Ethics of cobalt mining for electric cars

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: SHOZ
That says a lot of nothing. Motor efficiency? Battery voltage and capacity?


Efficiency is already in the 90s...chump change.

Capacity is capacity...shifting 70KWh in a minute requires POWER flow regardless of voltage.

Are you sure that you're in the industry for real ?

Or is it "look over there, a bunny" ?

 

[SHOZ]

I would guess that just maybe they will also develop such a system to do what they need if it were to be a viable battery. Then again it doesn't have to charge back in one minute to be a tremendous improvement over what there is now.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: SHOZ
I would guess that just maybe they will also develop such a system to do what they need if it were to be a viable battery. Then again it doesn't have to charge back in one minute to be a tremendous improvement over what there is now.

But really, filling up my gas tank in about 3 minutes for a 400-mile range is a pretty good deal too. I still don't see why that is so bad, what with fuel economy and emissions improvements over the past decade or so.

 

[SHOZ]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
I would guess that just maybe they will also develop such a system to do what they need if it were to be a viable battery. Then again it doesn't have to charge back in one minute to be a tremendous improvement over what there is now.

But really, filling up my gas tank in about 3 minutes for a 400-mile range is a pretty good deal too. I still don't see why that is so bad, what with fuel economy and emissions improvements over the past decade or so.
Nothing wrong with that.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: SHOZ
Then again it doesn't have to charge back in one minute to be a tremendous improvement over what there is now.


Hands up everyone who brought the "one minute" charge" to this thread....

yes that's you.


Originally Posted By: SHOZ
I would guess that just maybe they will also develop such a system to do what they need if it were to be a viable battery.


That's exactly why I asked YOU, a professional in the power industry to give some of your extensive insight into exactly HOW they wold shift 50-100KWh of electricity into these batteries in a minute (YOUR minute remember).

I've only been I Generation, and working with HV drives for a quarter century, and am one of the "whip buggy brigade" that you keep referring to.

I was merely requesting your insight into how an average car driver of the future could move energy at 1-5MW transfer rates.

And I'm STILL waiting for you to back ANYTHING that you've brought to the thread with that insight.

 

[SHOZ]

I regret to tell that I am not an innovating expert on the latest and greatest technology shannon.

Maybe if you can produce the patent we can find out.

 

[Shannow]

No, SHIZ, but as a well credentialed power industry professional (your words), you can surely give us some insight in how to move energy volume through time...power flow to support the glam of the claims that you brought to the table.

With the current state of technology, how would YOU, the power professional, move 70KWh into a battery in a minute ?

I think that the claims of Fisker (who are pretty good at burning pools of Lithium) are advertising fluff to get deeper into their investor's pockets personally.

 

[SHOZ]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
No, SHIZ, but as a well credentialed power industry professional (your words), you can surely give us some insight in how to move energy volume through time...power flow to support the glam of the claims that you brought to the table.

With the current state of technology, how would YOU, the power professional, move 70KWh into a battery in a minute ?

I think that the claims of Fisker (who are pretty good at burning pools of Lithium) are advertising fluff to get deeper into their investor's pockets personally.
What words did I say?

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: SHOZ
What words did I say?


You've claimed to have been in the power industry ?

Just asking how YOU would see 4MW flowing through a hand held consumer charging station.

 

[KrisZ]

So you would need a forklift to hook up the charging cable, big deal. It's a small price to pay for the electrified utopia. Lol

 

[SHOZ]

yes I spent 30 years making industrial batteries. Been out 20 years and spent the last 15 working years in the food industry.

If you have enough copper it can carry the juice.

What makes you think it will be a hand held consumer charging situation?

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: SHOZ
yes I spent 30 years making industrial batteries. Been out 20 years and spent the last 15 working years in the food industry.

If you have enough copper it can carry the juice.

What makes you think it will be a hand held consumer charging situation?


