Going without health insurance

[kb01]

I'm just curious if anyone else out there has finally said "enough is enough" and decided to go without health insurance? If so, why and what has been your experience?

I'm reaching a point where I'm convinced that unless a policy is heavily subsidized, it just doesn't make sense to purchase a plan when the going family rate is in the $14,000 - $16,000/year ballpark for a policy with a high deductible in my state.

We just got notice from HR that rates are anticipated to go up significantly and coverage is going to go down for 2012. We also got a stack of 9 or 10 applications that we need to fill out by the end-of-the-day so they can put our group plan out to bid.

As it is, I'm paying $1,000/month for a policy with a high deductible. My wife was pregnant last year and gave birth in January. Between 2010 and 2011, we would have paid $24,000 in health insurance premiums and another $7,500 in out-of-pocket medical expenses; over $30,000 and more than her total cost of hospitalization.

When premiums and deductibles are so high, it seems like it just makes sense to go uninsured and if a medical issue arises to work out payment arrangements with the hospital or fly overseas or go to Mexico for treatment.

Is anyone else in this situation?

 

[GROUCHO MARX]

2011 isn't half over yet. You can predict what your expenses for health care will be for the final 7 months?

 

[kb01]

Originally Posted By: GROUCHO MARX
2011 isn't half over yet. You can predict what your expenses for health care will be for the final 7 months?


I don't really understand it either but that's what our broker wants us to do. Supposedly, it's going to take 3 or 4 months to get final quotes from carriers and another month or two for my employer to decide how much its going to contribute.

We now have 14 applications from our broker and our office is shutting down so we can get them all completed and submitted. My hand is getting sore filling out the exact same (and incredibly personal) information on different forms.

I've never heard of half of the companies, so I imagine we'll getting some really bottom of the barrel carrier. Arghh.

 

[Timothy Ferguson]

If you elect to go without insurance and our wonderful presidents health insurance overhaul kicks in be prepared for a $1500 penalty on your taxes for not having insurance. Nice Huh?

 

[mpvue]

I went a number of years w/o insurance just because I couldn't afford it, or I worked for a job that didn't offer it. for a while I had the kids covered through CHiP (PA kids insurance for low income families) while I didn't have coverage for myself and my wife.
now I do have insurance through my job. currently, we have a plan w/ a high deductible, BUT my employer pays it; the way I understand it, it is cheaper for them to do that then to offer a plan w/ a low deductible.
each year they work real hard to keep our premiums down, I think I'm paying less than $300/mo right now.

 

[kb01]

Originally Posted By: Timothy Ferguson
If you elect to go without insurance and our wonderful presidents health insurance overhaul kicks in be prepared for a $1500 penalty on your taxes for not having insurance. Nice Huh?


Yeah, it sucks but a $1,500 penalty is still better than a $12,000 premium and a $5,000 deductible. Based on what I read at healthcare.gov, it appears that we'll be earning too much to get a tax credit too.

 

[SkyGod]

Gave up insurance years ago.
You will notice they don't send you to unneaded specialists when your paying cash,and the tests are priced lower when they know you don't have insurance.
Most insurance is a total scam in my book.

 

[GROUCHO MARX]

If possible, look for a policy with catastophic coverage and pay as you go for doctor's visits.

My personal opinion is that some insurance is better than none. Believe me when I say I've had experience with it and Murphy's law will apply in all cases.

Like car insurance, health insurance is something that you pray you never have to use.

 

[kb01]

Originally Posted By: mpvue
currently, we have a plan w/ a high deductible, BUT my employer pays it; the way I understand it, it is cheaper for them to do that then to offer a plan w/ a low deductible.
each year they work real hard to keep our premiums down, I think I'm paying less than $300/mo right now.


We have two options -- The high deductible ($5,000) plan for around $1,000/month or the PPO for around (if I recall) $1,300/month. My employer pays an additional $300/month, so the real premiums are $1,300 & $1,600 respectively.

 

[John_K]

Originally Posted By: GROUCHO MARX
2011 isn't half over yet. You can predict what your expenses for health care will be for the final 7 months?


That's just it. My neighbor went without and got unexpectedly real sick. Now we have new neighbors because they lost their house.

John

 

[kb01]

Originally Posted By: GROUCHO MARX
If possible, look for a policy with catastophic coverage and pay as you go for doctor's visits.


That's pretty much what we have and it's unaffordable. I guess we could look for a plan with a $10,000 or a $15,000 deductible but if we had a claim that big, we'd be pretty much SOL.

At least life insurance is comparatively cheap.

 

[kb01]

Originally Posted By: John_K


That's just it. My neighbor went without and got unexpectedly real sick. Now we have new neighbors because they lost their house.

John


That's always a risk. But if you get sick enough that you can't work, how could you even pay your premiums? If that happened to me, my wife couldn't afford them on her salary alone (it would be 40% of her pay).

