ILSAC GF6 Chain Wear Test

[loneryder]

Wouldn't that throw the CEL? When we first started switching over to 5.7 Chargers from Crown Vics in 2011 we had this issue pop up. Our shop had used Rotella 15w-40 like they did on the Crown Vics and we got a check engine light. I would not have believed the code of "improper oil viscosity" if I had not seen it with my own eyes. They dumped the oil and replaced it with 5w-20 and we have not had an issue since then.....well at least with that particular code!

I talked to some Va. State Troopers who had the Chargers. They really liked them at first because they were fast but after a few months they started having problems with them as in "they had to go to the shop." Then I was in a salvage yard in FL and there sat a burned out State Troopers Charger. Guy told me it just burst into flames while the trooper was writing a ticket on the side of the road. He got out OK.
I wonder how they are doing these days.

 

[OVERKILL]

Wouldn't that throw the CEL? When we first started switching over to 5.7 Chargers from Crown Vics in 2011 we had this issue pop up. Our shop had used Rotella 15w-40 like they did on the Crown Vics and we got a check engine light. I would not have believed the code of "improper oil viscosity" if I had not seen it with my own eyes. They dumped the oil and replaced it with 5w-20 and we have not had an issue since then.....well at least with that particular code!

It will set a code if it is grossly out of whack, but it takes a lot. Former user Clevy on here ran 0w-40 in his MDS Charger and I recall the only time he was able to get the visc code was in a particularly cold snap when it was like -40C, the rest of the time, it was fine.

Of course the engine itself isn't sensitive, same reason the SRT's can run 0w-40 with the same MDS components as the 5.7's that spec 5w-20.

 

[captno4]

I talked to some Va. State Troopers who had the Chargers. They really liked them at first because they were fast but after a few months they started having problems with them as in "they had to go to the shop." Then I was in a salvage yard in FL and there sat a burned out State Troopers Charger. Guy told me it just burst into flames while the trooper was writing a ticket on the side of the road. He got out OK.
I wonder how they are doing these days.

The biggest issue(s) the VSP had with the Chargers were electrical related....specifically electrical interference with their radio system. VSP wanted FCA to fix the electrical issue with the car.....FCA said the electrical issue was not the car but an issue with their radio system. A few of the troopers told me during pursuits radio communication was virtually impossible. I don't know, our cars and neighboring department cars have not experienced that. Local sheriff's departments like I work for seem to have had good mechanical luck with the Chargers.....especially in departments that have take home vehicles. They have certainly been more reliable than the Ford Interceptor cars with the EB.

 

[ka9mnx]

My cop son drives a Charger. Constantly in the shop for front brakes and suspension parts. Their department is going back to Tohoe's. They didn't have good luck with the Explorer's either

 

[captno4]

My cop son drives a Charger. Constantly in the shop for front brakes and suspension parts. Their department is going back to Tohoe's. They didn't have good luck with the Explorer's either

Our RWD Chargers seem to be worse on brakes than the AWD versions. I'd love to go to a Tahoe. I have driven a couple of the pursuit rated versions and they do well. Probably the perfect K9 police vehicle.

 

[Dadof5]

I like this part where he says:

Thinning engine oils is an ongoing trend because of the fuel economy advancements. However, this inclination causes some concerns. Temperature’s effect on viscosity is well documented. At operating temperatures, the engine is protected from friction and wear by a thin oil film. However, if overheating occurs, the thin oil film will degrade and could conceivably result in devastating wear to the engine. Another disadvantage of thinner oils is that abrasive soot and wears debris particulate matter, equal to or greater than the thickness of the oil film, will cause wear4. This underscores the importance of oil filters to prevent wear debris from entering the oil film. As the thin oil trend continues, ILSAC GF-6 must implement standards which balance both engine performance and robustness.

This further proves thicker oils protect better and thinner oils are for fuel economy only.

Thicker does not equate better. unless you have statistical data and peer-reviewed studies to back up your claim it is nothing more than an opinion and not fact.

 

[Dadof5]

And the addition of a PCV valve and a hose that puts that crud back into the intake was a genius invention. Add to that GDI and you no longer wonder how parts & car manufacturers stay in business while we can never own anything that lasts.

the direct gas injection has been around for over 90 years and PCV for over 50.

 

[OVERKILL]

the direct gas injection has been around for over 90 years and PCV for over 50.

Mass produced direct-injection gasoline engines are a relatively new phenomenon. While it's been common in the diesel world for a much longer stint.

 

[OVERKILL]

Thicker does not equate better. unless you have statistical data and peer-reviewed studies to back up your claim it is nothing more than an opinion and not fact.

That's right, it's not necessarily better, but it does mean you have a greater margin to tolerate extremes like higher oil temperatures and thus a reduction in the thickness of the oil film keeping things separated. This is why high performance engines generally spec a heavier lubricant, even in the same engine or engine based on the same architecture.

 

[aquariuscsm]

Thicker does not equate better. unless you have statistical data and peer-reviewed studies to back up your claim it is nothing more than an opinion and not fact.

It's simple physics. Viscosity provides the basic lubrication keeping the moving parts separated, whereas the anti wear additives kick in if the oil film is breached. Reach out to Shannow or Doug Hillary if you want further proof,as these guys are actual engineers. Of course you can't have an SAE70 with no anti wear additives just as you can't have an anti wear add pack with no base oil. It's all about achieving the perfect balance.

