GTL base oil technology

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based on my quick search, sounds like the GTL base oil "idea" was developed ~40 years ago at Shell Technology Center ...
When did it first go into production and/or was patented?

I keep reading in bitog that Exxon Mobil has some GTL base oil
and originally thought that Shell was the only one ... just curious doesn't Shell own the patent or has it expired or is there more than one way to produce GTL base oil so the patent doesn't apply!
 
Originally Posted By: OilUzer
based on my quick search, sounds like the GTL base oil "idea" was developed ~40 years ago at Shell Technology Center ...
When did it first go into production and/or was patented?

I keep reading in bitog that Exxon Mobil has some GTL base oil
and originally thought that Shell was the only one ... just curious doesn't Shell own the patent or has it expired or is there more than one way to produce GTL base oil so the patent doesn't apply!


Several companies hold thousands of GTL, LNG, NGL, patents …

Shell is the one who put all eggs in one basket …

Seems that famous shipping lane was back in the news last week …

There is a modular system being tested near me … rigged up right at the wellhead …
 
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I believe Chevron was way before Shell on this technology and someone else was before Chevron.

As 4WD mentioned, Shell went all in on GTL. The amount of money invested in the Pearl complex in Qatar is staggering. So they have to market it like crazy.
 
Originally Posted By: PimTac
I believe Chevron was way before Shell on this technology and someone else was before Chevron.

As 4WD mentioned, Shell went all in on GTL. The amount of money invested in the Pearl complex in Qatar is staggering. So they have to market it like crazy.


I really wonder how much GTL CASTROL is using in EDGE line up
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That means 0w40 as well
 
Now if Chevron would start using GTL in their Havoline Synthetic that would be something. It might even get ranked on the BBQ index.
 
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
The Fischer-Tropsch method for Gas-to-Liquid was developed by the Germans during WWII.


Yes and the fluids derived from it were considered full synthetic.
 
And the city of Lousiana, Missouri was the site of Fischer-Tropsch plant fully capable of production. This is where Mr Tropsch's assistants were 'hosted' during Operation Paperclip. Liquefying coal.
 
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
The Fischer-Tropsch method for Gas-to-Liquid was developed by the Germans during WWII.



i remember watching Discovery channel Ancient Aliens show claiming Germans had somehow got access to "alien technology" and listing many inventions and prototypes well ahead of that time frame!

Maybe some aliens have a near perfect oil
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If I'm not mistaken the reason why they did it because of their invention of the jet engine.. Amazing what they did at that time. And candidly if they had produced many more tiger tanks the second world war would have lasted a fair amount longer. That tank was far superior to any other tank on the battlefield. The Sherman tanks were nicknamed Ronson's by the Germans. Because they literally burst into fire after being hit. But the massive number of the Sherman and Soviet tanks overwhelmed the small number of tiger tanks. The bombing of their production and manufacturing really helped a lot more than people realized.
 
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Originally Posted By: Trav
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
The Fischer-Tropsch method for Gas-to-Liquid was developed by the Germans during WWII.


Yes and the fluids derived from it were considered full synthetic.


and rightly so.
 
Originally Posted By: bbhero
If I'm not mistaken the reason why they did it because of their invention of the jet engine.. Amazing what they did at that time. And candidly if they had produced many more tiger tanks the second world war would have lasted a fair amount longer. That tank was far superior to any other tank on the battlefield. The Sherman tanks were nicknamed Ronson's by the Germans. Because they literally burst into fire after being hit. But the massive number of the Sherman and Soviet tanks overwhelmed the small number of tiger tanks. The bombing of their production and manufacturing really helped a lot more than people realized.


The Germans developed synthetic oil for 2 reasons.

First the oil they were using on the Winter Russian front was too thick and wouldn't allow their engines (aircraft and vehicle) to start after shutdown.

Second the Germans were losing oil fields to the Allies and they were running out of oil. They had plenty of coal so they experimented with converting it to gas/oil.

The Tiger Tank was awesome. But it was too large and heavy for the roads and bridges. It also sank in the surrounding terrain. It was slow and cumbersome. It was extremely expensive and took a long time to build. And it came too late in the war.
 
