interesting information about hydrous ethanol

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I've done the math, and taken the risk. I must admit hydrous ethanol in my Jeep does provide more lower torque than anhydrous alcohol. I feel that information is best utilized when shared. http://fieldtopump.wordpress.com/2009/04...oline-blending/

"Hydrous (or wet) ethanol is the mosty.ty concentrated grade of ethanol that can be produced by simple distillation, without the further dehydration step necessary to produce anhydrous (or dry) ethanol. Hydrous ethanol (also sometimes known as azeotropic ethanol) typically ranges from 186 proof (93% ethanol, 7% water) to 192 proof (96% ethanol, 4% water).

Initial tests conducted in Europe have confirmed that hydrous ethanol can be blended effectively with gasoline without phase separation or other problems. An unmodified Volkswagen Golf 5 FSI was operated successfully on HE15 (15% hydrous ethanol blended with gasoline), meeting European exhaust emission standards in testing conducted by the Netherlands research organization TNO Automotive and by SGS Drive Technology Center of Austria. In addition to confirming the effectiveness of hydrous ethanol for gasoline blending in actual vehicle trials, these initial tests have shown measurable increases in volumetric fuel economy, indicating higher thermodynamic efficiencies resulting from hydrous ethanol. This recently discovered phenomena for mid-level ethanol blends appears to be due to the benefits of oxygenation and heat of vaporization in conjunction with capitalizing on the change in chemical and physical properties which occur as a result of combining water, ethanol, and gasoline. When appropriately combined in mid-level ethanol blends, the chemical reactions of these compounds optimize the efficiency at which internal combustion engines operate. For hydrous ethanol blends, this is accomplished primarily through the total heat of vaporization resulting from combining ethanol and water. Essentially, the lower energy content of hydrous ethanol is counteracted by increasing engine performance due to higher heat of vaporization of ethanol and water in comparison with gasoline and anhydrous blends.

Hydrous ethanol blends (oxygenated hydrocarbons) lower engine operating temperatures due to cooling of intake fuel mixture with 3-6% more water and increasing heat of vaporization when compared to anhydrous ethanol. The result is more efficient combustion, cooler running engines, lower exhaust temperatures, and increased longevity of engine life. The water contained in hydrous ethanol blends also reduces NOx emissions. In addition to the effects of higher water content in hydrous ethanol, ethanol increases compression ratios and decreases engine knocking (detonation). Essentially, both water and ethanol increase the octane level of the fuel mixture.The octane number is a measure of the resistance of a fuel to auto-ignition. It is also defined as a measure of anti-knock performance of a gasoline or gasoline component such as hydrous ethanol. Higher octane levels contribute to enhancing the thermodynamic efficiency of combustion engines, which subsequently increases fuel efficiency. The increase in total engine efficiency results in optimizing fuel efficiency for both ethanol and gasoline.

In addition to the strong hydrogen bonds contained in water molecules, the polarity of the OH groups contained in ethanol molecules can form hydrogen bridges causing relatively strong attractive forces between molecules in liquid phases. Upon vaporization of hydrous ethanol as a fuel, the distance between the water and ethanol molecules increase such that molecular interactions including physical properties are disrupted. This process accumulates a certain amount of latent (stored) energy. During combustion of these vapors, this explains why the heat of vaporization of hydrous ethanol blends is so much higher than that of regular gasoline components and non-alcohol oxygenates like methyl tertiary butyl ether (MTBE) which do not contain OH groups (non-alcohols). High heat of vaporization values are typical for water and alcohols including hydrous ethanol and hydrous ethanol blends (oxygenated hydrocarbons).

According to Baylor University, “as far as safety and performance is concerned, hydrous ethanol is a slightly better fuel [than anhydrous ethanol] in every respect (except specific fuel consumption since water does not provide any caloric content). Small quantities of water absorbed in the fuel result in a slight increase in power caused by the higher latent heat of vaporization of the fuel.”

