Guides and Chains in my 01 Grand Marquis ... I told ya so

[SwampSurvivor]

I can't say I wasn't told to do this.

When I bought this engine I had a few people tell me to do the guides / arms / tensioners while it was out. It had a sticker on the valve cover that indicated Ford replaced the parts at some point under warranty and it only had 114K on it. Judging by the copious amounts of RTV on the crank pulley and timing cover/head gasket area , I'm inclined to believe someone has done the timing components before. It also had ratcheting metal body tensioners, which I believe wouldn't be original for this engine ... should be plastic. This engine is now at 125000 miles.

I also didn't want to void the warranty on my salvageyard engine by opening it up or wasting money putting $300 of timing components into an engine with a spun bearing or something.

Once it was in, there was obvious chain rattle on startup. It kept getting worse and worse. Finally got to the point that I was worried about it jumping time on a cold start. The chains usually don't fail but it ended up being cheaper to get the whole cloyes kit with chains.

Just like the original engine to this car, the tensioner arms were worn through. The passenger side was just to the point that the chain was starting to ride on the tensioner piston. The driver's side wasn't far behind.

Of course being a Ford, it's absolutely awful to work on. I was able to get the driver's side valve cover on and off without removing the brake booster. Wipers have to come out first. I have all of the 2v timing tools from the head gasket job on my truck over the winter.

Probably could have got away without changing the chains (and saving a lot of time on valve covers) and just doing the guides/tensioners/arms but was very worried about the cam jumping. Felt much better with the holders securing the cams.

Now with 99% less timing chain rattle! Also looks like the engine started to varnish a bit on the passenger side. Life got in the way a lot this past year and I ended up going 11000 miles on this oil change

I do want to pick up another panther. As frustrating as they are to work on. This will definitely get done on any 2v modular I buy going forward ... seems that the guides / arms wear out.

 

[Lubener]

I have a 2003 GM with a 4.6.. I just do not like the 4.6L engines in the way they are designed and for the very reasons of your problem. I would take an old fashioned 5.0L anyday.

 

[SwampSurvivor]

I have a 2003 GM with a 4.6.. I just do not like the 4.6L engines in the way they are designed and for the very reasons of your problem. I would take an old fashioned 5.0L anyday.

I don't mind the engines so much as their fitment issues. They simply fit do not fit in this car. I could have easily done this in an afternoon if it wasn't for wrestling the valve covers out and in.

 

[D60]

I have a 2003 GM with a 4.6.. I just do not like the 4.6L engines in the way they are designed and for the very reasons of your problem. I would take an old fashioned 5.0L anyday.

4.8 maybe?

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

4.8 maybe?

GM = Grand Marquis….

 

[D60]

Whachusay? '01 shoulda been metal ratcheting tensioners, at least in trucks. Maybe the cars were fancier? Plastic oil-pressure-only debuted with the (Top 10 Worst Automotive Engineering Decisions of All Time) 3V in 2004

 

[D60]

GM = Grand Marquis….

You're confused, GM doesn't make a GM

KIDDING! Thank you for the correction!

 

[D60]

I don't mind the engines so much as their fitment issues. They simply fit do not fit in this car. I could have easily done this in an afternoon if it wasn't for wrestling the valve covers out and in.

The modular motors are just relatively huge for what they are. They really only make sense in a truck engine bay, and even trying to pull them from trucks can be a dance to clear the cowl and front clip.

People wonder why LS V8s are swapped into everything....size is one reason

 

[SwampSurvivor]

The modular motors are just relatively huge for what they are. They really only make sense in a truck engine bay, and even trying to pull them from trucks can be a dance to clear the cowl and front clip.

People wonder why LS V8s are swapped into everything....size is one reason

I had to do a head gasket on my 2001 F-350 with the 5.4 over the winter. HUGE engine bay ... would have been nice if the engine was there. Instead, it's under the dash like a fan. Lots of fun getting a cylinder head on and off of that when there's zero room.

 

[michaelluscher]

Looks like a fine job
But after watching the training video for this job, it's well above my pay grade

 

[Nick1994]

It seems these Ford Modular engines are a real pile. They just have a cult-like following.

 

[SwampSurvivor]

It seems these Ford Modular engines are a real pile. They just have a cult-like following.

The 2v engines definitely have a cult following ... even some ford haters I know think they're great. They can rack up some serious mileage. They'll idle all day, do start/stop traffic all day ... Just don't short trip them, that kills the timing stuff apparently.

But they're physically huge for what they are and barely fit where they are installed.

