Is M1 HM 10w-30 a monograde in disguise?

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
And not only what everyone is already saying about the MSDS, if an entity can mislead their competitors and still meet the safety requirements all the better. I know I've yapped about this before but as someone who used to write those for a living, I can tell you that NO company would ever, ever divulge trade secrets in an MSDS.

Though I would presume that stating you have 20-50% PAO in your blend isn't divulging much of anything really.

 

[4WD]

Strange enough it is Esterex normally used in that low range percentage …
Think it shakes out H-0 / F-1 / R-0

 

[Oro_O]

Originally Posted By: MolaKule
No, it's a Multi-Grade in disguise.

This seems the most relevant, and slightly elegant, comment to the OP's initial topic. The MSDS gamesmanship was interesting to learn about; apparently those are far more unreliable than generally thought.

As to the OP's question, I interpret as, "What are they blending to make such a stout oil vs. other 10w-30s?" I would think it's just a market positioning choice -others could replicate it if they wanted, but choose to do so for other reasons such as economy of scale with base stocks on hand, etc. Just a guess. Confusing the issue is that the only other oil I am aware of with similar characteristics is Redline.

I like this oil and after years of comparing it with other in our personal vehicles, and like the OP I would love to know more about how it differs from it's peers.

Quote:
Given the very moderate price of M1 HM I'd doubt that the basestock blend used would support a 10W-30 grade qualification without VIIs, but I could be wrong.
Wouldn't mind were that so.


This is the amateur guess I came up with, too.

 

[SilverFusion2010]

Originally Posted By: Or
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
No, it's a Multi-Grade in disguise.

This seems the most relevant, and slightly elegant, comment to the OP's initial topic. The MSDS gamesmanship was interesting to learn about; apparently those are far more unreliable than generally thought.

As to the OP's question, I interpret as, "What are they blending to make such a stout oil vs. other 10w-30s?" I would think it's just a market positioning choice -others could replicate it if they wanted, but choose to do so for other reasons such as economy of scale with base stocks on hand, etc. Just a guess. Confusing the issue is that the only other oil I am aware of with similar characteristics is Redline.

I like this oil and after years of comparing it with other in our personal vehicles, and like the OP I would love to know more about how it differs from it's peers.

Quote:
Given the very moderate price of M1 HM I'd doubt that the basestock blend used would support a 10W-30 grade qualification without VIIs, but I could be wrong.
Wouldn't mind were that so.


This is the amateur guess I came up with, too.


I was hoping son of joe or one of the other experienced members would chime in.

 

[MolaKule]

Originally Posted By: SilverFusion2010
I know there are SAE 30 oils that meet 10w pumpability requirements. Is M1 one of these? The M1 HM is HTHS 3.5


M1 HM is a multi-grade oil because it is formulated to be a multigrade.

Nothing monograde about it.

 

[BrocLuno]

Yeah, and I'm pretty sure most SAE 30's would end up being 20W-30, or 25W-30 in testing ...

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Or
This seems the most relevant, and slightly elegant, comment to the OP's initial topic. The MSDS gamesmanship was interesting to learn about; apparently those are far more unreliable than generally thought.

Unreliable is probably the best word. I would be hesitant to say any oil company is lying, but the purpose of an MSDS is certainly not to be a recipe, and a little inaccuracy is functionally harmless. If oil company A wants to print a virtual recipe on the MSDS while being within legal parameters, they're free do do so. If company B wants to gloss over PAO content or that an oil is primarily Group III or II on an MSDS, no one is going to care, unless, perhaps, it's absolutely obviously fraudulent or dangerously wrong. Castrol GTX and Castrol 0w-40 A3/B4 when spilled are cleaned up the same way, and when burning are put out the same way, and are handled and shipped the same way. That's the important part.

You put "100% Group I base stocks" or similar wording on an MSDS for Castrol 0w-40 A3/B4, BITOGers or the competition might raise a stink, but if it's close enough to be plausible, that's sufficient. No enforcement personnel would ever go after a motor oil for misrepresenting base stocks on an MSDS. The lab testing and evidentiary chain required would be daunting, and that's before finding the expert witnesses that would be required to bring a prosecutor up to speed, much less obtain a conviction.