Previous assumptions held that ethanol’s lower energy content directly correlates with lower fuel economy for automobiles. Those assumptions were found to be incorrect. Instead, the new research strongly suggests that there is an “optimal blend level” of ethanol and gasoline – most likely E20 or E30 – at which cars will get better mileage than predicted based strictly on the fuel’s per-gallon Btu content. The 2007 flex-fuel Chevrolet Impala utilized in midlevel blends testing revealed a 15% increase in fuel efficiency using the Highway Fuel Economy Test (HWFET) for E20 in comparison with unleaded regular gasoline. For the same vehicle, the highway fuel economy was greater than calculated for all tested blends, with an especially high peak at E20. The new study, co-sponsored by the U.S. Department of Energy (“DOE”) and the American Coalition for Ethanol (“ACE”), also found that mid-range ethanol blends reduce harmful tailpipe emissions.

Rapid expansion of the ethanol industry is creating global supply/demand issues. In some geographical areas, like the U.S. for example, supply is outgrowing demand. This is having a negative effect on the price of ethanol for producers and sustainability of the ethanol industry. Due to emissions and durability testing requirements, ethanol producers are having difficulty with assessing the economic and environmental impacts of midlevel anhydrous ethanol blends on current auto engines in order to increase blending rates and the RFS. In contrast to higher percentage anhydrous ethanol blends, HE15 and higher blends can be utilized in legacy vehicles (existing auto engines) as well as FFVs.Once parallel testing has been conducted for midlevel and E85/HE85 anhydrous and hydrous ethanol blends, further fuel efficiency and emissions testing may not be necessary."

"A 3-6% increase in ethanol production accompanied by a decrease in energy costs, plus an increase in fuel efficiency, will help to increase ethanol sales and profit margins for ethanol producers. Existing gasoline pipelines will be able to utilize midlevel hydrous ethanol blends as a much more compatible blendstock. This will dramatically reduce transportation costs by allowing petro-refineries and blenders to leverage existing infrastructures for distribution of hydrous ethanol. New turbocharged engines designed for ethanol only, FFV, and ethanol hybrid vehicle technologies allow for utilizing hydrous ethanol in E85 and E100 fuels in conjunction with electric power to provide unprecedented power, fuel efficiency and emissions reductions."
 
Nope, adding water to E10 will dump the Ethanol out in short order.

When I was mucking around, I mixed methylated spirits (hydrous ethanol, it's the allotrope the you get with distillation before dehydration), quite readily...a little acetone or MEK helped it stay together...but that allotrope (?) is 3% water in ethanol, or 0.3% if you add it to E10.

Adding water to alcohol fuels for improved apparent octane has been done forever.

It's been done for petrol too, with 10% mixes with Gasoline in the 70s using some pretty flash surfactants,coal dust in Gas Turbine trains, orimulsion of bitumen in water in power stations.
 
Nice, so thanks for the information. Have you tried 4-6% ba?sed? on alcohol by volume maybe we need a tune with some more timing
 
Last edited:
The problem is with the miscibility of the fuels.

dry ethanol and gas will mix. Azeotrope (my bad) will mix, but needs help in staying together.

when you distill alcohol, the resultant ethanol will have a couple of percent water by volume as a permanent mix....to do it with E10, you need to add .3% tops, including that whichis already in the mix.

the study is that the ethanol doesn't have to be perfectly dry, not adding water to the fuel.
 
Yes your right, but the water will be absorbed to a % the octane boost is noticeable and helps with performance
 
I've done the math, and taken the risk. I must admit hydrous ethanol in my Jeep does provide more lower torque than anhydrous alcohol. I feel that information is best utilized when shared. http://fieldtopump.wordpress.com/2009/04...oline-blending/

"Hydrous (or wet) ethanol is the mosty.ty concentrated grade of ethanol that can be produced by simple distillation, without the further dehydration step necessary to produce anhydrous (or dry) ethanol. Hydrous ethanol (also sometimes known as azeotropic ethanol) typically ranges from 186 proof (93% ethanol, 7% water) to 192 proof (96% ethanol, 4% water).