Well if it's for electric vehicles, and the idea is a 500 mile range with a minute "recharge"...then what else would be suggested ?

Or like I said earlier, do you have to reverse into a docking station.

"Battery tankers" rolling along the highway refueling like bombers and fighter planes ?

 

[kschachn]

Never mind. Not worth the effort.

 

[SHOZ]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
yes I spent 30 years making industrial batteries. Been out 20 years and spent the last 15 working years in the food industry.

If you have enough copper it can carry the juice.

What makes you think it will be a hand held consumer charging situation?


Well if it's for electric vehicles, and the idea is a 500 mile range with a minute "recharge"...then what else would be suggested ?

Or like I said earlier, do you have to reverse into a docking station.

"Battery tankers" rolling along the highway refueling like bombers and fighter planes ?

Just a we go to a gas station to get gas I would guess they would go to an electrical charging station. Maybe get hooked up like mid air refueling jet fighters.

I would expect it to be completely hands off for a fast charge.

 

[Shannow]

4MW would make for a pretty nifty plug and play eh ?

Lots of fireworks with a dirty contact or a short to earth.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
4MW would make for a pretty nifty plug and play eh ?

Lots of fireworks with a dirty contact or a short to earth.


And how would you hold such massive amounts of power at a station when market penetration gets significant? There's mention of a Tesla OTR truck in another thread, to charge something that size (which will have a significantly larger storage medium, be it battery or otherwise) will require massive amounts of localized storage or you'll have small nuclear reactors with direct connection ability that you roll up to

It's one thing when this stuff is in the novelty/elitist phase that it sits at now. When we start replacing gasoline and diesel vehicles in sufficient volume, the electricity volume required will increase dramatically, which will in turn require massive upgrades in transmission infrastructure and methods of storing significant quantities of it; vast amounts of rapid discharge storage arrays for timely "fuelling".

Think of your present OTR truck stop and the amount of diesel they go through in a 24hr period, then think of supplying an electrical equivalent to that and provide sufficiently rapid "fuelling". It isn't just the connector and transmission interface that's problematic there to enable that, it is also the required infrastructure to support it.

The cost, assuming it is all doable, of all this will also be incredible. It's one thing plopping "SuperCharger" stations strategically, leveraging existing infrastructure for a small market. It is quite another when this stuff becomes mainstream.

 

[SHOZ]

7 nukes withing 150 miles of me. Plenty of power to go around. Much of it is exported out of state.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: SHOZ
7 nukes withing 150 miles of me. Plenty of power to go around. Much of it is exported out of state.


I have the world's largest nuclear facility (Bruce Nuclear, 8 reactors, 48TWh a year) about 3hrs from me, Darlington (24TWh) and Pickering (~20TWh) within less than an hour. That's a total of 18 nuclear reactors. They provide 60% of Ontario's power. There would still need to be massive upgrades, likely including the expansion of the 4-unit site and additional transmission infrastructure from the facility to all endpoints to enable capacity for the demand imposed by even moderate market penetration of EV's. At that point all the wind and solar in the entire province wouldn't even appear as a blip on the radar in terms of significant contributing capacity, 85% of which is presently met by Nuclear and Hydro-electric.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: SHOZ
7 nukes withing 150 miles of me. Plenty of power to go around. Much of it is exported out of state.


BTW, it would seem your generating capacity (30,400MW) is similar to Ontario's (36,853MW).
Illinois data from here:
https://www.isgs.illinois.edu/outreach/geology-resources/illinois-energy-production-and-consumption

You guys have 12,049MW of Nuclear, we have 13,009MW. So relatively similar there as well. Ergo, my Ontario concerns would transpose well to your state.

 

[SHOZ]

Yes it would but the demand will never be there to replace gas engine en mass for personal transportation. Maybe farm equipment and delivery trucks.

I see Tesla just release detail of their semi truck to replace the typical 18 wheeler. 500 mile range,30 minute recharge,out performs diesel in economy and torque.