It would probably be safer to get a divorce, hand over all assets to the wife and deal with bankruptcy on my own.

 

[Letter_K]

Originally Posted By: John_K
Originally Posted By: GROUCHO MARX
2011 isn't half over yet. You can predict what your expenses for health care will be for the final 7 months?


That's just it. My neighbor went without and got unexpectedly real sick. Now we have new neighbors because they lost their house.

John


Yes, you are correct. #1 way to go bankrupt and lose everything is to go without health insurance. Get a part time job that offers it, or factor it into your job as pay and look for another job. Good benefits are pay. There is a guy with a website that documented how he took lesser jobs for health insurance so that his wife would have coverage since she had been involved in a one-person accident as a teen ager and required surgeries throughout her life.

All it takes is a major illness or you /your spouse/or kids to be in a car accident or come down with cancer and rack up hundreds of thousands in bills. Not worth going without. At least look for catastrophic coverage for $5,000 or 10,000 to cover any major issues.

 

[CivicFan]

One thing to note is that the self-pay/uninsured patients are treated, let's call it DIFFERENTLY, than insured patients. The hierarchy of preference is:

uninsured -> high deductible insured -> Medicaid -> Medicare -> commercially insured -> rich people.

So before going uninsured, make sure that you can afford lower quality of care and in case of large expenses you are willing to file for bankruptcy.

 

[JimFitzpatrick]

Health insurance,like all other types of insurance,is a roll of the dice.If you remain healthy during a particular period any insurance premiums you've paid are down the toilet.If you have a major car accident or a heart attack then your premiums are probably well spent.If you have anything to protect....any kind of "net worth"...then you're crazy to go without.The higher your net worth,the crazier you are.

 

[Letter_K]

Originally Posted By: kb01
Originally Posted By: John_K


That's just it. My neighbor went without and got unexpectedly real sick. Now we have new neighbors because they lost their house.

John


That's always a risk. But if you get sick enough that you can't work, how could you even pay your premiums? If that happened to me, my wife couldn't afford them on her salary alone (it would be 40% of her pay).

It would probably be safer to get a divorce, hand over all assets to the wife and deal with bankruptcy on my own.


Doubt that would work. They will come after you for fraud. If you get sick most employers have short-term disability. If your doesn't, you probably need to question the lack of benefits you have. Bad insurance, lack of disability, do you have low pay too? The trifecta.

 

[kb01]

I'm still looking for a new job but they're hard to come by in West Virginia (my job is highly dependent on coal mining). I'm hoping for a job with the Army Corps so I can get government benefits.

The situation sucks. If I go without, I guess we'd have to get a divorce as soon as one of us were diagnosed with something, so we can get some financial protection. I can always go to the VA or do some work under my car when it's up on the scissor jack (I do have good life insurance).

My wife's also looking for a new job (her employer dropped their health plan completely last year).

Our plan year runs through Dec 31, so we still have some time to decide what we're doing and send out more applications on our own. If we have another 19% increase like last year, I just don't think I can stomach the idea of paying close to $1,200/month for insurance with a high deductible.

 

[gathermewool]

I'd be tens of thousands of dollars in debt if I didn't have insurance. I was fit as a fiddle one day, in agonizing pain the next, with no build up. Intestinal adhesion that could have killed me if I was too stubborn to go to the ER when I did. I'm minus a few feet of intestine, but only paid two grand (high deductible) - $1500 of which was already in my HSA.

IMO, if you're single and healthy, and your company offers a high deductible plan, then an HSA is the way to go. Max out (as much as you can afford to, at least) for the first few years, then throttle back after you have enough to cover your high deductible for a couple of years in a row.

 

[kb01]

Originally Posted By: gathermewool
I'd be tens of thousands of dollars in debt if I didn't have insurance. I was fit as a fiddle one day, in agonizing pain the next, with no build up. Intestinal adhesion that could have killed me if I was too stubborn to go to the ER when I did. I'm minus a few feet of intestine, but only paid two grand (high deductible) - $1500 of which was already in my HSA.


How much were the total bills? How much is your health insurance premium?

I'm not claiming that health insurance isn't a good thing, it clearly is. But It just seems like that once premiums start breaking $10,000 or $15,000 a year with deductibles that are over $5,000 the math becomes that much fuzzier.

 

[JimFitzpatrick]

Originally Posted By: SkyGod
Gave up insurance years ago.You will notice they don't send you to unneaded specialists when your paying cash,and the tests are priced lower when they know you don't have insurance.


Having worked in the healthcare biz for 20 years (large,*very* well known hospital) I can assure you that you're mistaken.The reason people are sent to specialists (needed or unneeded) is because of malpractice considerations.Almost everything doctors say or do today has a malpractice bent to it.And as for the price of tests;hospitals can,and often do,make arrangements with "self pay" patients but once a hospital has satisfied its obligations under Federal law (Hill-Burton Act,etc) they're not *required* to give *anyone* a break.