How much antiseize do you usually use?
- Thread starter ZZman
- Start date
- Status
Originally Posted By: andyd
Does anti seize work on exhaust studs? I would think the heat cycling would melt it out over time. The best thing I've found for exhaust studs is those long brass nuts or the copper one in my BMW. Jimzz, next time you need a bolt try your local Ace hardware.
Oh I tried them and all the parts stores as well. It had to have the exact thread, fine metric, and right thickness since it went through a control arm and frame.
Let alone its a Grade 10 bolt. I could live with a 8 but many at hardware stores are Grade 5 at best.
For exhaust the anti-seize does seem to slow rust down. It will work its way off on bolts on the header/near the motor. But further back can last years.
Does anti seize work on exhaust studs? I would think the heat cycling would melt it out over time. The best thing I've found for exhaust studs is those long brass nuts or the copper one in my BMW. Jimzz, next time you need a bolt try your local Ace hardware.
Oh I tried them and all the parts stores as well. It had to have the exact thread, fine metric, and right thickness since it went through a control arm and frame.
Let alone its a Grade 10 bolt. I could live with a 8 but many at hardware stores are Grade 5 at best.
For exhaust the anti-seize does seem to slow rust down. It will work its way off on bolts on the header/near the motor. But further back can last years.
Originally Posted By: andyd
Does anti seize work on exhaust studs? I would think the heat cycling would melt it out over time.
It has something to do with the aluminum that's in the anti-seize that keeps it from burning off.
Does anti seize work on exhaust studs? I would think the heat cycling would melt it out over time.
It has something to do with the aluminum that's in the anti-seize that keeps it from burning off.
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Originally Posted By: andyd
Does anti seize work on exhaust studs? I would think the heat cycling would melt it out over time.
It has something to do with the aluminum that's in the anti-seize that keeps it from burning off.
I'd assume that the aluminium stays put and the grease burns off. Following that assumption, I just put foil on the bolts or rub them with a tyre weight, assuming its the metal that's relevant.
Originally Posted By: andyd
Does anti seize work on exhaust studs? I would think the heat cycling would melt it out over time.
It has something to do with the aluminum that's in the anti-seize that keeps it from burning off.
I'd assume that the aluminium stays put and the grease burns off. Following that assumption, I just put foil on the bolts or rub them with a tyre weight, assuming its the metal that's relevant.
Volvo Turbo Paste was the only antiseize that actually does anything on exhaust studs.
Originally Posted By: Ducked
Originally Posted By: ArcticDriver
Originally Posted By: Ducked
Usually none. Can't get it here.
I use various improvised substitutes like PTFE or polythene film, wax, grease, aluminium foil, or a rub with an old tyre weight, depending on the application.
I have a very small and locally irreplacable tube of Permatex Silver that I use very sparingly on critical applications like brake sliders.
Taiwan is surrounded by ocean. Are you sure you can't get a "marine" grade at a boating supply?
Extraordinary.
Why would it not be available?
Never heard of Marine grade antiseize, though I daresay it exists. Don't quite get the "If you can't find something that should be common, look for something that should be rather obscure" strategy.
Anyway, it isn't just me. That could just be a lack of language and contacts. British mechanic that runs a car-sourcing business here told me he had to import it specially and the importer told him he was the only user he was aware of in Taiwan. Special brake greases likewise.
Its unsurprising it isn't available in DIY consumer quantities since there are no DIY consumers, (There's very little "boating" either, since it was illegal until fairly recently) but the above suggests the pro's don't use it either, which would be surprising if you'd never encountered a Taiwanese mechanic.
However, I did track down a rather rusty 1kg tin (which may be the only one in Taiwan), but I didn't buy it since I'd got pretty comfortable with the improvisations by then and it would have lasted me until the heat death of the universe.
Why? um..a certain lack of..er..professionalism, I suppose.
Marine grade anti-seize is only "obscure" to you because you are unfamiliar with the typical practices shipboard; however, that does not actually make the product "obscure" to the boating/fishing community. It is used by yachters and commercial fishing vessels the world over. Its a staple product in chandleries throughout ROK to SE Asia.