Initial tests conducted in Europe have confirmed that hydrous ethanol can be blended effectively with gasoline without phase separation or other problems. An unmodified Volkswagen Golf 5 FSI was operated successfully on HE15 (15% hydrous ethanol blended with gasoline), meeting European exhaust emission standards in testing conducted by the Netherlands research organization TNO Automotive and by SGS Drive Technology Center of Austria. In addition to confirming the effectiveness of hydrous ethanol for gasoline blending in actual vehicle trials, these initial tests have shown measurable increases in volumetric fuel economy, indicating higher thermodynamic efficiencies resulting from hydrous ethanol. This recently discovered phenomena for mid-level ethanol blends appears to be due to the benefits of oxygenation and heat of vaporization in conjunction with capitalizing on the change in chemical and physical properties which occur as a result of combining water, ethanol, and gasoline. When appropriately combined in mid-level ethanol blends, the chemical reactions of these compounds optimize the efficiency at which internal combustion engines operate. For hydrous ethanol blends, this is accomplished primarily through the total heat of vaporization resulting from combining ethanol and water. Essentially, the lower energy content of hydrous ethanol is counteracted by increasing engine performance due to higher heat of vaporization of ethanol and water in comparison with gasoline and anhydrous blends.

Hydrous ethanol blends (oxygenated hydrocarbons) lower engine operating temperatures due to cooling of intake fuel mixture with 3-6% more water and increasing heat of vaporization when compared to anhydrous ethanol. The result is more efficient combustion, cooler running engines, lower exhaust temperatures, and increased longevity of engine life. The water contained in hydrous ethanol blends also reduces NOx emissions. In addition to the effects of higher water content in hydrous ethanol, ethanol increases compression ratios and decreases engine knocking (detonation). Essentially, both water and ethanol increase the octane level of the fuel mixture.The octane number is a measure of the resistance of a fuel to auto-ignition. It is also defined as a measure of anti-knock performance of a gasoline or gasoline component such as hydrous ethanol. Higher octane levels contribute to enhancing the thermodynamic efficiency of combustion engines, which subsequently increases fuel efficiency. The increase in total engine efficiency results in optimizing fuel efficiency for both ethanol and gasoline.

In addition to the strong hydrogen bonds contained in water molecules, the polarity of the OH groups contained in ethanol molecules can form hydrogen bridges causing relatively strong attractive forces between molecules in liquid phases. Upon vaporization of hydrous ethanol as a fuel, the distance between the water and ethanol molecules increase such that molecular interactions including physical properties are disrupted. This process accumulates a certain amount of latent (stored) energy. During combustion of these vapors, this explains why the heat of vaporization of hydrous ethanol blends is so much higher than that of regular gasoline components and non-alcohol oxygenates like methyl tertiary butyl ether (MTBE) which do not contain OH groups (non-alcohols). High heat of vaporization values are typical for water and alcohols including hydrous ethanol and hydrous ethanol blends (oxygenated hydrocarbons).

According to Baylor University, “as far as safety and performance is concerned, hydrous ethanol is a slightly better fuel [than anhydrous ethanol] in every respect (except specific fuel consumption since water does not provide any caloric content). Small quantities of water absorbed in the fuel result in a slight increase in power caused by the higher latent heat of vaporization of the fuel.”

Previous assumptions held that ethanol’s lower energy content directly correlates with lower fuel economy for automobiles. Those assumptions were found to be incorrect. Instead, the new research strongly suggests that there is an “optimal blend level” of ethanol and gasoline – most likely E20 or E30 – at which cars will get better mileage than predicted based strictly on the fuel’s per-gallon Btu content. The 2007 flex-fuel Chevrolet Impala utilized in midlevel blends testing revealed a 15% increase in fuel efficiency using the Highway Fuel Economy Test (HWFET) for E20 in comparison with unleaded regular gasoline. For the same vehicle, the highway fuel economy was greater than calculated for all tested blends, with an especially high peak at E20. The new study, co-sponsored by the U.S. Department of Energy (“DOE”) and the American Coalition for Ethanol (“ACE”), also found that mid-range ethanol blends reduce harmful tailpipe emissions.

