EVs and our future

[alarmguy]

Profit from operations is incredible leverage that allows companies to grow, invest, undercut their competition and more.
The fact that Tesla had more profit than the mighty Toyota is simply unheard of in business.

Does any other company make any profit on their EV business unit? I don't think so. Yet Tesla bests Toyota on a real dollar basis.

Yes Tesla will have a fighting chance in the USA come January 1 because once again the US taxpayer will be subsidizing American built EVs so Americans will not be able to buy cheap China built EVs.
But all I’m saying is the median household income only cares about price and they will be very much competition in the lower price ranges. Do I dare say what has happened with LED TVs will happen one day with EVs?

Got me! But might put lesser respected (to some) companies like GM back on the map!

Just having fun here and discussing I’m not an investor though I kind of regret not jumping in on GM before it went up 15% in the last month but I’m not a short-term investor so I’m sure I’ll be back down sooner or later if it’s not already…
Sometimes I wish he would just keep quiet like a past President I knew
I have nothing against him except the god like image driving the price of a stock.

Tesla Stock Succumbed to Elon Musk’s Latest Tweets. Investors Need to Watch Out. — Barron's

Tesla stock is sliding this week and has fallen below a key level that suggests more downside could be ahead. Are Elon Musk and his Twitter acquisition the problem? Tesla stock (ticker: TSLA) was already coming off a brutal Friday, and looked like it might be ready to bounce after opening higher...

stocks.apple.com

 

[JeffKeryk]

Yes Tesla will have a fighting chance in the USA come January 1 because once again the US taxpayer will be subsidizing American built EVs so Americans will not be able to buy cheap China built EVs.
But all I’m saying is the median household income only cares about price and they will be very much competition in the lower price ranges. Do I dare say what has happened with LED TVs will happen one day with EVs?

Got me! But might put lesser respected (to some) companies like GM back on the map!

Just having fun here and discussing I’m not an investor though I kind of regret not jumping in on GM before it went up 15% in the last month but I’m not a short-term investor so I’m sure I’ll be back down sooner or later if it’s not already…
Sometimes I wish he would just keep quiet like a past President I knew
I have nothing against him except the god like image driving the price of a stock.

Tesla Stock Succumbed to Elon Musk’s Latest Tweets. Investors Need to Watch Out. — Barron's

Tesla stock is sliding this week and has fallen below a key level that suggests more downside could be ahead. Are Elon Musk and his Twitter acquisition the problem? Tesla stock (ticker: TSLA) was already coming off a brutal Friday, and looked like it might be ready to bounce after opening higher...

stocks.apple.com

I am against EV subsidies, as is Musk. And loans to companies like GM who pay them back with other gvt loans.
I may be wrong, but the upcoming subsidies are for more then American built EVs. Is the Mustang Mach-e built in America? No. Does it qualify for the tax credit? Yes.

And there is FAR more tax payer money going to ICE vehicles via direct support of the oil producing nations than has ever been given to EVs.

 

[alarmguy]

I am against EV subsidies, as is Musk. And loans to companies like GM who pay them back with other gvt loans.
I may be wrong, but the upcoming subsidies are for more then American built EVs. Is the Mustang Mach-e built in America? No. Does it qualify for the tax credit? Yes.

And there is FAR more tax payer money going to ICE vehicles via direct support of the oil producing nations than has ever been given to EVs.

I think you need to go over the EV subsidies.
Also I never remember a period in time when the US government offered me other people’s tax money to the tune of $7,500 to buy a $50,000+ car over a $32,000 car.

Bringing up the past and bringing up oil producing countries starts getting into a political discussion and is completely irrelevant to the subject of $7500 tax rebates.
One could go on forever about the political aspects which is not allowed here and let’s not get into the lithium producing countries none of which are in this country oh and about mother Earth another discussion not allowed in here but it takes up to 500 tons of earth to be mined for 1 ton of lithium.
Let’s not completely leave out the equation of where the energy is coming from to charge the batteries.

As you know but others may not I am not against electric vehicles. Certain aspects yes but the vehicles itself no.

 

[JeffKeryk]

I think you need to go over the EV subsidies.
Also I never remember a period in time when the US government offered me other people’s tax money to the tune of $7,500 to buy a $50,000+ car over a $32,000 car.

What am I missing about subsidies? I am, in general against them, as is CEO Musk. I think you are as well.
You posted "American built EVs" and I am asking if that is true. I don't think it is; perhaps I am wrong? The Mach-E is one such vehicle in question.
I am also against the sponsored charging stations. Tesla built and continues to build theirs, right?

By the way, these topics are all "p".

 

[wpod]

We will see haw the sheeple are herded. This is not an anti EV but other than them being shoved down our throats I hope the market will solve the problems and the power generation and distribution and the long term costs. The Evs are still in their infancy and as I have posted before an EV would do well in many applications but why? This is virtue signaling or some people believe they are going to save the planet.

I know that EVs are in our future.
I do not object to their introduction into our choice as a mode of power for mass produced vehicles.

What I DO object to is the Federal government, or any governmental "authority", mandating us to move toward that as our only option.

One important aspect of EVs that is overlooked is safety in flooding. Firefighters have received training on fighting EV fires, because flooding them with water results in shorts and other risks. The Hurricane experience of actual flooding, and fires that happened as a result, was a surprise to many.

Please read this recent news article as it will be repeated more and more as the EV is mass produced;

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/w...ously-catch-fire-florida-after-hurricane[/URL

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[alarmguy]

What am I missing about subsidies? I am, in general against them, as is CEO Musk. I think you are as well.
You posted "American built EVs" and I am asking if that is true. I don't think it is; perhaps I am wrong? The Mach-E is one such vehicle in question.
I am also against the sponsored charging stations. Tesla built and continues to build theirs, right?

