INEOS Grenadier, or how Land Rover screwed up!

[JavierH19]

They offer the 5th gen LT1 and LT4. Both are available with the 6L90, 8L90, 10L90, and a 6-speed manual TR6060.

However, I am surprised that they don't offer the LS3 with the 8L90.



I'm surprised BMW would actually be the cheaper option! I thought these GM turnkey kits already sold to the public would end up costing less, especially at the quantities that Ineos would buy them in

Ineos had to have done the math on what they wanted and at what price they could get it from whoever. It could've been based on a ford ecoboost or 6 cyl powerstroke and 10r80 if it made more sense to them and it would've worked too, that would've been a capable off roader since ford already has the bronco. Bmw got the contract though. I wonder how a small duramax grenadier would've been. But the diesel bmw engine is already euro compliant whereas the 3.0 Duramax might not be since i don't believe it's sold in any vehicle in Europe. I think the 4 cyl Duramax is euro compliant though.

 

[edyvw]

I was checking out chevy's powertrain packages and their most modern offering is the older but still awesome ls3 6.2 with the older 6l80. I don't see an offering for the more efficient modern l84 5.3 and 10l80 which is more comparable to the b58 and zf8 power and emissions wise. Though i don't think gm was willing to do extra work in making it all work together at the same price as bmw. Bmw is not only suppling the powertrain but piecing everything together for them. You can also see the somewhat out of place bmw shifter in the center.

Grenadier also uses B57 diesel engine which will be majority of sale elsewhere.

 

[edyvw]

The idea was that it was supposed to be a tough built and easy to look after vehicle that could be fixed like an old Defender could. Then they threw in one of the most complex engine and gearbox setups out there and ruined it's main selling point.

Not sure what are you talking about? What exactly is complex? Please do let us know. ZF8 is most reliable transmission available today. Far better than Aisin 8 or 10 speed or anything GM/Ford.

 

[JavierH19]

Grenadier also uses B57 diesel engine which will be majority of sale elsewhere.

True, it's made in france after all so it will be domestic in Europe, just made a comment about the diesel part.

 

[edyvw]

True, it's made in france after all so it will be domestic in Europe, just made a comment about the diesel part.

And B57/58 share A LOT of parts, you don’t have to change under the hood bunch of different things to accommodate GM engine. Not sure people would flock to it with GM logo under.

 

[proveitwithdata]

I give ineos props for dealing with customers like this. His whole video is him disliking pricing due to standard features in the vehicle.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

Land Rovers Defenders are not loosing the "big game" in the states. If you look at the sales numbers and pricing they are selling quite handsomely at sticker/adm new or used. BBA products in the states are incentive heavy and/inflated residuals. That being said there is no direct competition to the defender from BBA at its price and they dont need to be since the brand USP is totally different. The BMW powertrain should be fine, I assume they modified the powertrain to live off the beaten path. I dont expect this to be working in Nambia as advertised in their marketing material and the local equivalent of Autozone has a HPFP ready to go.

The 4R starts at 40k, and the majority of volume sold are not TRD off road. I agree most folks who own a BOF product with a USP of offroad worthiness never step foot off road. The LC200 sales# were dismal at best, and they acknowledged that most of the time the enthusiast/millenial who wanted one were priced out. The LC250 is what came of that realization. Folks can now have a spartan interior, hybrid overland energy system that just so happens to power the vehicle with better power numbers and better fuel economy all at the start price of loaded 4R AND still carry the legendary LAND CRUISER nameplate.

Ineos is a slick vehicle, but at 70k if you want a more modern vehicle to live with, R1T is 10K more, you want a more traditional vehicle GX550 Overland, a way more simple and budget friendly vehicle LC250. And of course if you like the defender nordstorm soccer mom troupe then LR will gladly be of service.

Please provide the location of just ONE charging station out in the bush (Moab, Bonneville, etc) where some one who bought the Ineos can rub elbows with a Rivian owner while they’re charging.

Because it would only be to rub the Rivian owner’s nose in it and say, “You haven’t even seen the GOOD stuff out here, since you’re tethered to this electrical nipple.”

 

[edyvw]

Please provide the location of just ONE charging station out in the bush (Moab, Bonneville, etc) where some one who bought the Ineos can rub elbows with a Rivian owner while they’re charging.

Because it would only be to rub the Rivian owner’s nose in it and say, “You haven’t even seen the GOOD stuff out here, since you’re tethered to this electrical nipple.”

It is not working that way. You go with Rivian up the hill. After that, downhill you really don’t need battery.

 

[02SE]

It is not working that way. You go with Rivian up the hill. After that, downhill you really don’t need battery.

After a long fight, and lots of disappointment, a neighbor had his Rivian lemon-lawed and bought back. He tried a Ford Lightning as a replacement. It failed during the test drive, and had to be towed.

He's had a plug-in Hybrid Rav4 for about a month now. So far so good.

 

[proveitwithdata]

Please provide the location of just ONE charging station out in the bush (Moab, Bonneville, etc) where some one who bought the Ineos can rub elbows with a Rivian owner while they’re charging.

