quote:
Originally posted by moribundman:
My daddy is better than your daddy.
quote:
Originally posted by moribundman:
My daddy is better than your daddy.
Um, how do we know that? I have never been able to find any published specifications for the Made in Germany version of Castrol USA's 0W-30 oil. The Castrol USA product data sheet says nothing about HTHS, though it does say that Castrol Syntec 0W-30 meets ACEA A1/A3 whilst the Syntec 5W-30 is an A1/A5 product.quote:
GC has an HTHS of 3.6
Well, which anthem do you sing before you make a post?quote:
I know you are but what am I [Big Grin] [Patriot] [Canada]
Garry Allan, I laughed so hard at the above!!!quote:
Never leave any potential market unexplored. People walk in droves into Wally World like cattle to buy junk.
quote:
Originally posted by moribundman:
Well, which anthem do you sing before you make a post?quote:
I know you are but what am I [Big Grin] [Patriot] [Canada]
From the data sheet that Castrol in Germany sent me and that I posted on here way back when we first started seeing GC on the shelves.quote:
Originally posted by jthorner:
Um, how do we know that? I have never been able to find any published specifications for the Made in Germany version of Castrol USA's 0W-30 oil. The Castrol USA product data sheet says nothing about HTHS, though it does say that Castrol Syntec 0W-30 meets ACEA A1/A3 whilst the Syntec 5W-30 is an A1/A5 product.quote:
GC has an HTHS of 3.6
Some people have speculated that this might be the same oil as European SLX, but others say that isn't true.
Where does this 3.6 number come from?
John
Well, I didn't see any cavitation or starvation with 20w-50 after an overnight 32F start @ 41F in my filter bypass valve test. Now I could surely see differences ..but my engine suffered no more than putting out the required hp to pump it.quote:
1) Were is the proof of Cavitaion and starvation with a 40Wt. oil at ambient temps of 70°F?
Same reason I put 20w-50 in a minivan ..to buck convention and maybe prove a point.quote:
5) Why should someone use a 20Wt. off application where not at all recomended?
Tell us about your expierence with A1 vs A3 oils. Post the comparitive UOAs so we can see how the A3 oils have held up better. Thanks.quote:
Originally posted by Dr. T:
A3 oil's hold up much better than A1 from my experience.
What do you mean you can't see using a 20wt? Do you read the analysis results posted on here? How many more UOA's is it going to take for you to accept the fact that 20wt oils are built well and doing the job, period. Get over it. If your manual calls for a A3 oil, use one then. Where is your proof anyway? You always talk like you have this wealth of data that shows you this but I've yet to seet it.quote:
I just can't see using any 0/5-20 (in temps. over 20C) for 10k OCI's and then expecting a clean, non-oil consuming engine at 100+k. 3-4k OCI's may be a different story.
I may as well pick a side and jump in.quote:
Originally posted by 1sttruck:
1. 5W20 is used because of tighter clearances..... no, as the same engines seem to use heavier oils outside of the US. This is an important point as 'tighter clearances' is a design attribute which if true would REQUIRE thinner oil, but since it's not they don't except in the US.
2. 5W20 oil is needed for the higher revving engines....no, as car engines tend to be revved much higher for longer periods in places like Germany, where they tend to use the thicker stuff. Motorcycles rev to limits that few cars see, and they also use the thicker stuff.
3. 5W20 is used in racing, proving it's durability....no, racing engines are pretty much a consumable in a big buck operation, that's why thicker oils are often used in owner owned races like rallys and such, where engines need to last. Delvac 1 seems to be common solution for wear in small buck racing
4. 5W20 was developed to produce better engine life.....no, and 5W20 advocates really need to work on this one, the Ford TSB specifically states that it was being used for fuel economy reasons.
I never said that. In the same light, you can't conclude that thicker oil is better just because it is used elsewhere. It's quite possible it's just as good or better when it was validated for use in the US, however, for marketing, distribution, or public awarness reasons the manufacturers chose not to specify it elsewhere.quote:
Originally posted by 1sttruck:
The point is that '5w20 is required because of tighter clearances' is false, otherwise the same engines with the same clearances being used in other parts of the world would also be REQUIRED to use 5w20. 5w20 is not required to be used, and in fact other, heavier oils appear to be used in other parts of the world.
Similar features and an oil being validated for use on a particular engine design is quite a stretch. I can put fuel injection on my lawnmower, and it's not going to change the lubrication requirements. And in all actuality, lubrication trends have been generally moving in the direction of less viscious oils over the past 30 years as the chemistry of the basestocks, AW/FM, and VII have improved. Higher viscosity oils may provide less wear in certain engines that require them, but it's false logic to say that that proves it provides better protection in all engines.quote:
Originally posted by 1sttruck:
Motorcycle engines are becoming more similar to car engines, higher output for normally aspirated engines excluded, as they're using fuel injection, water cooling, oil cooling, etc. They need better cooling for the increasingly higher outputs. Like turbos in diesels or gas engines, or high performance cars run at high sustained speeds, motorcycles are a good example of durability with sustained high rpm use, provided the typical heavier oils with robust additives are used. The point is that the 'equal or better wear protection' argument is false, as heavier, not lighter oils are used in these situations.
Fine, then please no more justification of 5w40 'cause the ralleye teams use it'.quote:
Originally posted by 1sttruck:
Fine, then please no more justification of 5w20 'cause the race teams use it'.
Another leap of logic. Just because 0-5w20s are not recommended for certain engines doesn't mean they provide less protection in others. Further, it just may mean that it wasn't validated in those engines because Ford didn't want to spend the money to do so.quote:
Originally posted by 1sttruck:
It is a fact that 5w20 does not provide the same or better wear protection than the heavier oils that it replaced, Ford even acknowledges this as 5w20 was NOT recommended to be used in all vehicles..
You've been duped there. That's not what it says in the Japanese manuals.quote:
Originally posted by 1sttruck:
Honda acknowledges the same, as they state that while 5w20 provides good fuel economy it is not to be used for sustained high speed operation...
Nice belief system. And that's all it is until your personal views are validated in a properly conducted test on a significant number of real engines for the environment they were designed for.quote:
Originally posted by 1sttruck:
Most importantly though is the need to ackowledge the obvious; 5w20 was recommended for fuel economy...as it does not provide the same protection as the heavier oils that it replaced.
I'm sorry, that simply isn't true. If you meant to say that making each vehicle just a few hundred pounds lighter would increase mpg, then I agree. Minor adjustments to displacement, however, (275 cu. in. versus 280 for example) are truly irrelevant.quote:
Originally posted by AEHaas:
...If you want 1 or 2 MPG better then make the engine a few cc smaller. If every engine was just a little smaller then you get better gas mileage for the whole car line-up...
John, thanks for the little lesson. RD&T of aircraft jet engines is what I did in the AF for 10 years. I believe I have a clue on their principles of operation. However, you are right, the demands on the lubricants is in many ways different between them and an IC engine. The point I was trying to make was that strictly going by the RPMs of a device is not the best indicator of it's lubrication requirements. Think turbocharger if you like.quote:
Originally posted by JohnBrowning:
427Z06, Jet/Tubines are totaly different then IC engine.