You stated anti-seize is not available in automotive community and I simply suggested you could broaden your search to the suppliers of marine watercraft which are exposed to the harsher conditions of the maritime environment where corrosion and rust ussues are much worse.
Think outside the box.
Originally Posted By: ArcticDriver
Originally Posted By: Ducked
Usually none. Can't get it here.
I use various improvised substitutes like PTFE or polythene film, wax, grease, aluminium foil, or a rub with an old tyre weight, depending on the application.
I have a very small and locally irreplacable tube of Permatex Silver that I use very sparingly on critical applications like brake sliders.
Taiwan is surrounded by ocean. Are you sure you can't get a "marine" grade at a boating supply?
Extraordinary.
Why would it not be available?
Never heard of Marine grade antiseize, though I daresay it exists. Don't quite get the "If you can't find something that should be common, look for something that should be rather obscure" strategy.
Anyway, it isn't just me. That could just be a lack of language and contacts. British mechanic that runs a car-sourcing business here told me he had to import it specially and the importer told him he was the only user he was aware of in Taiwan. Special brake greases likewise.
Its unsurprising it isn't available in DIY consumer quantities since there are no DIY consumers, (There's very little "boating" either, since it was illegal until fairly recently) but the above suggests the pro's don't use it either, which would be surprising if you'd never encountered a Taiwanese mechanic.
However, I did track down a rather rusty 1kg tin (which may be the only one in Taiwan), but I didn't buy it since I'd got pretty comfortable with the improvisations by then and it would have lasted me until the heat death of the universe.
Why? um..a certain lack of..er..professionalism, I suppose.
Marine grade anti-seize is only "obscure" to you because you are unfamiliar with the typical practices shipboard; however, that does not actually make the product "obscure" to the boating/fishing community. It is used by yachters and commercial fishing vessels the world over. Its a staple product in chandleries throughout ROK to SE Asia.
You stated anti-seize is not available in automotive community and I simply suggested you could broaden your search to the suppliers of marine watercraft which are exposed to the harsher conditions of the maritime environment where corrosion and rust ussues are much worse.
Think outside the box.
Originally Posted By: ArcticDriver
Originally Posted By: Ducked
Originally Posted By: ArcticDriver
Originally Posted By: Ducked
Usually none. Can't get it here.
I use various improvised substitutes like PTFE or polythene film, wax, grease, aluminium foil, or a rub with an old tyre weight, depending on the application.
I have a very small and locally irreplacable tube of Permatex Silver that I use very sparingly on critical applications like brake sliders.
Taiwan is surrounded by ocean. Are you sure you can't get a "marine" grade at a boating supply?
Extraordinary.
Why would it not be available?
Never heard of Marine grade antiseize, though I daresay it exists. Don't quite get the "If you can't find something that should be common, look for something that should be rather obscure" strategy.
Anyway, it isn't just me. That could just be a lack of language and contacts. British mechanic that runs a car-sourcing business here told me he had to import it specially and the importer told him he was the only user he was aware of in Taiwan. Special brake greases likewise.
Its unsurprising it isn't available in DIY consumer quantities since there are no DIY consumers, (There's very little "boating" either, since it was illegal until fairly recently) but the above suggests the pro's don't use it either, which would be surprising if you'd never encountered a Taiwanese mechanic.
However, I did track down a rather rusty 1kg tin (which may be the only one in Taiwan), but I didn't buy it since I'd got pretty comfortable with the improvisations by then and it would have lasted me until the heat death of the universe.
Why? um..a certain lack of..er..professionalism, I suppose.
Marine grade anti-seize is only "obscure" to you because you are unfamiliar with the typical practices shipboard; however, that does not actually make the product "obscure" to the boating/fishing community. It is used by yachters and commercial fishing vessels the world over. Its a staple product in chandleries throughout ROK to SE Asia.
You stated anti-seize is not available in automotive community and I simply suggested you could broaden your search to the suppliers of marine watercraft which are exposed to the harsher conditions of the maritime environment where corrosion and rust ussues are much worse.