Looks like a fine job
But after watching the training video for this job, it's well above my pay grade

My pay grade isn't high enough to pay someone else to do it

 

[nwjones18]

I know of a lot of 4.6's that are very old with very high miles and haven't ever had this issue.. Generally they have been maintained though. Dad still has a 93 crown vic, but its only got 150k miles on it. Never had chains.

 

[4WD]

It seems these Ford Modular engines are a real pile. They just have a cult-like following.

It seems like you would not know much about them …
I had several and none saw a dealership …

 

[D60]

I know of a lot of 4.6's that are very old with very high miles and haven't ever had this issue.. Generally they have been maintained though. Dad still has a 93 crown vic, but its only got 150k miles on it. Never had chains.

You wouldn't necessarily know unless you drop the pan or pull the timing cover. They don't always make much noise.

Also '93 was Windsor era, not modular

 

[2EHA]

Also '93 was Windsor era, not modular

modular was around in 92

5l and 5.8 were both big turds in terms of longevity

 

[Kruse]

My ‘97 F250 5.4 2V has 300K and nothing has been replaced. That includes PS pump, water pump, tranny and master cylinder. Alternator was original and I replaced it a few months ago. Just because. Whatever.
OP, you said you put in Cloyes. What is the country of origin?

 

[Nick1994]

It seems like you would not know much about them …
I had several and none saw a dealership …

The OP’er has had countless problems with his. Seems he’s pulled the engines in his truck and Grand Marquis several times to either replace them or do severe engine work.

 

[SwampSurvivor]

The OP’er has had countless problems with his. Seems he’s pulled the engines in his truck and Grand Marquis several times to either replace them or do severe engine work.

The original engine in the truck ate a bunch of washers. I believe dealer sabotage, but not too many engines are going to eat washers and live through it. Given the condition of the truck I opted for a 215000 mile junkyard engine. Unfortunately I didn't open it up to see the condition, but it had a hard life. The only reason it was opened up earlier this year was because the head corroded from all the road salt and caused an oil leak. I might have cooked it by not tightening a radiator hose but I can't really blame the engine for that. I can't blame the engine for a previous owner never changing the oil.

The marquis had something going on with it's original engine. Low compression on cylinder 5 but never really found what was wrong with it.

I do think Ford powertrain engineers really didn't do a great job matching axle ratios to these engines. Especially the 2valve. They need to rev to make power and get decent economy. In the panthers, 3.27 should have been the standard ratio. For the trucks, 4.10 minimum and the HD trucks should have been 4.56 with 4.88 optional for the 5.4s. There's no reason my grand marquis needs to go 53MPH in 1st gear.

The 2 valve 5.4 would do great if they had left the factory with better gearing. The cam profile, long stroke, small valves makes an engine that pulls great from 2100 RPM all the way to the rev limiter ... but factory gearing and trans programming has them operating below that way too often.

My ‘97 F250 5.4 2V has 300K and nothing has been replaced. That includes PS pump, water pump, tranny and master cylinder. Alternator was original and I replaced it a few months ago. Just because. Whatever.
OP, you said you put in Cloyes. What is the country of origin?

The timing chains / guides / tensioners were still in good shape at ~240K when I did them. If I had not ordered them, I probably would have put the originals back in to be honest. I'm sure the original guides and arms had more mileage left in them than the body of the truck does . The right side cylinder head corroded causing it to leak a lot of oil so I had to pull the thing apart.

I'll check on the country of origin when I get home. I should have the box somewhere.

 

[OVERKILL]

It seems these Ford Modular engines are a real pile. They just have a cult-like following.

The tensioners are just a luck of the draw depending on the age of the mould. We took two 2V 5.4's to over 200,000 miles on the original tensioners (my parents Expedition is still going with 206,000 miles, it's definitely going to out-live the vehicle, as is the 4R100 that's mated to it). Neither engine ever had as much as a valve cover removed, though ours launched a plug and got a lock-n-stitch insert on #8.

They are big, low powered for their footprint, and thirsty, but, generally, they are extremely reliable and will take an incredible amount of abuse. We used ours HARD and it never complained, just consumed lots of fuel. It may still be going, which means it's probably got 500,000km on it now (310,000 miles) since the guy had a hell of a daily commute with it.

My friend with an '03 F-150 with the 4.6L, same issue as the OP, relatively low mileage, tensioners failed. His was actually worse, because his jumped time (the OP's fear).

There are a lot of insanely high mileage modulars out there that didn't take anything other than oil changes to get there, and that's what their "following" is based on (look at the million mile Ford van as an example).