By the way, these topics are all "p".

Oh, I only said that because you said "I might be wrong" I think you are right but try to not confirm something if I am not sure.
I think you maybe correct about the Mustang, assembled in Mexico with parts from the USA and Canada and also built in China after a brief look.

I am against subsides of all kinds in every aspect of life. But I suspect it might be reasonable for a China response and would not be at all surprised for retaliation. But what do I know, doesn't matter much.

As much as Tesla is against subsides I m sure he doesn't want a China reaction even though his cars are built there and shouldn't affect him if it took place but who knows. One thing for sure though, when those USA sales numbers come through and the high profit margins, Tesla doesn't complain as they wouldn't do as good without the subsidies.
Don't get me wrong, I am not picking on Tesla, if this is what the voters want, fine, get in there and get all you can, I would too, and do take advantage of any silly thing the voters vote for.
I firmly believe the purchaser doesn't get a full return whenever a subsidy is offered. I saw it in the solar industry here, the rebates offered, much of it sold to customers with inflated prices making them look like they were getting a good deal but at the same time, these dealers and the salespeople are making way more money in profit then without subsides to make things look like a great deal.

 

[Snagglefoot]

I’ve always felt that EV subsidies are not actually paid for by tax payers. It’s just added to the accumulated deficit, and will remain there forever.

 

[alarmguy]

I’ve always felt that EV subsidies are not actually paid for by tax payers. It’s just added to the accumulated deficit, and will remain there forever.

Much worse, you are correct, they aren’t paid for, the cost is far more expensive than let’s say the newest tax credit of $7,500 is going to cost since it’s never paid for the taxpayers pay interest on it.
Thus year alone the average household paid $2600 in interest on the national debt and with rising rates the cost goes higher.

I posted links to this information but decided to delete them because I could see how that discussion can turn political. If anyone is interested just do some searches on the “cost of the national debt to the American family.”

 

[UncleDave]

Much worse, you are correct, they aren’t paid for, the cost is far more expensive than let’s say the newest tax credit of $7,500 is going to cost since it’s never paid for the taxpayers pay interest on it.
Thus year alone the average household paid $2600 in interest on the national debt and with rising rates the cost goes higher.

I posted links to this information but decided to delete them because I could see how that discussion can turn political. If anyone is interested just do some searches on the “cost of the national debt to the American family.”

Let make sure we prioritize the biggest offenders.

Let's get half ton trucks off section 179.

 

[alarmguy]

Let make sure we prioritize the biggest offenders.

Let's get half ton trucks off section 179.

Lots of things you can do to get off the debt rolls. Maybe stop adding and spending more money that you don't have might be a good place to start?

 

[UncleDave]

Lots of things you can do to get off the debt rolls. Maybe stop adding and spending more money that you don't have might be a good place to start?

Dont disagree with that.
Diff subject and thread though.

 

[alarmguy]

Dont disagree with that.
Diff subject and thread though.

Agree and we know that thread would get shut down right away!

 

[Rmay635703]

Let make sure we prioritize the biggest offenders.

Let's get half ton trucks off section 179.

The easiest solution to that is to state the truck has to be a long box, bench seat(s), 2wd with a manual or “full hybrid / electric “ configuration to qualify.

Ditto the “farm truck” loophole in this state.

That would dump tons of “lifestyle “ trucks mascarading in that category.

Leaving the category to those who really need it enough to operate more efficient 2wd manual vehicles or hybrid/EV.

 

[JeffKeryk]

The easiest solution to that is to state the truck has to be a long box, bench seat(s), 2wd with a manual or “full hybrid / electric “ configuration to qualify.

Ditto the “farm truck” loophole in this state.

That would dump tons of “lifestyle “ trucks mascarading in that category.

Leaving the category to those who really need it enough to operate more efficient 2wd manual vehicles or hybrid/EV.

Or to drop the subsidy altogether.

 

[Cujet]

The easiest solution to that is to state the truck has to be a long box, bench seat(s), 2wd with a manual or “full hybrid / electric “ configuration to qualify.
Ditto the “farm truck” loophole in this state.
That would dump tons of “lifestyle “ trucks mascarading in that category.
Leaving the category to those who really need it enough to operate more efficient 2wd manual vehicles or hybrid/EV.

Of course, my 3 F150's are not "lifestyle" truck, but hard working beasts!

 

[Rmay635703]

Or to drop the subsidy altogether.

You always leave folks an out.

 

[JeffKeryk]

You always leave folks an out.

From a high level, you are either in favor of subsidies or you are not. In general, I am not.
Kinda funny how people badrap EV subsidies but not other subsidies?
If there was gonna be a subsidy, at least the EV should be made by American workers in an American city.
That excludes the Mustang Mach-E.

 

[Rmay635703]

From a high level, you are either in favor of subsidies or you are not. In general, I am not.
Kinda funny how people badrap EV subsidies but not other subsidies?
If there was gonna be a subsidy, at least the EV should be made by American workers in an American city.
That excludes the Mustang Mach-E.

I have no real issue with EV subsidies, especially if they have useful limits that drive the behaviors/ audience you want.

Subsidies with benchmarks and strings.

 

[Cujet]

I have no real issue with EV subsidies, especially if they have useful limits that drive the behaviors/ audience you want.

Subsidies with benchmarks and strings.

I work a large number of hours, and pay a lot more than most in tax. Furthermore NONE of my travel is reimbursed and is no longer tax deductible in any way shape or form. Just how many more hours should I work to pay for these EV "subsidies" ??? Because, like it or not, these "benefits" come from me, and quite simply, I'm old, tired and worn out. I've had enough.

 

[wpod]

Ever own one? The maintenance schedule and costs are crazy!

They will hurt you more than a Motorcycle will .