion. The irony is I've trained several people who went on to move up. Without going into details, and obviously no one knows the details of my last 10 years, but the company promotes suck-ups, regardless of talent and/or motivation. Preferential treatment is given to some.
What's pushed me to my breaking point is seeing many senior employees leave or refocus on school to leave. It's a sad state of affairs.
Side note: The industry this company is involved in, isn't exactly revered around the world. Coincidence? lol
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Originally Posted By: BJD78
The American dream for many is perhaps a house unless they live in some of these areas where houses are out of reach even for 100K plus techies. Silicon valley and LA come to mind. Vacations are a pipe dream for many, maybe a small savings , jobs with retirement are getting hard to come by, I told my kids if they wanted college that uncle Sam would be their best bet. My parents never owed me college and I do not owe them college. Here in midwest a couple making 50- 75 K can probably become home owners of a modest home in the 80 to 120K range, granted a house here will need some work and some fixing up. Many of the families I know who live in these big 250 to 400k homes are struggling with the payments because their eyes got too big for their wallets, hence they are "house poor" they have the nice house and cars but are in a home where half the rooms have no furniture since they cannot afford it. Plus these big home cost a lot to heat and cool square footage is square footage. Midle class here in this area is probably 50 t0 70k per year. In LA an income of 50 k would leave one homeless. depends where one is living. IMO if a person can at least have a house or at least reasonable rent, a reliable vehicle, a job with a pension and if one is luck at least 5K in a savings account that is doing good... vacations and paying for a kids collge is nice but few will be able to do that.
I roughed it out to save $2K, lived frugally. Then last year, I not only depleted that, but maxed out the cred cards I had attained. Perhaps divulging TMI, but I feeel like I am not the only one who has had to do that in pursuit of the "American Dream"
I'm working on starting over, and in this case, I am happy to be in America where yes, things are bad, but most things can be improved if you work at it. Nothing worth it was ever easy, so to speak.
The American dream for many is perhaps a house unless they live in some of these areas where houses are out of reach even for 100K plus techies. Silicon valley and LA come to mind. Vacations are a pipe dream for many, maybe a small savings , jobs with retirement are getting hard to come by, I told my kids if they wanted college that uncle Sam would be their best bet. My parents never owed me college and I do not owe them college. Here in midwest a couple making 50- 75 K can probably become home owners of a modest home in the 80 to 120K range, granted a house here will need some work and some fixing up. Many of the families I know who live in these big 250 to 400k homes are struggling with the payments because their eyes got too big for their wallets, hence they are "house poor" they have the nice house and cars but are in a home where half the rooms have no furniture since they cannot afford it. Plus these big home cost a lot to heat and cool square footage is square footage. Midle class here in this area is probably 50 t0 70k per year. In LA an income of 50 k would leave one homeless. depends where one is living. IMO if a person can at least have a house or at least reasonable rent, a reliable vehicle, a job with a pension and if one is luck at least 5K in a savings account that is doing good... vacations and paying for a kids collge is nice but few will be able to do that.
I roughed it out to save $2K, lived frugally. Then last year, I not only depleted that, but maxed out the cred cards I had attained. Perhaps divulging TMI, but I feeel like I am not the only one who has had to do that in pursuit of the "American Dream"
I'm working on starting over, and in this case, I am happy to be in America where yes, things are bad, but most things can be improved if you work at it. Nothing worth it was ever easy, so to speak.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/10/25/is-100000-middle-class-in-america/
Funny this just came up in my news feed
Funny this just came up in my news feed
I regularly work OT and it definitely boosts my income.
Luckily I have a boss then never questions why I request it. I manage my own weekly time card and submit it.
Luckily I have a boss then never questions why I request it. I manage my own weekly time card and submit it.
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