Because it would only be to rub the Rivian owner’s nose in it and say, “You haven’t even seen the GOOD stuff out here, since you’re tethered to this electrical nipple.”

Would you like a Tesla Magic Dock Station or Rivian Waypoint Charger?

Tesla N Main street Moab
Rivian Waypoint Under Canvas Resorts if you are a guest.

 

[proveitwithdata]

After a long fight, and lots of disappointment, a neighbor had his Rivian lemon-lawed and bought back. He tried a Ford Lightning as a replacement. It failed during the test drive, and had to be towed.

He's had a plug-in Hybrid Rav4 for about a month now. So far so good.

food for thought?

 

[edyvw]

Would you like a Tesla Magic Dock Station or Rivian Waypoint Charger?

Tesla N Main street Moab
Rivian Waypoint Under Canvas Resorts if you are a guest.

So convenient

 

[proveitwithdata]

I dont get it either, but if rivian and tesla are plopping chargers everywhere in the great outdoors theres got to be an audience that does not mind regardless of our personal opinions.

 

[proveitwithdata]

Btw is it using the Tesla mantra of no driver ip? speedo is the center tablet screen?

 

[edyvw]

Btw is it using the Tesla mantra of no driver ip? speedo is the center tablet screen?

I think it is for visibility. IMO dumb, they should put normal gauges.
But, I think there will be a lot of revisions. It is first attempt, there will be bunch of feedback.

 

[JHZR2]

Glad someone made it, the new defender is a huge let down. It's as much a "defender" as the Maverick is compared to the old Maverick. Just a name. I don't see how anyone would cross shop a Rivian and this. Completely different crowd.

They’re becoming popular with soccer moms around here as the Volvo 90 series suv craze wanes. And they’re ugly as can be. Fake ladder on the side is it?

I would love a late 90s diesel g-wagen, but an fjz80 is probably more practical, and the newest Toyota I’d go given that styling just gets worse and worse after that…

 

[2strokeNorthstar]

They’re becoming popular with soccer moms around here as the Volvo 90 series suv craze wanes. And they’re ugly as can be. Fake ladder on the side is it?

I would love a late 90s diesel g-wagen, but an fjz80 is probably more practical, and the newest Toyota I’d go given that styling just gets worse and worse after that…

I see a few around my area, haven't really caught on. Pretty surprised Teslas haven't started to fade from the soccer mom fleets since they have looked the same forever and really aren't "fancy" anymore. The Defender definitely looks like a fake off roader. Giant wheels, low profile tires, odd plastic shaped bumpers that are supposed to simulate off road shaped bumpers. No idea what the body colored piece in the back window area is supposed to be.

Diesel G wagon or Triple locked Fzj80 in good condition would be the ultimate find.

 

[edyvw]

I see a few around my area, haven't really caught on. Pretty surprised Teslas haven't started to fade from the soccer mom fleets since they have looked the same forever and really aren't "fancy" anymore. The Defender definitely looks like a fake off roader. Giant wheels, low profile tires, odd plastic shaped bumpers that are supposed to simulate off road shaped bumpers. No idea what the body colored piece in the back window area is supposed to be.

Diesel G wagon or Triple locked Fzj80 in good condition would be the ultimate find.

It is astonishing how bad it looks. We in Colorado don’t lack people that “need” to prove status, and so far I have seen only one.

 

[97prizm]

So this vehicle is apparently a THING! I heard something about it, that there is an old Defender alike in the making, but I did not follow the story.
Well, the thing is here, and I can only say: WOW!

Home

INEOS identified a gap in the market for a stripped back, utilitarian, hard-working 4X4 engineered for modern day compliance and reliability. We’re building a serious off-roader from the ground up ready for all American conditions.

ineosgrenadier.com

It looks like an old Defender, it has an analog interior, it has old-style key. Detuned BMW B58 engine paired with ZF8. Even in this thing, BMW pushed the engine back, which means it will be balanced properly even on the road, although it is not its main purpose.
Low range, center locker, rear locker, and front locker. It is boxy, it looks excellent, it has an astonishing engine under the hood with the best and most reliable transmission available. The ONLY downside is, well, the price! The base model goes for $71,000. But, it is REALLY base. Another issue is that the BMW B57 diesel engine is not available in the US. But, I really, REALLY like this thing. I mean, it even has Recaro seats.

I've been following this since the beginning and wasn't sure if it would really see the light of day. Did it mention if a manual transmission option was available. Initially they said both would be. Unfortunately the high price is due to crash certifications, CARB, additional emissions compliance certification and the fact that it will be a low volume production.

 

[wings&wheels]

I've been following this since the beginning and wasn't sure if it would really see the light of day. Did it mention if a manual transmission option was available. Initially they said both would be. Unfortunately the high price is due to crash certifications, CARB, additional emissions compliance certification and the fact that it will be a low volume production.

I cannot see how these will succeed in the US market at that price given the low volume, small service network, etc., and by price, I am surprised it isn't higher given the cost of compliance, certification, other costs of market entry amortized over the low volume. Also, IIRC one of the reasons LR discontinued the old 90/110/Defender body design was the inability to retrofit airbags, curious as to how Ineos does it.