I wonder sometimes.....

Messages
4,571
Location
Fort Worth, Texas
2011 Honda Pilot, J35 VCM with 123,xxx miles, Compliant.......A/C blowing warm air. Went out to get the vehicle & upon start-up a loud rattle/knocking noise was coming from the engine. I immediately shut it down & checked the oil level....It was within operating range & fairly clean looking. Left it where it was & called the customer to ask about the noise....."Yeah, That's been there for a while" crzy I asked if he would like that looked at? He said "Sure, I guess, But it runs fine" Thought about it being a rocker arm, But the noise wasn't "In Time" with the valvetrain. My long screwdriver to the ear pinpointed it to the timing belt area. Tore the covers off & found what I thought was a collapsed tensioner. Called the customer & quoted a timing belt kit, valve adjustment, & a A/C clutch relay, Customer declined the valve adjustment. Turns out the tensioner was still sound hydraulically, But was worn down or the ram snapped off at the pin hole. Didn't find the tip of the ram anywhere. The tensioner pulley arm had quite a bit of wear as well. He's lucky it didn't jump time, I'm amazed he was more concerned about the A/C! [Linked Image from i.imgur.com] [Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
 
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Messages
2,598
Location
High Tax Illinois
Luck. Some guys could drop a 3/8" bolt down the valve cover and it would bounce thru the engine landing perfectly into the bottom of oil pan damaging nothing. Me? I could drop a "micro-atom" in the valve cover and it would wipe out the entire engine. He has the "luck".
 
Messages
921
Location
D/FW Metroplex
If it were July or August, I would NOT be surprised that someone in Texas was more worried about the A/C than something not-A/C on their car. But to do so in May when it hasnt even approached sweltering yet, yes, that's a little strange.
 
Messages
4,885
Location
the canyons
I got that tensioner in two Aisin T-belt and water pump kits in a row, for a 5VZ-FE. I think someone at Aisin wasn't qualified to assemble the kits.
 
Messages
20,979
Location
Apple Valley, California
I am not amazed at all. I have a van in the shop with 9+ year old Firestone tires that are dry rotted and cracked. They want the AC fixed for their trip to AZ. I mentioned the tires and they are not concerned.
 

4WD

Messages
13,064
Location
Texas
Well Chris … he was driving what is normally a modern quiet engine sounding like a 1939 tractor … Nuff said.
 
Messages
2,895
Location
Richmond, VA
It starts and gets him from A to B. It works in his mind. The AC is not blowing cold, so it does not work. If only life were this simple, we would all be much happier!
 
Messages
1,991
Location
New York City
Originally Posted by Chris142
I am not amazed at all. I have a van in the shop with 9+ year old Firestone tires that are dry rotted and cracked. They want the AC fixed for their trip to AZ. I mentioned the tires and they are not concerned.
Not everyone is a fan, but annual state mandated safety inspections have their place.
 

JHZR2

Staff member
Messages
44,159
Location
New Jersey
Originally Posted by IMSA_Racing_Fan
Declined valve adjustment? My question is why does Honda make a utility daily driver engine that requires valve adjustments?
The longest lasting passenger car engines I'm familiar with (OM616/617 series Mercedes Diesels) require an adjustment every 15-20k miles. The Honda requires it what? Once per timing belt swap at 100k? Think something might have worn just slightly in 100k to justify checking it out and seeing if anything should be adjusted? Valves tighten as they wear. Self-adjusting hydraulic lifters do clog and stop working as well as they did originally. Seems like sound practice regardless of manufacturer. I recall that our Toyota Previa (which was another super-long lasting and robust engine) had an optional valve adjustment as best practice once in a very long while. Timing belts that routinely last past 100k arent a bad thing. Getting into the engine once every 100k isnt a bad thing. Looking at valves, which is super easy on a 4 cyl (which is most of what Honda makes) isnt a bad thing. And lest we go down the path of some superiority for chains, they do break, their tensioners and guides do fail, and a chain should be tested for wear in a process that aligns the cam and the crank, to look for number of degrees misalignment. That should be fixed by a new chain or at minimum, offset woodruff keys. The fact that nobody adheres to this as a general rule doesnt make them right.
 
Messages
9,472
Location
Ontario, Canada
My parents have had a few honda 4 cyls over 200k miles that were mostly dealer serviced and they never had valve adjustment done as far as they know. I bought the their last one, a 2006 CRV with 200k miles and had the service rep check its history and he couldn't find a record of it being done. So even though the valves sounded fine, I had them done. Basically it wasn't needed, they were all within the specs with a couple close to the tight limit but probably would've been fine for the next 3 years we had it. Maybe the V6's have more valve wear but I suspect 90% never get an adjustment done and never have a problem. I imagine getting to that back bank must be time consuming as well.
 
Messages
16,249
Location
NH
Maybe today's better oils cut down on the need for valvetrain adjustment? Pure speculation on my part, but I wonder if today's various anti-wear additives are making a difference in this spot of the engine.
 
Messages
5,918
Location
Storrs, Connecticut
Wow good catch! The customer might not think so, but you saved them big time. I'm not surprised they are more concerned about the A/C. It's sad, but people's ignorance about cars is what ends up costing them a ton of money in the long run. The engine would've likely stopped running at some point, and then the customer would've likely thought "dang Honda and their junk engines, I'm not buying a Honda anymore" and then moved on to some other brand which would eventually lead to the same issue. Most people aren't concerned about a car's drive train until the car stops moving, and by then it's too late.
 

JHZR2

Staff member
Messages
44,159
Location
New Jersey
Originally Posted by IndyIan
My parents have had a few honda 4 cyls over 200k miles that were mostly dealer serviced and they never had valve adjustment done as far as they know. I bought the their last one, a 2006 CRV with 200k miles and had the service rep check its history and he couldn't find a record of it being done. So even though the valves sounded fine, I had them done. Basically it wasn't needed, they were all within the specs with a couple close to the tight limit but probably would've been fine for the next 3 years we had it. Maybe the V6's have more valve wear but I suspect 90% never get an adjustment done and never have a problem. I imagine getting to that back bank must be time consuming as well.
Unless Hondas are much more complicated, the test is just to get a cam lobe to a specific position, and measure clearance. A few spot checks at a dealer might be indicative and sufficient. If not done, so be it. Even on my older cars not all valves are ever out of spec.
Originally Posted by supton
Maybe today's better oils cut down on the need for valvetrain adjustment? Pure speculation on my part, but I wonder if today's various anti-wear additives are making a difference in this spot of the engine.
My understanding is that it is due to valve seat recession - something that will happen on any engine.
 
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