INEOS Grenadier, or how Land Rover screwed up!

[edyvw]

So this vehicle is apparently a THING! I heard something about it, that there is an old Defender alike in the making, but I did not follow the story.
Well, the thing is here, and I can only say: WOW!

Home

INEOS identified a gap in the market for a stripped back, utilitarian, hard-working 4X4 engineered for modern day compliance and reliability. We’re building a serious off-roader from the ground up ready for all American conditions.

ineosgrenadier.com

It looks like an old Defender, it has an analog interior, it has old-style key. Detuned BMW B58 engine paired with ZF8. Even in this thing, BMW pushed the engine back, which means it will be balanced properly even on the road, although it is not its main purpose.
Low range, center locker, rear locker, and front locker. It is boxy, it looks excellent, it has an astonishing engine under the hood with the best and most reliable transmission available. The ONLY downside is, well, the price! The base model goes for $71,000. But, it is REALLY base. Another issue is that the BMW B57 diesel engine is not available in the US. But, I really, REALLY like this thing. I mean, it even has Recaro seats.

 

[JavierH19]

It's pretty cool, there's a fellow on here that recently posted about his. Had no idea it existed let alone was sold in Texas.

 

[edyvw]

It's pretty cool, there's a fellow on here that recently posted about his. Had no idea it existed let alone was sold in Texas.

Yep, they are exporting to the US. The web site I posted is the US website. Here it is imported by a local Cadillac dealer:

https://www.rednoland.com/ineosgrenadier/

 

[proveitwithdata]

The new defender fits where the most money is for those who want a liveable offroader, and the only challenger in that sphere is the new Gx550, but even then BOF VS unibody. The defender exiting the fleet sales makes sense, since the tool of choice for those in need is usually a LC70.

The ineos is then for the person who wants to live in their heyday of the old defenders with a modern touch, say a person who'd walk into a retro mod shop. But even then there are some decent options with the Rivian R1T.

Good for Ineos though, plopping the b58/8 speed combo is a good choice.

 

[edyvw]

The new defender fits where the most money is for those who want a liveable offroader, and the only challenger in that sphere is the new Gx550, but even then BOF VS unibody. The defender exiting the fleet sales makes sense, since the tool of choice for those in need is usually a LC70.

The ineos is then for the person who wants to live in their heyday of the old defenders with a modern touch, say a person who'd walk into a retro mod shop. But even then there are some decent options with the Rivian R1T.

Good for Ineos though, plopping the b58/8 speed combo is a good choice.

I would say based on Ineos tests, this is a very livable vehicle. The new Defender comes with all things Land Rover, messy engineering etc. LC70 is definitely not aimed at competition for this company. They are making off-roaders for the Western world, targeting the 4Runner crowd, JEEP etc. I am not sure how will Rivian compete with this at all. I mean, this is still true off-roader. That Rivian I see every day. Some soccer mom brings a kid to daycare on her way to the gym.

 

[slacktide_bitog]

They should've used an LS engine. GM has a nice cruise-and-connect package they could've used

 

[proveitwithdata]

I would say based on Ineos tests, this is a very livable vehicle. The new Defender comes with all things Land Rover, messy engineering etc. LC70 is definitely not aimed at competition for this company. They are making off-roaders for the Western world, targeting the 4Runner crowd, JEEP etc. I am not sure how will Rivian compete with this at all. I mean, this is still true off-roader. That Rivian I see every day. Some soccer mom brings a kid to daycare on her way to the gym.

The Ineos is still a overbuilt BOF not worthy of the local Nordstorm parking lot. The Defender fits that bill perfectly. The LC70 came into the picture, because that was the originally mission statement of Ineos acquiring the old defender tooling. They wanted something that could support the mining industry, like the LC70s. Now a $70k vehicle is not going to be a mining rig, and I agree.

Targeting 4runner/Jeep crowd is a fools errand, since 4runner crowd starts at $40s-50s, and they are busy chasing used LC200s and now looking forward to the LC250. The crowd I guess this is chasing are the weekend overland crowd who use to role in new LC200s but are priced out the market with the 100k Lx600.

 

[edyvw]

The Ineos is still a overbuilt BOF not worthy of the local Nordstorm parking lot. The Defender fits that bill perfectly. The LC70 came into the picture, because that was the originally mission statement of Ineos acquiring the old defender tooling. They wanted something that could support the mining industry, like the LC70s. Now a $70k vehicle is not going to be a mining rig, and I agree.

