Elon Musk is running out of rich people...

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Originally Posted by emg
Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
I am getting solar panels installed. The sun will power the house and the Tesla.


How will the solar panels power your house at night?

Quote
Renewable energy sources (wind and solar) are fueling job growth.


Jobs are a cost, not a benefit. 'Renewable energy' produces job growth because it's so inefficient.

Oh, and last I heard, Germany was giving its 'renewable' electricity to other countries for free, because it's far too unreliable and was destabilizing their grid. What happens when there's no country left with a stable grid to dump it on?


Solar generates electricity during the day and sends it to the grid.
The meter runs backward...
I use that when there is no sunlight.
I get a quarterly rebate check from PG&E for unused power.
Why do they do that? Because you are giving them free power; they return a portion of that.
The alternative is on premises batteries; I chose to not go that route.

Renewable energy creates jobs due to demand; that demand is based on value to the customer.
 
Originally Posted by Sunnyinhollister


You are saying that it takes 1.6 gallons of fuel oil to generate 10KWH? I did not know that.



Fuel burning powerplants are, on average, no more efficient than the current Prius engine. When adding up the losses from powerplant to grid to charger to the EV's battery from battery to motor to wheel, 1.6 gallons fuel oil gives 40 miles EV range.

That's not the same as 1.6 gal to make 10Kwh.

Let's look at this with accuracy: 1.0 gal diesel contains 40.7 Kwh energy. Knowing that 100% efficiency is the stuff of dreams, we can try various efficiencies and see what the work output is. I'm not going into the heat rate, as I feel it's unnecessary for today's discussion.

1 gal diesel = 40.7 x 38% = 15.46 Kwh. (about the US average fuel burning powerplant efficiency)

1 gal diesel = 40.7 x 33% = 13.43 Kwh (about the worldwide fuel burning powerplant efficiency)

Again for EV's we must add in grid, charger, battery, motor losses and the numbers become a lot less favorable than we are led to believe.

It's good to note that the larger John Deere turbodiesel semi-portable generators can make 14Kwh from a gallon of diesel.
 
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[Linked Image]


If done with a larger turbodiesel genset, the energy consumption would be competitive.
 
Originally Posted by Cujet
[Linked Image]


If done with a larger turbodiesel genset, the energy consumption would be competitive.




That is one of the ugliest cars I've seen. It gives the AMC Gremlin a run for the top spot in that category.
 
Originally Posted by 4WD
We can sell back to the grid … but don't have this


Excellent point. Solar does not work everywhere. A combination of wind and solar renewables can at least offset the use of consumables.
And who knows what the future holds?
A few years ago solar was so costly; that has changed ans will continue to do so.

Love the chart... Come to Los Gatos some time and take a spin in the Model 3. Faaast...
Silicon Valley is full of ranch style houses that all had lotsa green grass.
We ain't go no water (high desert) but we sure can water those beautiful lawns.
I finally switched to bark. No more darn mowing!

The original post has a comment about Elon Musk.
The man is an engineer, a gambler and a visionary.

I suggest watching his interview on 60 Minutes of about a month ago.
 
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Most wind farms start NW of here … I'm only 40 miles from The Gulf of Hurricanes …
Some things got strange a bit too fast … in 2015 I was shopping a new HVAC and expected to see solid tax incentives for highest SEER ratings … nope, but plenty of help for solar, wind, and hydrogen … I wound up with "better" … not best since it sounded like insulated gate bipolar transistor stuff (lightning kills complicated controls around here)

No doubt EV's will get better … we have a Fusion Hybrid in the fleet and it's been a good car …
 
Originally Posted by JeffKeryk

Renewable energy sources (wind and solar) are fueling job growth.
Technology shifts will continue to change and improve the world.
We need to think in 50 year plans instead of being short sighted.


Which is exactly why we are funding SMR development up here. Solar at higher latitudes isn't a great performer. Commercial installs here have CF's of around 16%, rooftop is far worse. A guy I know with a 1-axis tracker is currently running at 3% CF because of our winter.

Wind tends to be out of phase with demand, which in turn drives up gas usage for when it drops off the grid.

We've stopped subsidizing new builds of both in Ontario thankfully, and have committed to refurbishing 9 nuclear reactors (2 have already been done, 3rd is almost finished). There is also the potential for a new build, though the previous government buggered up the electricity financials enough that funding that will be difficult without courting the ire of the ratepayers who are already incensed over the renewable boondoggle and what it did to rates.
 
https://electrek.co/2019/01/18/tesla-increases-supercharger-prices/

Tesla drastically increases Supercharger prices around the world:

"This time around, prices are going up globally and the US is getting another price increase.

