Have you ever leased a vehicle? Which one(s)?

[Wolf359]

Originally Posted By: lovcom
Dave Ramsey is a self-made multi-millionaire.

You are NOT.

Dave buys. You lease. I buy.

It seems Dave is better at math than you are.

End of story.


You're wrong on multiple levels. First, I paid cash for both Mercedes that I have, they were both used. I don't lease.

Read carefully and tell me where I said I lease. Same as doing the math.

All I said was that you had to do the math to evaluate any deal.

End of story.

 

[lovcom]

Originally Posted By: CKN
Originally Posted By: lovcom
Dave Ramsey is a self-made multi-millionaire.

You are NOT.

Dave buys. You lease. I buy.

It seems Dave is better at math than you are.

End of story.


Nope-not end of story. I will tell you I did the opposite of what Mr. Ramsey preaches and was able to retire at 54 years old.


This included mortgages on multiple rental properties, etc.

The problem with Dave Ramsey is he deals in absolutes-and "black and white". So no credit cards period. I have three-pay them off every month and enjoy the rebates one gets with a FICO over 800.

I know at least three young couples who are "followers" and can't buy a house because they have ZERO CREDIT-no credit history and no FICO score.

And yes "manual underwriting" is a "catch phrase" he uses that doesn't exist-at least for young people with no Hard assets (other than a down payment) trying to get in to their first house.


Your situation is like the guy who smoked all of his 90 years of age and says "doctors are all wrong...I smoked 3 packs a day for 90 years and I am ok".

Statistics are your friend.

You retiring at 54 shows that one can smoke 3 packs a day and not have a sick day in their lives.

In other words, you prove nothing.

 

[lovcom]

Originally Posted By: ZZman
Originally Posted By: lovcom
Originally Posted By: ZZman
A lease isn't a bad deal depending on what is important to the owner.
1. Do you usually have a car payment anyway?
2. Do you enjoy driving the newest type vehicle?
3. Do you get bored with vehicles after a few years?
4. Does the possibility of huge repair expenses concern you?
5. Do you normally maintain your vehicles reasonably and drive average to low miles?
6. If you decide you really like the vehicle you can then buy it.


Most of these reason are really silly.


You will not find a decent financial planner in America that would agree with your reasoning here.


But all legit reasons and reasonable. Most people don't run their lives based on what financial planners think.


True.

Most people are broke. Thanks for making my point!

 

[MCompact]

I try to avoid consumer debt, but not to the point that I'm locked in to driving a soul-killing anodyne appliance.
But that's just me.

 

[Wolf359]

Originally Posted By: lovcom
It seems Dave is better at math than you are.


Just for fun, I looked him, up, he has a degree in finance. My degree is in engineering. I think my math might be better than his, but I don't think there's much of a call for doing Laplace transforms when it comes to finance.

He also pushes dubious financial methods such as paying off the debt with the lowest balance, not the one with the highest interest rate on the theory that it's a psychological trick that works, not a financial trick.

 

[JeffKeryk]

I did not wanna explicitly say it, but if you need help from Mr. Ramsey, you do not know squat about finance.
He does help people get outta trouble (good); mainly people who do not understand arithmetic.

Mr. Ramsey is overly simplistic which is probably good for some people but is hardly optimal.
And he does not take market timing into his financial planning.
Debt can be a good thing or a bad thing.

What I do like about Mr. Ramsey's advice is he promotes fiscal discipline, which is key.

Just like this post regarding car leasing, there is no "one size fits all".

 

[Wolf359]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a big fan of leasing. But when the manufacturers shift all the incentives over to the lease instead of the purchase side, then in certain circumstances, it can make sense. The big mistake is to follow old truisms without actually investigating the details of the deals. Over the years, there's lots of people who have given away free money like there used to be free oil a few years back but they stopped that. If a manufacturer wants to prop up their sales numbers by running lots of incentives on a lease deal, then it's fine to take advantage of them if the deal is good. You just need to know how to do the math and to actually do it to see if it's a good deal or not. I see it in the Mercedes forum all the time, cheaper for someone to turn in their car at the end of the lease and buy it back for 5k less than the residual value. What does that tell you? The residual value was too high and you got a below market lease and there was extra depreciation that you didn't end up paying for.

 

[MCompact]

Originally Posted By: Wolf359
Don't get me wrong, I'm not a big fan of leasing. But when the manufacturers shift all the incentives over to the lease instead of the purchase side, then in certain circumstances, it can make sense. The big mistake is to follow old truisms without actually investigating the details of the deals. Over the years, there's lots of people who have given away free money like there used to be free oil a few years back but they stopped that. If a manufacturer wants to prop up their sales numbers by running lots of incentives on a lease deal, then it's fine to take advantage of them if the deal is good. You just need to know how to do the math and to actually do it to see if it's a good deal or not. I see it in the Mercedes forum all the time, cheaper for someone to turn in their car at the end of the lease and buy it back for 5k less than the residual value. What does that tell you? The residual value was too high and you got a below market lease and there was extra depreciation that you didn't end up paying for.


Exactly; the residual on my i3 is approximately double what it's actually going to be worth. If I wasn't looking at paring down the fleet I'd buy it in a heartbeat.

 

[SwampSurvivor]

Originally Posted By: Wolf359
Don't get me wrong, I'm not a big fan of leasing. But when the manufacturers shift all the incentives over to the lease instead of the purchase side, then in certain circumstances, it can make sense. The big mistake is to follow old truisms without actually investigating the details of the deals. Over the years, there's lots of people who have given away free money like there used to be free oil a few years back but they stopped that. If a manufacturer wants to prop up their sales numbers by running lots of incentives on a lease deal, then it's fine to take advantage of them if the deal is good. You just need to know how to do the math and to actually do it to see if it's a good deal or not. I see it in the Mercedes forum all the time, cheaper for someone to turn in their car at the end of the lease and buy it back for 5k less than the residual value. What does that tell you? The residual value was too high and you got a below market lease and there was extra depreciation that you didn't end up paying for.


When Nissan is offering a lease for $100 down and $100 a month ... I'm not quite sure how it works out for the manufacturer, but I have a few friends who have leases on Nissans for $100 or $200 a month with very little down. I certainly wouldn't buy a used nissan for $7200 off new MSRP ...

 

[Wolf359]

Originally Posted By: Miller88
When Nissan is offering a lease for $100 down and $100 a month ... I'm not quite sure how it works out for the manufacturer, but I have a few friends who have leases on Nissans for $100 or $200 a month with very little down. I certainly wouldn't buy a used nissan for $7200 off new MSRP ...


The other reason that leasing is appealing to manufacturers is that it's another way to get rid of cars without resorting to big rebates. The problem with big rebates was that consumers got used to them and it made it hard to raise the prices. Easier to bury them in lease deals. Doesn't show up as easily as big rebates and doesn't kill resale value as much. Plus the dealers get the cars back on lease return and get another shot at a lease plus they can CPO the used car. In the old days when none of this went on, yeah, lease deals were usually bad and not many got done compared to today. That's why you always have to look at the deal, times change, deals change.