Targeting 4runner/Jeep crowd is a fools errand, since 4runner crowd starts at $40s-50s, and they are busy chasing used LC200s and now looking forward to the LC250. The crowd I guess this is chasing are the weekend overland crowd who use to role in new LC200s but are priced out the market with the 100k Lx600.

LC70 cannot come into that picture as LC70 cannot be exported as it is to numerous developed countries, well, pretty much any that has any crash tests minus several like Australia etc. because of unique environments.
Defender does fit malls, but that is about it, and it is losing that game big time against anything BMW, Mercedes, Lexus etc.
Now, when it comes to 4Runner, yes they start at 40-50k, but very easily go up. Most folks who buy 4Runner are like my neighbors. They have TRD off-road versions and yet saw less mud than all my vehicles, including my BMW that I track. Very few people overland in LC200. Sales numbers proved that. LC200 with crappy tires is a sight in Vail, Aspen etc. So, Ineos might be the next cool thing for them, not some LC200. JEEP's, Broncos, etc. are way up in price too and definitely do not have that engine/transmission combo. I would say, Ineos has a contender. I would say the dealership network will be their biggest obstacle, but then, considering that they are not using anything that does not power average 3 series, parts won't be impossible to source.

 

[jtay2024]

The idea was that it was supposed to be a tough built and easy to look after vehicle that could be fixed like an old Defender could. Then they threw in one of the most complex engine and gearbox setups out there and ruined it's main selling point.

 

[gman2304]

Then they threw in one of the most complex engine and gearbox setups out there and ruined it's main selling point.

When things start going South, just pull the ‘ I ‘ off the nameplate.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

So this vehicle is apparently a THING! I heard something about it, that there is an old Defender alike in the making, but I did not follow the story.
Well, the thing is here, and I can only say: WOW!

Home

INEOS identified a gap in the market for a stripped back, utilitarian, hard-working 4X4 engineered for modern day compliance and reliability. We’re building a serious off-roader from the ground up ready for all American conditions.

ineosgrenadier.com

It looks like an old Defender, it has an analog interior, it has old-style key. Detuned BMW B58 engine paired with ZF8. Even in this thing, BMW pushed the engine back, which means it will be balanced properly even on the road, although it is not its main purpose.
Low range, center locker, rear locker, and front locker. It is boxy, it looks excellent, it has an astonishing engine under the hood with the best and most reliable transmission available. The ONLY downside is, well, the price! The base model goes for $71,000. But, it is REALLY base. Another issue is that the BMW B57 diesel engine is not available in the US. But, I really, REALLY like this thing. I mean, it even has Recaro seats.

Only downside is 15mpg. However compared to the NE company which rebuilds and updates diesel G-wagon military surplus it's a steal at half the price.

Diesel with emissions would be a nightmare

Jeep owners will probably say this vehicle can't Boulder crawl like their wrangler so it's inferior.

 

[Astro14]

Only downside is 15mpg. However compared to the NE company which rebuilds and updates diesel G-wagon military surplus it's a steal.

Diesel with emissions would be a nightmare

If it’s the company I found when Googling, they do beautiful work, but given that care, I reckoned the diesel G wagens they do are $200,000 plus.

Makes me think the new 4Runner is the way to go. Reliable, capable, meets all modern safety and emission standards, and parts are readily available.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

If it’s the company I found when Googling, they do beautiful work, but given that care, I reckoned the diesel G wagens they do are $200,000 plus.

Makes me think the new 4Runner is the way to go. Reliable, capable, meets all modern safety and emission standards, and parts are readily available.

Ya around $160k. I always wanted one of these.

1990 250GD Wolf 067601 - Expedition Motor Company

expeditionmotorcompany.com

 

[2strokeNorthstar]

Glad someone made it, the new defender is a huge let down. It's as much a "defender" as the Maverick is compared to the old Maverick. Just a name. I don't see how anyone would cross shop a Rivian and this. Completely different crowd.

 

[JavierH19]

They should've used an LS engine. GM has a nice cruise-and-connect package they could've used

True but emissions was probably the reason why.

 

[slacktide_bitog]

True but emissions was probably the reason why.

