Is Amsoil enough to prevent varnish?

[televascular]

Let's say hypothetically that I'm going to use SSO 0W-30 at factory recommended intervals. Will my innards still be accumulating varnish over time, or are the SSO's detergents enough to prevent that?

I understand this depends on many variables, but just imagine that I'm talking about a clean engine used in "normal" service where the oil is changed before it is exhausted. Basically, I am trying to determine if LC20 is going to be beneficial at all... I enjoy spending money on my car, but not if it's unproductive.

What if UOAs show that I can extend my intervals to 10k+ miles? Even if TBN is reasonable and wear metals seem ok, does that mean the detergents are still active and working? I've also read that Amsoil tends to build a brownish additive layer on metal surfaces for boundary lubrication... how would I differentiate between this and varnish during a visual inspection?

Full of questions. Any input is appreciated.

 

[buster]

If you run factory recommended intervals, you should definitely be fine with any oil, especially SSO. Depending on your oil analysis results, you could possibly go much further with SSO and get little/no varnish. Amsoil has a lot of AO's and good PAO/Ester base oils so oxidation will be kept to a minimum leaving behind little to no sludge/varnish/deposits. I'm happy with this oil so far.

 

[Gary Allan]

That's a good question. You've kinda got a "tint specification" that isn't normally a feature. Deposit control is about as good as it can get, but film formations are, as you sorta inferred, part of that too. This is not a normal performance standard.

 

[FZ1]

Synthetics generally keep the engine cleaner.

 

[harry j]

Originally Posted By: televascular
Let's say hypothetically that I'm going to use SSO 0W-30 at factory recommended intervals. Will my innards still be accumulating varnish over time, or are the SSO's detergents enough to prevent that?

I understand this depends on many variables, but just imagine that I'm talking about a clean engine used in "normal" service where the oil is changed before it is exhausted. Basically, I am trying to determine if LC20 is going to be beneficial at all... I enjoy spending money on my car, but not if it's unproductive.

What if UOAs show that I can extend my intervals to 10k+ miles? Even if TBN is reasonable and wear metals seem ok, does that mean the detergents are still active and working? I've also read that Amsoil tends to build a brownish additive layer on metal surfaces for boundary lubrication... how would I differentiate between this and varnish during a visual inspection?

Full of questions. Any input is appreciated.



All I can say is to try the SSO. It does keep my '93 Civic innards clean as a whistle. Then again, I have been changing it every 3K miles or so. Make absolutely sure that you use an EAO filter and not the garbage Honda tries to foist on us. An orange filter by any other color (in this case blue), I is still a lowly piece of, can I say it, no?, OK, how about trash? Good, I'll go with trash then. Please keep us all up to date on your SSO/EAO experiences.

 

[ThirdeYe]

Harry - You change your SSO at 3k miles?!

Even I was brave enough to change my Havoline conventional at 4,300 miles and ASL at 4,500 miles.

I'm working my way up

I should also note that my engine's very clean still. No varnish/sludge, etc. And this was with 5k dealership oil changes by the previous owner dating back to 1994.

 

[FZ1]

Come on! Be a man and go 5k!

 

[buster]

Quote:
Even
though the temperature in the sump may not be
excessive, the oil which coats the cylinder walls
sees oxygen under high temperatures and
pressures, an environment which promotes oxygen
attack. The reaction products are initially organic
acids, which are corrosive to metals. These acids will combine to form varnish deposits which will
coat metal, reducing the ability to transfer heat,
and will build up in the ring area causing ring sticking.
Excessive oxidation results in oil thickening. A
significant advantage of a synthetic such.....The high temperature stability insures
that there is less contribution to sludge from
oxidized oil, but the unburned fuel components still
can contribute to sludge and varnish formation.
Well-tuned engines which regularly attain the
operating temperature regulated by the cooling
system have no problems with partially-burned
fuel, but engines driven only a few miles at a time
can build up sludge rapidly.....uses large
amounts of dispersant chemistry which encircle the
combustion particles and prevent them from
coagulating with others and settle out in the lubrication
system.

 

[dargo]

Varnish is cosmetic here, I would not care. But it should help a little.

 

[televascular]

Actually, I'm currently filled up on SSO for the first time and nearing 5,000 miles. I'm quite used to changing the oil at this number, even though my oil life monitor displays 30%. I have always been tentative about extending OCIs even when capable because 10,000mi intervals don't look good to prospective used car buyers. I'll have to print out my UOAs, I suppose.