Think outside the box.
OK, but it only isn't obscure to you because you are familiar with normal shipboard practice, and you assume Taiwanese on Taiwanese ships are too. I wouldn't bet on it.
Its obscure because its inherently harder to find than an automotive product. It'd be harder to find in the UK, where there is a significant "boating" industry.
Here, I'd have to find a commercial shipping chandler.
I'd have to know the Chinese, Taiwanese, and Japlish for marine grade antiseize.
I'd have to find a Taiwanese commercial shipping chandler employee who is willing to listen to a foreigner and knows the Chinese, Taiwanese, or Japlish for marine grade antiseize. (they'll be VERY RARE, I'm betting)
I'd then have to persuade them to sell or give me a tiny quantity when they are set up to supply cargo and commercial fishing vessels, in the unlikely event that they are set up to supply anyone.
Not going to happen. Think outside your own box.
Quite a lot easier and quicker just to make my own.
Originally Posted By: Ducked
Originally Posted By: ArcticDriver
Originally Posted By: Ducked
Usually none. Can't get it here.
I use various improvised substitutes like PTFE or polythene film, wax, grease, aluminium foil, or a rub with an old tyre weight, depending on the application.
I have a very small and locally irreplacable tube of Permatex Silver that I use very sparingly on critical applications like brake sliders.
Taiwan is surrounded by ocean. Are you sure you can't get a "marine" grade at a boating supply?
Extraordinary.
Why would it not be available?
Never heard of Marine grade antiseize, though I daresay it exists. Don't quite get the "If you can't find something that should be common, look for something that should be rather obscure" strategy.
Anyway, it isn't just me. That could just be a lack of language and contacts. British mechanic that runs a car-sourcing business here told me he had to import it specially and the importer told him he was the only user he was aware of in Taiwan. Special brake greases likewise.
Its unsurprising it isn't available in DIY consumer quantities since there are no DIY consumers, (There's very little "boating" either, since it was illegal until fairly recently) but the above suggests the pro's don't use it either, which would be surprising if you'd never encountered a Taiwanese mechanic.
However, I did track down a rather rusty 1kg tin (which may be the only one in Taiwan), but I didn't buy it since I'd got pretty comfortable with the improvisations by then and it would have lasted me until the heat death of the universe.
Why? um..a certain lack of..er..professionalism, I suppose.
Marine grade anti-seize is only "obscure" to you because you are unfamiliar with the typical practices shipboard; however, that does not actually make the product "obscure" to the boating/fishing community. It is used by yachters and commercial fishing vessels the world over. Its a staple product in chandleries throughout ROK to SE Asia.
You stated anti-seize is not available in automotive community and I simply suggested you could broaden your search to the suppliers of marine watercraft which are exposed to the harsher conditions of the maritime environment where corrosion and rust ussues are much worse.
Think outside the box.
OK, but it only isn't obscure to you because you are familiar with normal shipboard practice, and you assume Taiwanese on Taiwanese ships are too. I wouldn't bet on it.
Its obscure because its inherently harder to find than an automotive product. It'd be harder to find in the UK, where there is a significant "boating" industry.
Here, I'd have to find a commercial shipping chandler.
I'd have to know the Chinese, Taiwanese, and Japlish for marine grade antiseize.
I'd have to find a Taiwanese commercial shipping chandler employee who is willing to listen to a foreigner and knows the Chinese, Taiwanese, or Japlish for marine grade antiseize. (they'll be VERY RARE, I'm betting)
I'd then have to persuade them to sell or give me a tiny quantity when they are set up to supply cargo and commercial fishing vessels, in the unlikely event that they are set up to supply anyone.
Not going to happen. Think outside your own box.
Quite a lot easier and quicker just to make my own.
Somewhere on The Nyet I've seen reference to a common household chemical (or perhaps I should say, formerly common, since in the UK at least, cheap generics have largely been replaced by more expensive branded products) used as a high temp anti seize on B52 engines.
I think it might have been Borax, but I'm not sure.
Can't find it now.