Rapid expansion of the ethanol industry is creating global supply/demand issues. In some geographical areas, like the U.S. for example, supply is outgrowing demand. This is having a negative effect on the price of ethanol for producers and sustainability of the ethanol industry. Due to emissions and durability testing requirements, ethanol producers are having difficulty with assessing the economic and environmental impacts of midlevel anhydrous ethanol blends on current auto engines in order to increase blending rates and the RFS. In contrast to higher percentage anhydrous ethanol blends, HE15 and higher blends can be utilized in legacy vehicles (existing auto engines) as well as FFVs.Once parallel testing has been conducted for midlevel and E85/HE85 anhydrous and hydrous ethanol blends, further fuel efficiency and emissions testing may not be necessary."

"A 3-6% increase in ethanol production accompanied by a decrease in energy costs, plus an increase in fuel efficiency, will help to increase ethanol sales and profit margins for ethanol producers. Existing gasoline pipelines will be able to utilize midlevel hydrous ethanol blends as a much more compatible blendstock. This will dramatically reduce transportation costs by allowing petro-refineries and blenders to leverage existing infrastructures for distribution of hydrous ethanol. New turbocharged engines designed for ethanol only, FFV, and ethanol hybrid vehicle technologies allow for utilizing hydrous ethanol in E85 and E100 fuels in conjunction with electric power to provide unprecedented power, fuel efficiency and emissions reductions."
 
Pretty much same thing but the 4% distilled water by alcohol volume does make a difference
 
Where did you cut and paste all this from?

Your point is lost in all the extraneous words. Sure, you can run an engine on ethanol. Ethanol has a lower BTU content per unit volume than gasoline or diesel, but you can increase the compression ratio and gain some efficiency back.

Got it, those points are well known. What I can't tell from your post is what you are proposing...did you convert your jeep to run on ethanol? Are you saying we should all do that?

Adding a ton of quoted words doesn't make your point more clear or more compelling...I am still left wondering: What's the point?
 
I remember reading way back that addition of small amounts of water into combustion increases efficiency and decreases octane requirements. We all know that water cleans combustion chambers too.

Now, the mandatory addition of alcohol to gasoline allows one to mix water easily (in small quantities of course).

So, who will be the first BITOGer to add water to gas tank?

And if water is a good additive indeed, we need to move this thread to the fuel additive section!
 
Now they can sell us gasoline diluted with water! I really have to wonder who wrote this article
smile.gif


On a more serious note, I've added water to E10 pump gas (which actually contains less than 10% ethanol) to determine the alcohol content. Other than with very small quantities of water, the alcohol always separates out.

I'm fairly certain the effect is similar to "water injection". It allows for higher compression or more advanced timing.
 
Someone needs to keep up with the times. I just read an article that itself is 3 weeks old about the ethanol industry in the US. It is true that production is outpacing demand, but that is why the US is a net exporter of ethanol. But the interesting fact is that the US will most likely have to import and export ethanol because the EPA will demand by 2015 (I think) that around half of the ethanol consumed in the US will have to come from another source other than corn. Brazil decreased the taxes on petrol but not ethanol to control inflation, which of course reduced sugar production because of less acres. Brazilian farmers are starting to produce more sugarcane again to feed the US ethanol industry to meet the 50% mandate of non-corn produced ethanol.
 
Sounds like you got the information after you thought about it. I pasted that for the people that don't want to waste the time, or resources going though the link. Also I have tried it based on alcohol by volume.
 
o.o I tried the additive gasoline section and they have a different bias towards things over there.
 
Originally Posted By: Diesel1
Any thoughts?


First thought was dejavu, and why two threads on the same thing...word for word ?
 
Its like sending your resume to more than one person. I was merely trying to expand the market group. I love all this rain makes distilled water cost effective
 
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