But I'm gonna keep this fill until the OLM-recommended 15%, which will be between 6-7k. I will be using Terry's services, so in a couple months I'll add some data to the pool.

 

[JohnBrowning]

If you are running SSO I would wait until that OLM say's "ZERO" at the minimum then test. More then likely you can go double that interval. I have never showed my records to a buy they look under the cap and then start it up and drive it.

 

[JohnBrowning]

I would never call varnish just "cosmetic" it will choke a seal and dry it out just as badly as sludge will. It can creat hot spots. It can gum the rings up and the bypass valve. I would say that varnish is mostly a cosmetic issue but it can cause some problems of it own if it goes unchecked. Now with that said 10,000 miles or 12 months with a quality synthetic are easily down in a large number of vechiles with little to no problems. Notice I said a lot. Their are some applications that do not like long oil change intervals but millageis seldom an issue with even group III synthetics usualy the time it takes to accumulate the miles is a biger factor. Their are plenty of people on this site that do 10,000 mile oil change intervals with no varnish issues at all.

 

[toocrazy2yoo]

I do four and five thousand on dino and 6 and 7K on syn and no varnish. Budget stuff, too. Car only has 60K on it, but no varnish.

 

[ARB1977]

For the amount of money that was wasted doing 5K intervals with Redline and Amsoil while under warrenty...it kept my inards spot free. If i had to do it all over again i would go with GTX or any good dino oil and maintence doses of Auto Rx.

 

[yota4me]

A 3-4 oz maintenance dose of Auto-RX + Amsoil should = NO worry about varnish. LC20 + Amsoil = reduced Amsoil life in my experimentation. Auto-RX does seem to preserve the TBN of Amsoil.

 

[Pablo]

There is a world of difference between ultrathin (maybe) colored boundary layers and varnish. Just so some folks get a better mind picture. In some engines this thin layer can appear light yellowish, to amber. Varnish is a thicker material, and consists mainly of broken down oil components. Varnish will eventually clean up with AutoRx, for example.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Pablo
There is a world of difference between ultrathin (maybe) colored boundary layers and varnish. Just so some folks get a better mind picture. In some engines this thin layer can appear light yellowish, to amber. Varnish is a thicker material, and consists mainly of broken down oil components. Varnish will eventually clean up with AutoRx, for example.


Borrowing another member's picture (first one), this is what varnish looks like:

And this is a motor with Amsoil oil and filters on it:

Note the "tinting" on parts of the metal that Pablo talks about. This stuff wipes off with paper towel or a rag easily.

 

[Gary Allan]

Originally Posted By: Pablo
There is a world of difference between ultrathin (maybe) colored boundary layers and varnish. Just so some folks get a better mind picture. In some engines this thin layer can appear light yellowish, to amber. Varnish is a thicker material, and consists mainly of broken down oil components. Varnish will eventually clean up with AutoRx, for example.


Yes, a "bronzing" can occur. This is opposed to a "glaze".

It's hard to tell how porous a given surface is, and how it will react, color-wise, to any oil. Hence you can't really give a "tint standard"

 

[televascular]

Originally Posted By: yota4me
A 3-4 oz maintenance dose of Auto-RX + Amsoil should = NO worry about varnish. LC20 + Amsoil = reduced Amsoil life in my experimentation. Auto-RX does seem to preserve the TBN of Amsoil.

Do you have UOAs posted that reflect this? LC20 claims to level the TBN and add antioxidants; I was under the impression that it would boost the life of any oil... why would Amsoil react negatively? Lube Control is Terry-endorsed, so I'm kinda surprised that it would reduce the life of an Amsoil OCI.

I did the calculations. If I were to use both products as recommended in my 5-quart sump, LC20 would cost me $44.77 for 12 OCIs, and Auto-RX would cost $60.30 for 12 OCIs. These figures include shipping costs and all available discounts.

 

[Jeffdc5]

honestly you dont need amsoil sso to keep a honda engine clean and varnish free especially a k20. My rsx was serviced for 30k at acura on dino 5w-30, when i purchased the car i inspected the motor the valve cover was removed and the motor looked brand new no visable wear no sludge or varnish. since then the car has receieved pennzoil platinum, Q-horsepower, and GC whichever one is on sale.The car gets revved to 8800 rpms at least 3 times a week, is driven to and from work and school in city traffic motor is still clean motor is still going strong after 50k. Amsoil is overkill at 5k