Originally Posted By: bbhero
If I'm not mistaken the reason why they did it because of their invention of the jet engine.. Amazing what they did at that time. And candidly if they had produced many more tiger tanks the second world war would have lasted a fair amount longer. That tank was far superior to any other tank on the battlefield. The Sherman tanks were nicknamed Ronson's by the Germans. Because they literally burst into fire after being hit. But the massive number of the Sherman and Soviet tanks overwhelmed the small number of tiger tanks. The bombing of their production and manufacturing really helped a lot more than people realized.

Well, both flavors of the Tiger were also massive tanks for the time that were difficult to produce. The rear of the Tiger I turret was made from one giant slab of steel that was bent into a horseshoe shape...this provided great protection, but you can imagine how long that process took. The Tiger II was so massive that it could barely move and was often just dug in as a sort of pillbox. True to the stereotype, the Germans often overengineered their equipment and their perfection was the enemy of production. Guderian himself advocated for the production of a large number of Panzer IVs, a fairly simple tank with decent firepower by the end of the war, as opposed to smaller numbers of the heavier and more complex Panthers and Tigers. Hitler was obsessed with magical wonder weapons and the heavy and superheavy tanks were an easy sell with him.

The Sherman had a lot of problems, one of which was not being updated quickly enough to keep up with German developments after being considered a wonder tank when it was first used in North Africa, but it was relatively easy to produce and sized to be shipped to Europe in massive numbers. 5 Shermans could usually knock out one Tiger, and most of the Shermans that were damaged could be repaired and returned to the battlefield...the tragedy was the men who died or were crippled because their semi-obsolete tank was lacking in protection and firepower. At least the Army did take note of the "Ronson" problem and the wet ammunition stowage that was introduced later in WWII did save a lot of lives. The issue with burning due to a hit was really due to poor ammo stowage, not the gas engine as was often blamed.

The Russian T34 was often viewed as far superior to the Sherman, and certainly its low height and excellent armor shaping were design features that helped it survive on the battlefield. Strangely enough, when the Russians themselves compared the 85mm cannon used on later T34s to US lend lease tanks, they found it to be sorely lacking compared to the 76mm cannon on later Shermans in terms of armor penetration (the 85mm had better HE ammo). The 76mm is often considered to have been a pea shooter that was of little use against the Panthers and Tigers, so one would think the Russians must have been in real trouble...the truth is that the Soviets used tank destroyers and heavy tanks with 100mm and 122mm cannons against the better German tanks, while the Americans generally knocked them out using planes and also had 90mm cannons that were somewhat effective (the Brits had the 17pdr, their own 76mm with a huge powder charge that the US refused to use because it was so punishing to the crews that fired it).
 
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Originally Posted By: bbhero
If I'm not mistaken the reason why they did it because of their invention of the jet engine.. Amazing what they did at that time. And candidly if they had produced many more tiger tanks the second world war would have lasted a fair amount longer. That tank was far superior to any other tank on the battlefield. The Sherman tanks were nicknamed Ronson's by the Germans. Because they literally burst into fire after being hit. But the massive number of the Sherman and Soviet tanks overwhelmed the small number of tiger tanks. The bombing of their production and manufacturing really helped a lot more than people realized.


I have watched videos about Germany's WWII oil situation . They were evidently in a severe bind for oil . That is the reason for their coal to oil production . Which was more expensive than oil from traditional sources ( had they been available ) .

I think the Tiger tanks had reliability issues . At least the early production tanks . If a tank breaks down , it becomes a pill box . And a target .

I think a related problem was the lack of an appropriate tank recovery vehicle . Other than another Tiger .

And then , the lack of fuel across the whole German Military .

You mention jets . The Brits were also experimenting with Frank Whittle's jet engine . I think our belated efforts were with the Frank Whittle's design , that we received from the Brits . What ever the Japanese were or were not doing with jets were probably done with German technology . Do not think the Russians were doing jets during WWII . Post WWII , the Russians acquired some jet technology from the Brits .

PS I have heard the Germans call the Shermans used by the Brits , " Tommy Cookers " . I read , it was usually the ammo that cough fire on a Sherman . Not usually the gasoline . Same with the Shermans ( Ronsins ) we used .
 
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Yes, the Germans did not invent the jet engine. It was either the British or the French depending on how you look at it.


Have read a fair amount about Frank Whittle and his efforts to get the RAF interested .

And a little about the German efforts .

Did not know the Frogs ( French ) were working on jets , before their house of cards folded ?
 
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