Ethics of cobalt mining for electric cars

[CR94]

Originally Posted By: Nederlander75
Originally Posted By: Shannow
...and tipping sump oil on the ground...

That’s a little over the top. At least dig a hole and cover it up.
Wouldn't that be worse?

 

[SHOZ]

Solid state Li ion batteries. 2,5 times the current energy density and recharge in minutes.

Fisker has filed patents for solid-state batteries

https://www.autoblog.com/2017/11/13/fisker-has-filed-patents-for-solid-state-batteries/

The reason all these companies are working on developing solid-state batteries is because they present a whole host of advantages over what you'll find in today's phones, computers and cars. The two big ones are greater energy density and rapid charging times. Fisker claims the batteries it's developing have an energy density 2.5 times that of current batteries, and they should be capable of providing a 500-mile driving range. The company also says the batteries could be recharged in as little as a minute. Both claims are similar to past claims from others, including Sakti3. Other benefits include lower estimated cost than conventional lithium-ion batteries as well as very little risk of fires or explosions.

 

[SHOZ]

Is This The Tesla Killer?


Here’s what Dr. Fabio Albano, VP of battery systems at Fisker Inc. claims:

This breakthrough marks the beginning of a new era in solid-state materials and manufacturing technologies.


We are addressing all of the hurdles that solid-state batteries have encountered on the path to commercialization, such as performance in cold temperatures; the use of low cost and scalable manufacturing methods; and the ability to form bulk solid-state electrodes with significant thickness and high active material loadings. We are excited to build on this foundation and move the needle in energy storage.

Here’s a representation of the 3-dimensional electrodes:

 

[OVERKILL]

StevieC made a thread about this in the General and Off Topic section already, FWIW.

 

[SHOZ]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
StevieC made a thread about this in the General and Off Topic section already, FWIW.
that thread was hijacked by the buggy whip crowd.......

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: SHOZ
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
StevieC made a thread about this in the General and Off Topic section already, FWIW.
that thread was hijacked by the buggy whip crowd.......


LOL! I think it was more about the viability of the cited charge time

Will be interesting if anything actually materializes out of this though, I'm watching it with keen interest. Local utility rolls out near-use SMR's to charge them

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: SHOZ
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
StevieC made a thread about this in the General and Off Topic section already, FWIW.
that thread was hijacked by the buggy whip crowd.......


You are (allegedly) of electrical background in the power industry...

Please explain how YOU, personally think these things can be charged in the timeframes claimed...cable sizes, heat and EM will suffice...Battery recovery time before allowing discharge ?

Suicide plugged solar installations, and tipping used oil on the ground and calling it Asphalt, I'm sure that you're technically all over this.

 

[SHOZ]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
StevieC made a thread about this in the General and Off Topic section already, FWIW.
that thread was hijacked by the buggy whip crowd.......


You are (allegedly) of electrical background in the power industry...

Please explain how YOU, personally think these things can be charged in the timeframes claimed...cable sizes, heat and EM will suffice...Battery recovery time before allowing discharge ?

Suicide plugged solar installations, and tipping used oil on the ground and calling it Asphalt, I'm sure that you're technically all over this.


I have personally handled 1500 amp DC charge and discharged rates (Trident sub battery production), hooked them up and all. How fast can you charge a capacitor? This is basically what is happening if you can believe the technology. Solid State batteries do exist.

other than that you carry a lot of baggage around......

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: SHOZ
I have personally handled 1500 amp DC charge and discharged rates (Trident sub battery production), hooked them up and all. How fast can you charge a capacitor? This is basically what is happening if you can believe the technology. Solid State batteries do exist.


cool, now can you tell the audience the size of the extension lead that you used, in comparison to say....oh, the power cord of a tesla charging handle...

 

[SHOZ]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
I have personally handled 1500 amp DC charge and discharged rates (Trident sub battery production), hooked them up and all. How fast can you charge a capacitor? This is basically what is happening if you can believe the technology. Solid State batteries do exist.


cool, now can you tell the audience the size of the extension lead that you used, in comparison to say....oh, the power cord of a tesla charging handle...
Sure, we used three 350MCM cables per terminal. But we are not talking about a charge at home Tesla charging set up.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: SHOZ
Sure, we used three 350MCM cables per terminal. But we are not talking about a charge at home Tesla charging set up.


So these batteries that charge up in minutes, using 1,000s amps AREN'T going to be charged by the user, using charging leads at charging stations ?

What are they going to have a docking port that you have to reverse into ?

That's efficient...

 

[SHOZ]

Well sure they will have the correct setup at the charging station.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: SHOZ
Well sure they will have the correct setup at the charging station.


OK, so get back to what I was asking...

Using your best engineering guess, how BIG would a cord/charger handle assembly be to put 70KWh into a battery in a minute be ?

How hot would the battery get, and how long would it have to cool before you used it.

It's only 4.2MW...

 

[SHOZ]

4.2MW????

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: SHOZ
4.2MW????


Aren't you the electrical guy ?

70KWh...70,000*3600 = 252,000,000 Joules.

To deliver 252,000,000 Joules in a minute 252,000,000/60 = 4.2MW...

Do it in 2 minutes and it's only 2.1MW.

Make it 4, and it's still a MW.

Savvy ?

 

[SHOZ]

Have you the specs on the battery? It has not even been made yet.

Nothing but straw man questions...... more baggage you carry.

 

[Shannow]

Per the other thread...500 miles, charge in minutes...

 

[SHOZ]

That says a lot of nothing. Motor efficiency? Battery voltage and capacity?

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: SHOZ
That says a lot of nothing. Motor efficiency? Battery voltage and capacity?


It is roughly based on the Tesla Model S and the Chevy Volt in terms of miles per kWh. The # of kWh you'd need to reach 500 miles, using the Volt's efficiency, is 175 IIRC (from the other thread).

 

[PandaBear]

I was in a new hire orientation at my last job with a battery researcher. She said currently the reason our battery is designed a certain way has to do with manufacturing scale. If we run out of certain material we can always design a different way to make it work. Even if we run out of lithium we can easily research for sodium based chemistry, and you know we won't run out of sodium.

Rare earth material is not really rare, just hard to extract. If it is expensive enough people will be scraping and recycling them like the precious metal cat in our cars, or if it is poisonous enough we'll mandate recycling like lead battery.