Ford/international fiasco

[The motor guy]

I never understood why international made the 6.4 which imo was worse than the 6.0 powerstroke. I get that it was for emissions, but why not get back on Fords good side and make the 6.4 a rock solid engine? Then they probably wonder why they got the boot from Ford lol

 

[ctechbob]

The relationship had been going downhill for some time by then, so Navistar probably quit caring:

Navistar, Ford settle battle over engines

www.chicagotribune.com

Navistar Re-files Lawsuit Against Ford Motor Company

news.navistar.com

 

[CDX825]

International took a lot of the blame for problems caused by Ford. I can specifically remember hearing stories about International engineers telling Ford that something wouldn't work or wouldn't last and Ford doing it anyway. VGT turbo actuator on the 6.0 comes to mind.

You also have to remember International used theses engines in their own trucks too. They weren't just building them for Ford. From what I understand they were way less problematic in their own trucks as they were in the Ford application. International used different tuning and didn't push the engines as hard. Ford was trying to compete with Dodge and GM so they pushed them harder.

 

[ctechbob]

International took a lot of the blame for problems caused by Ford. I can specifically remember hearing stories about International engineers telling Ford that something wouldn't work or wouldn't last and Ford doing it anyway. VGT turbo actuator on the 6.0 comes to mind.

You also have to remember International used theses engines in their own trucks too. They weren't just building them for Ford. From what I understand they were way less problematic in their own trucks as they were in the Ford application. International used different tuning and didn't push the engines as hard. Ford was trying to compete with Dodge and GM so they pushed them harder.

As I recall, the Navistar applications either didn't require emissions, or they used different emissions (No EGR or something along those lines). Whatever it was, I too remember hearing that the Ford versions of the motors had tons more problems than the same basic motors in the Navistar applications.



Remember watching that a long time ago. Discusses the relationship between Ford and Navistar. I don't have any way to verify the information and Bill just passed not long ago. Seems logical though.



Claims Renault helped with the 6.4 Design.

 

[michaelluscher]

As I recall, the Navistar applications either didn't require emissions, or they used different emissions (No EGR or something along those lines). Whatever it was, I too remember hearing that the Ford versions of the motors had tons more problems than the same basic motors in the Navistar applications.



Remember watching that a long time ago. Discusses the relationship between Ford and Navistar. I don't have any way to verify the information and Bill just passed not long ago. Seems logical though.



Claims Renault helped with the 6.4 Design.

RIP Big Bill
It's 4+ years later, has the situation gotten any better with 6.4 parts quality?

 

[The motor guy]

RIP Big Bill
It's 4+ years later, has the situation gotten any better?

What situation?

 

[michaelluscher]

What situation?

6.4 parts quality

 

[OVERKILL]

International took a lot of the blame for problems caused by Ford. I can specifically remember hearing stories about International engineers telling Ford that something wouldn't work or wouldn't last and Ford doing it anyway. VGT turbo actuator on the 6.0 comes to mind.

The 6.0L had some problems that could maybe be blamed on Ford, like the use of G-05 coolant, which apparently had a tendency to get cooked by the EGR cooler and plug up the oil cooler. There was also the injector programming that led to early IDM and injector failure.

However, the failing of EGR coolers, branch tube adapters, head bolts and I'm sure I'm missing some, were experienced in the VT365 as well.

You also have to remember International used theses engines in their own trucks too. They weren't just building them for Ford. From what I understand they were way less problematic in their own trucks as they were in the Ford application. International used different tuning and didn't push the engines as hard. Ford was trying to compete with Dodge and GM so they pushed them harder.

The Maxxforce 7 was hot garbage in International applications too. They'd break crankshafts and were generally just junk. While the VT365/6.0L PSD could be upgraded to be very reliable (though one could easily argue that this shouldn't be necessary), the MF7 was just a dumpster fire.

Good friend of mine worked at an International dealership and owned a 6.0L PSD at the time (2005 F-250). Did the EGR delete after multiple cooler failures, replaced the IDM when it crapped the bed and had the (Ford) ECM upgrade done, which eliminated the "quiet" operation mode, which had a tendency to kill the injectors. Replaced the branch tube adapter, which had started to leak (known issue), and the truck was on its 2nd set of injectors. Truck worked awesome. Never had any VGT problems after he cleaned up the actuator and VGT assembly and deleted the EGR.

He's now a fleet manager for a large international school bus company and his opinion of the Maxxforce 7 is not good. The old DT466 was bulletproof, as was, generally the IDI 444 and T444E (7.3L PSD).

 

[The motor guy]

The 6.0L had some problems that could maybe be blamed on Ford, like the use of G-05 coolant, which apparently had a tendency to get cooked by the EGR cooler and plug up the oil cooler. There was also the injector programming that led to early IDM and injector failure.

However, the failing of EGR coolers, branch tube adapters, head bolts and I'm sure I'm missing some, were experienced in the VT365 as well.

The Maxxforce 7 was hot garbage in International applications too. They'd break crankshafts and were generally just junk. While the VT365/6.0L PSD could be upgraded to be very reliable (though one could easily argue that this shouldn't be necessary), the MF7 was just a dumpster fire.

Good friend of mine worked at an International dealership and owned a 6.0L PSD at the time (2005 F-250). Did the EGR delete after multiple cooler failures, replaced the IDM when it crapped the bed and had the (Ford) ECM upgrade done, which eliminated the "quiet" operation mode, which had a tendency to kill the injectors. Replaced the branch tube adapter, which had started to leak (known issue), and the truck was on its 2nd set of injectors. Truck worked awesome. Never had any VGT problems after he cleaned up the actuator and VGT assembly and deleted the EGR.

He's now a fleet manager for a large international school bus company and his opinion of the Maxxforce 7 is not good. The old DT466 was bulletproof, as was, generally the IDI 444 and T444E (7.3L PSD).

I was going to mention that. Does international just not make good engines anymore? Or do they just produce a dud every now and again? I'm sure every engine maker has a particular model that isn't as reliable as their other engines.

 

[2013ecof150]

Those 6.4’s can be so hit and miss. You rarely see one on the road today that isn’t deleted. I know a guy who still runs one with 350k on it but it was deleted very early in its life. I believe he runs H&S tuning with very little additional power. Has had very little work done to it. Original injectors and rocker arms.

 

[The motor guy]

Those 6.4’s can be so hit and miss. You rarely see one on the road today that isn’t deleted. I know a guy who still runs one with 350k on it but it was deleted very early in its life. I believe he runs H&S tuning with very little additional power. Has had very little work done to it. Original injectors and rocker arms.

They didn't make them for very many years. You would think the truck body would still be good though.

 

[OVERKILL]

I was going to mention that. Does international just not make good engines anymore? Or do they just produce a dud every now and again? I'm sure every engine maker has a particular model that isn't as reliable as their other engines.

Yeah, it was like somebody took the VT365 and was like "hmmm, I wonder if we could make this worse?".