Thicker oil=protection. Thinner oil=fuel economy. A fully formulated motor oil=the perfect balance between both.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Thicker does not equate better. unless you have statistical data and peer-reviewed studies to back up your claim it is nothing more than an opinion and not fact.

There are plenty of studies that show that higher HTHS viscosity lowers wear, and generally thicker oils will have a higher HTHS viscosity.

 

[Dadof5]

There are plenty of studies that show that higher HTHS viscosity lowers wear, and generally thicker oils will have a higher HTHS viscosity.

then by your logic, one can discount the research and development people took to design engines with tight tolerances to run on specific viscosities. and by your logic, one should drain 0w16 out of a brand new motor and put in 10W40 in because your logic thicker is better. But don't listen to those that have designed the engine to only run on the thinner viscosity.

 

[OVERKILL]

then by your logic, one can discount the research and development people took to design engines with tight tolerances to run on specific viscosities. and by your logic, one should drain 0w16 out of a brand new motor and put in 10W40 in because your logic thicker is better. But don't listen to those that have designed the engine to only run on the thinner viscosity.

Firstly, no engine is designed to run on a specific viscosity. It can't be because viscosity changes massively with temperature. Also, I think you mean clearances, not tolerances. While tolerances (the deviation from the mean for a given clearance spec) have become tighter by virtue of improved manufacturing technics, the actual clearances between components have not changed much since the IC engine first entered mass commercial production.

One of the changes that has happened however was the increase in bearing width to allow the use of an oil that provides a thinner film without failure. This was mentioned in a Honda paper posted on here years back.

Now, per your depicted scenario, while draining the 0w-16 and putting in 10w-40 wouldn't provide likely any tangible benefit over the useful life of the equipment that doesn't mean that certain aspects of wear performance may not improve. Would they be significant? In all likelihood, no. But just like there would be no real benefit, there'd be no real negative impact either other than perhaps an engine that felt a bit more sluggish and of course a small hit to fuel economy.

 

[spasm3]

then by your logic, one can discount the research and development people took to design engines with tight tolerances to run on specific viscosities. and by your logic, one should drain 0w16 out of a brand new motor and put in 10W40 in because your logic thicker is better. But don't listen to those that have designed the engine to only run on the thinner viscosity.

Correct! I will not run anything less than an xx-30 in any of my engines. In addition, its clearances you are talking about, not tolerances. If you look at honda main bearing clearances now and from say 30 years ago, they are not different.

The engine can't be designed to run on only thinner viscosity. It can be designed to tolerate thinner viscosity, with wider bearings and so forth. The oil is thick cold. A cold xx-20wt is thicker than an xx-40 is when hot.

 

[ZeeOSix]

then by your logic, one can discount the research and development people took to design engines with tight tolerances to run on specific viscosities. and by your logic, one should drain 0w16 out of a brand new motor and put in 10W40 in because your logic thicker is better. But don't listen to those that have designed the engine to only run on the thinner viscosity.

I'd put at least 0W-20 in it, maybe even 0W-30 if in a hot climate. I agree with what OVERKILL and spasm3 said, so no need to add more.

 

[gregk24]

Most 4 cylinders have went away from timing belts? Whose still make a 4 cylinder with a timing belt? Atleast all of mine have chains.

Our VW 1.4 TSI uses a belt.

 

[Jetronic]

Correct! I will not run anything less than an xx-30 in any of my engines. In addition, its clearances you are talking about, not tolerances. If you look at honda main bearing clearances now and from say 30 years ago, they are not different.

The engine can't be designed to run on only thinner viscosity. It can be designed to tolerate thinner viscosity, with wider bearings and so forth. The oil is thick cold. A cold xx-20wt is thicker than an xx-40 is when hot.

Do you have any idea how the length and diameter of the bearings evolved? It makes little sense from a fuel economy standpoint to increase bearing size but reduce oil viscosity. Butr maybe they did it, however they just aswell might have made bearings smaller aswell.

I do think piston skirts have become smaller overall, and a lot of gains are made there, as with low tension piston seals.

 

[aquariuscsm]

Correct! I will not run anything less than an xx-30 in any of my engines.

Same here. I run 10W30 year round in my 0W20 Accord

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Most 4 cylinders have went away from timing belts? Whose still make a 4 cylinder with a timing belt? Atleast all of mine have chains.

My VW has a dry belt on the 1.4tsi engine. Thank Goodness! Chains are for pushrod engines. if the chain is over 5' longs its gonna be problems. at least half of chain cars have major issues with the wet chain timing system. I was Just looking at a LR Range rover 5.o L V8 for cheap. Guess they have major chain issues. I think my old 2012 honda Fit sport had a good chain engine, that used a mechanical ratcheting tensioner. Did not notice and chain noise with that car. and NO VVT rattles either. Far me chain issue started with my 2005 Suzuki 2.3L and then spread to my Toyota Yaris 1NZFE 1.5.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Same here. I run 10W30 year round in my 0W20 Accord

Back when I started driving you wouldnt even run a multigrade where you live Just API SE SAE 30