Plenty of emissions-compliant LS-powered trucks in 2023/2024

 

[JavierH19]

Plenty of emissions-compliant LS-powered trucks in 2023/2024

I was checking out chevy's powertrain packages and their most modern offering is the older but still awesome ls3 6.2 with the older 6l80. I don't see an offering for the more efficient modern l84 5.3 and 10l80 which is more comparable to the b58 and zf8 power and emissions wise. Though i don't think gm was willing to do extra work in making it all work together at the same price as bmw. Bmw is not only suppling the powertrain but piecing everything together for them. You can also see the somewhat out of place bmw shifter in the center.

 

[proveitwithdata]

LC70 cannot come into that picture as LC70 cannot be exported as it is to numerous developed countries, well, pretty much any that has any crash tests minus several like Australia etc. because of unique environments.
Defender does fit malls, but that is about it, and it is losing that game big time against anything BMW, Mercedes, Lexus etc.
Now, when it comes to 4Runner, yes they start at 40-50k, but very easily go up. Most folks who buy 4Runner are like my neighbors. They have TRD off-road versions and yet saw less mud than all my vehicles, including my BMW that I track. Very few people overland in LC200. Sales numbers proved that. LC200 with crappy tires is a sight in Vail, Aspen etc. So, Ineos might be the next cool thing for them, not some LC200. JEEP's, Broncos, etc. are way up in price too and definitely do not have that engine/transmission combo. I would say, Ineos has a contender. I would say the dealership network will be their biggest obstacle, but then, considering that they are not using anything that does not power average 3 series, parts won't be impossible to source.

Land Rovers Defenders are not loosing the "big game" in the states. If you look at the sales numbers and pricing they are selling quite handsomely at sticker/adm new or used. BBA products in the states are incentive heavy and/inflated residuals. That being said there is no direct competition to the defender from BBA at its price and they dont need to be since the brand USP is totally different. The BMW powertrain should be fine, I assume they modified the powertrain to live off the beaten path. I dont expect this to be working in Nambia as advertised in their marketing material and the local equivalent of Autozone has a HPFP ready to go.

The 4R starts at 40k, and the majority of volume sold are not TRD off road. I agree most folks who own a BOF product with a USP of offroad worthiness never step foot off road. The LC200 sales# were dismal at best, and they acknowledged that most of the time the enthusiast/millenial who wanted one were priced out. The LC250 is what came of that realization. Folks can now have a spartan interior, hybrid overland energy system that just so happens to power the vehicle with better power numbers and better fuel economy all at the start price of loaded 4R AND still carry the legendary LAND CRUISER nameplate.

Ineos is a slick vehicle, but at 70k if you want a more modern vehicle to live with, R1T is 10K more, you want a more traditional vehicle GX550 Overland, a way more simple and budget friendly vehicle LC250. And of course if you like the defender nordstorm soccer mom troupe then LR will gladly be of service.

 

[slacktide_bitog]

I was checking out chevy's powertrain packages and their most modern offering is the older but still awesome ls3 6.2 with the older 6l80. I don't see an offering for the more efficient modern l84 5.3 and 10l80 which is more comparable to the b58 and zf8 power and emissions wise.

They offer the 5th gen LT1 and LT4. Both are available with the 6L90, 8L90, 10L90, and a 6-speed manual TR6060.

However, I am surprised that they don't offer the LS3 with the 8L90.

Though i don't think gm was willing to do extra work in making it all work together at the same price as bmw. Bmw is not only suppling the powertrain but piecing everything together for them. You can also see the somewhat out of place bmw shifter in the center.

I'm surprised BMW would actually be the cheaper option! I thought these GM turnkey kits already sold to the public would end up costing less, especially at the quantities that Ineos would buy them in

 

[edyvw]

They offer the 5th gen LT1 and LT4. Both are available with the 6L90, 8L90, 10L90, and a 6-speed manual TR6060.

However, I am surprised that they don't offer the LS3 with the 8L90.



I'm surprised BMW would actually be the cheaper option! I thought these GM turnkey kits already sold to the public would end up costing less, especially at the quantities that Ineos would buy them in

V8 cannot match power/efficiency of B58. There would be too much work around emissions for European market where V8 is not popular anyway. Don’t forget, Grenadier comes with B57 diesel engine, which will be majority of sale.