I think it might have been Borax, but I'm not sure.
Can't find it now.
1. Just a dab
I may put a couple dabs on if it's a particularly long piece of hardware. You don't need much for the stuff to work. Any extra just makes a mess
I may put a couple dabs on if it's a particularly long piece of hardware. You don't need much for the stuff to work. Any extra just makes a mess
Originally Posted By: Ducked
I'd assume that the aluminum stays put and the grease burns off. Following that assumption, I just put foil on the bolts or rub them with a tyre weight, assuming its the metal that's relevant.
All I know is it works very well and if properly applied, gives the bolt a beautiful silver paint job.
I'd assume that the aluminum stays put and the grease burns off. Following that assumption, I just put foil on the bolts or rub them with a tyre weight, assuming its the metal that's relevant.
All I know is it works very well and if properly applied, gives the bolt a beautiful silver paint job.
#1, but at the end of the job I typically look like #4.
As a pro tech, we don't even have any in the shop.
Originally Posted By: mightymousetech
As a pro tech, we don't even have any in the shop.
Taiwanese-owned company?
I suppose pro's might be less concerned about what happens a few years down the line, but, cynicism aside, that does tend to confirm my impression that anti-seize often isn't as essential as many people make out.
Here in Taiwan its probably dispensable partly because there's no salting (Apart from "coastal" vehicles. My car was owned by a surfer: something to avoid anywhere) and partly because there are very few old cars (Mine is 31 years, which is shock-horror-disbelief unusual).
I'd be more concerned by the probable lack of special brake greases, which I'd bet means they use standard oil-based lithium , not unknown with British mechanics in my admittedly very limited experience of British mechanics.
Even that may not be such a big deal. Certainly there seems to be little interest in the question of rubber compatability of grease in CV boots and track rod ends, which I've tried to raise on here a couple of times to null response.
As a pro tech, we don't even have any in the shop.
Taiwanese-owned company?
I suppose pro's might be less concerned about what happens a few years down the line, but, cynicism aside, that does tend to confirm my impression that anti-seize often isn't as essential as many people make out.
Here in Taiwan its probably dispensable partly because there's no salting (Apart from "coastal" vehicles. My car was owned by a surfer: something to avoid anywhere) and partly because there are very few old cars (Mine is 31 years, which is shock-horror-disbelief unusual).
I'd be more concerned by the probable lack of special brake greases, which I'd bet means they use standard oil-based lithium , not unknown with British mechanics in my admittedly very limited experience of British mechanics.
Even that may not be such a big deal. Certainly there seems to be little interest in the question of rubber compatability of grease in CV boots and track rod ends, which I've tried to raise on here a couple of times to null response.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Ducked
I suppose pro's might be less concerned about what happens a few years down the line, but, cynicism aside, that does tend to confirm my impression that anti-seize often isn't as essential as many people make out.
"Essential" is a matter of opinion. Does it get repaired NOW? Yes? Not essential (from a Tech's perspective). Does it enable a future repair without replacing more rust-fused components? Essential for a car loving owner and DIY guy. Not Essential for a Tech.
It's not cynicism, it's reality. Anti-seize (usually) only matters outside the repair warranty period, for the next guy doing the job over. That may never happen with many cars, and "making it easier" for the next pro just means the next pro can't charge extra for a larger repair, to replace more rust-fused components. And if the next guy is a DIY, yeah, zero interest there.
Add to that the facts that 1.) it might create a come-back if something gets loose and b.) that anti-seize is messy, and c) adds a minute or two to the repair, and you have a no-brainer. Many techs on the clock are going to skip it.
I suppose pro's might be less concerned about what happens a few years down the line, but, cynicism aside, that does tend to confirm my impression that anti-seize often isn't as essential as many people make out.
"Essential" is a matter of opinion. Does it get repaired NOW? Yes? Not essential (from a Tech's perspective). Does it enable a future repair without replacing more rust-fused components? Essential for a car loving owner and DIY guy. Not Essential for a Tech.