For example, the price in New York used to be $0.24 per kWh state-wide after the last increase and now downtown New York City locations went up to $0.32/kWh - a 33% increase this week.

Again, the prices used to be set per state or region and now they are being set per Supercharging station.

In California, prices went from $0.26 per kWh to ranging from $0.32 to $0.36 per kWh in the charging stations that we verified"



At 36 cents per KWH, driving a Tesla is not going to be cheap. That's a dollar for just a little less than 3 miles on average.
 
Must be a "shocker" for those owners that could barely afford one … but wanted one badly …

The private sector has to get the EV price down and be standardized … in a few years we could be seeing drastic changes in wealth distribution and if the middle class cannot afford them than those same newly burdened tax payers will be hit for more of this …

Also reminds me of large scale round of Apple, Samsung, others in the phone sector … what ? Can't have a standard means to charge something with batteries?

BTW… Don't we all pull up at the same gas and diesel pumps in a couple dozen vehicles ?
 
Originally Posted by Cujet
https://electrek.co/2019/01/18/tesla-increases-supercharger-prices/

Tesla drastically increases Supercharger prices around the world:

"This time around, prices are going up globally and the US is getting another price increase.

For example, the price in New York used to be $0.24 per kWh state-wide after the last increase and now downtown New York City locations went up to $0.32/kWh - a 33% increase this week.

Again, the prices used to be set per state or region and now they are being set per Supercharging station.

In California, prices went from $0.26 per kWh to ranging from $0.32 to $0.36 per kWh in the charging stations that we verified"


At 36 cents per KWH, driving a Tesla is not going to be cheap. That's a dollar for just a little less than 3 miles on average.


To make the math a little easier $1 = ~3kwh = 12 miles. And yes, if you have to pay kalifornia rates an EV makes no sense at all.
 
Originally Posted by 4WD
Must be a "shocker" for those owners that could barely afford one … but wanted one badly …

The private sector has to get the EV price down and be standardized … in a few years we could be seeing drastic changes in wealth distribution and if the middle class cannot afford them than those same newly burdened tax payers will be hit for more of this …

Also reminds me of large scale round of Apple, Samsung, others in the phone sector … what ? Can't have a standard means to charge something with batteries?

BTW… Don't we all pull up at the same gas and diesel pumps in a couple dozen vehicles ?



Biggest problem with electric. All proprietary. I'm surprised the phone companies haven't started forcing you to install a new wall receptacle.

With ICE, you KNOW you can refuel anywhere.
 
Yeah … and as I circled around a Tesla spread to park and eat lunch … I'm left thinking several things. 1) 10 years from now will there be a spread for each company plug in ? 2) How many must be for handicap spots ?
3) How close will the FD allow these to what ? 4) Can the tax mob attack these at will as they do the gas pump ?
 
Originally Posted by 4WD
Yeah … and as I circled around a Tesla spread to park and eat lunch … I'm left thinking several things. 1) 10 years from now will there be a spread for each company plug in ? 2) How many must be for handicap spots ?
3) How close will the FD allow these to what ? 4) Can the tax mob attack these at will as they do the gas pump ?




I'm thinking charging stations will become the parking meters of the future. Swipe card/insert cash to charge vehicle for X amount of time. There's no free lunch, we all know electricity doesn't come out of the wall for free.
laugh.gif
 
Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
Solar generates electricity during the day and sends it to the grid.


Yes, exactly. You're destabilizing the grid during the day by dumping unreliable power into it, and then you rely on that same grid at night.

Meanwhile, power stations have to be kept on standby to supply power when that unreliable power isn't available. Britain has reached the absurd level of paying companies to keep diesel generators ready to go online as backup to that unreliable 'renewable' power.

Quote
Renewable energy creates jobs due to demand; that demand is based on value to the customer.


The only major demand for 'renewable energy' comes from governments taking money from taxpayers and handing it out in subsidies. And it's reached the point where it risks taking down the entire power grid in many countries. They're only able to maintain some kind of stability by dumping that unreliable power on countries that still have reliable power grids... and thereby destabilizing them, too.
 
Originally Posted by PimTac
Elon should lookup Eddie Lampert. Both are running their respective operations in a similar matter.



I believe Sears to be the safer bet. Musk has been nothing but a ring leader in a circus.
 
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