It's not cynicism, it's reality. Anti-seize (usually) only matters outside the repair warranty period, for the next guy doing the job over. That may never happen with many cars, and "making it easier" for the next pro just means the next pro can't charge extra for a larger repair, to replace more rust-fused components. And if the next guy is a DIY, yeah, zero interest there.
Add to that the facts that 1.) it might create a come-back if something gets loose and b.) that anti-seize is messy, and c) adds a minute or two to the repair, and you have a no-brainer. Many techs on the clock are going to skip it.
Originally Posted By: HangFire
Originally Posted By: Ducked
I suppose pro's might be less concerned about what happens a few years down the line, but, cynicism aside, that does tend to confirm my impression that anti-seize often isn't as essential as many people make out.
"Essential" is a matter of opinion. Does it get repaired NOW? Yes? Not essential (from a Tech's perspective). Does it enable a future repair without replacing more rust-fused components? Essential for a car loving owner and DIY guy. Not Essential for a Tech.
Well, if its only of interest to DIY mechanics, that might be another reason why it's unobtainable in Taiwan, because there are VERY, VERY few DIY mechanics here. There's me, and..one or two other foreigners, and....?
Even for DIY, though, in most cases "ordinary" chassis grease is going to last a few years apart from in high temperature applications like exhaust studs and (non-plated?) spark plugs. AFAIK most if not all anti-seize contains metal, which is persistent, temperature resistant and may have an electrochemical effect for good or ill, but other solids might also be effective.
Some greases have a bentonite or clay filler and since they are cheaper I'd guess that might include some local brands of chassis grease. Ford bearing grease (which I tried unsuccessfully to buy from a Ford main dealer here) has polythene in it which may make it more persistent.
These days I use cheapo local chassis grease and put a bit of thin polythene bag on external threads like wheel studs. Its free, and sadly you can find it lying around almost anywhere. I think it might also have a thread-locking effect, nyloc stylee, and even the finest biodegradable German polythene is going to be fairly persistent on an unexposed thread.
Originally Posted By: Ducked
I suppose pro's might be less concerned about what happens a few years down the line, but, cynicism aside, that does tend to confirm my impression that anti-seize often isn't as essential as many people make out.
"Essential" is a matter of opinion. Does it get repaired NOW? Yes? Not essential (from a Tech's perspective). Does it enable a future repair without replacing more rust-fused components? Essential for a car loving owner and DIY guy. Not Essential for a Tech.
Well, if its only of interest to DIY mechanics, that might be another reason why it's unobtainable in Taiwan, because there are VERY, VERY few DIY mechanics here. There's me, and..one or two other foreigners, and....?
Even for DIY, though, in most cases "ordinary" chassis grease is going to last a few years apart from in high temperature applications like exhaust studs and (non-plated?) spark plugs. AFAIK most if not all anti-seize contains metal, which is persistent, temperature resistant and may have an electrochemical effect for good or ill, but other solids might also be effective.
Some greases have a bentonite or clay filler and since they are cheaper I'd guess that might include some local brands of chassis grease. Ford bearing grease (which I tried unsuccessfully to buy from a Ford main dealer here) has polythene in it which may make it more persistent.
These days I use cheapo local chassis grease and put a bit of thin polythene bag on external threads like wheel studs. Its free, and sadly you can find it lying around almost anywhere. I think it might also have a thread-locking effect, nyloc stylee, and even the finest biodegradable German polythene is going to be fairly persistent on an unexposed thread.
Ducked, you know your environment in Taiwan. You are on the interweb, why can't you get somebody to send you small quantities of various hard to come by stuff? Your use of aluminum foil intrigues me. I've been breaking up my first 528e. When I can't get anywhere with wrenches, I resort to a POJ HF 4" grinder with a cut off wheel. It walks through AL
I use just a dab, sometimes I will put a dab on one bolt and take another bolt and work the threads against each other to spread and apply it to both bolts.
I know a machinist that uses either antiseize or thread locker on every bolt. Either one insures that the bolt can be removed later.
I know a machinist that uses either antiseize or thread locker on every bolt. Either one insures that the bolt can be removed later.
- Status
