Educate me on 0w40 please

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Originally Posted by Gokhan
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by Gokhan
In any case, 0W-16 held up really well in this TGDI engine.
It held up ... however:
"Comparing the wear rates using SAE 5w30 and SAE 0W-16 oils, lower viscosity lubricant resulted in higher wear across roughly two thirds of the engine operating conditions."

If you read the whole study, the same happened even in the "very cold" engine, which indicates that there were other factors than the viscosity. I mentioned the damaged engine components and unknown base-oil types.

Therefore, it's unclear if some of the results are related to the oil viscosity. Also, if they are related, it's unclear if it's because of the SAE 0W/5W part or SAE 16/30 part.


I think their whole goal was to make sure it was just the viscosity factor they were testing. They probably had the same company supply or blend both the oil weights if they both had exactly the same additive package. And of course some of the testing can be correlated to the 0W/5W part or the 16/30 part of the viscosity because they are doing cold and hot testing scenarios. They ran both oils through the same exact testing sequences, so it's a pretty good 'apples-to-apples' test comparing the effect of viscosity only. That was their whole goal, so I doubt they are going to leave any factors unchecked that would skew the goal.

From the Report:
"A series of in-field operating conditions were selected and the engine operated at these conditions using both a SAE 5w30 oil and a SAE 0W-16 oil with the same additive package."

"The engine was operated at these conditions using both the recommended lubricant grade for the engine - SAE 5w30, and a low viscosity lubricant - SAE 0W-16, to investigate effects of reduced viscosity. The same additive package was used in both oils to ensure observed differences were an artifact of viscosity grade only."
 
One grey area for me is if 0w40 (or 5w40) is suitable for direct injection. Say a Ford EB..

Other than that, 0w40 is a well rounded oil that covers many bases if you want a one fits all.
 
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
... I'm going to say your claim that 0w-16 has a heavier base than 0w-40 doesn't seem plausible. ...


I originally thought thicker oil means thicker base ... and recall asking this question in another thread when it was stated that 0Wx40 oil has thinner base oil than 0Wx30 ... and the consensus/response was that it is very typical and in order to get a wider spread, more vii and lower (thinner) basestock is needed (per Mobil blending guide?).

Not really following the back & forth in this thread and not trying to stir the pot but this caught my attention!

Maybe it's not a universal fact and depends on oil and the base?!

Edit:
Found the link and my question re 0wx30 vs. 0wx40 base

Link
 
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Originally Posted by OilUzer
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
... I'm going to say your claim that 0w-16 has a heavier base than 0w-40 doesn't seem plausible. ...


I originally thought thicker oil means thicker base ... and recall asking this question in another thread when it was stated that 0Wx40 oil has thinner base oil than 0Wx30 ... and the consensus/response was that it is very typical and in order to get a wider spread, more vii and lower (thinner) basestock is needed (per Mobil blending guide?).

Not really following the back & forth in this thread and not trying to stir the pot but this caught my attention!

Maybe it's not a universal fact and depends on oil and the base?!

Edit:
Found the link and my question re 0wx30 vs. 0wx40 base

Link


+1

I remember reading using thicker base but with more pour point depressants were another way to reach the wider spread however the thinner base + more VII was the most common. People also opined that one could tell the composition by how much an oil sheared (ex M1 0w40). If an oil with a wide spread fell out of grade (40w to 30w) then it probably had a lot of VII. After reading that I've decided that 5w30 is probably the sweet spot for my climate.
 
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Thank you; if I remember correctly, it's HTHS is 4.2 ish.

Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by ofelas
I'm assuming I'll be just fine running the 0w40 DZF in my signature.
Diesel application in this PCMO thread, but I reckon the same principles of PAO/VII/PPD etc apply?


Yes. It'll leverage a reasonably thin base oil blend, likely using some 4cSt and 6cSt PAO and then a splash of VII to hit the HTHS and KV100 targets basically. I'd expect it to perhaps have more 6cSt than a Euro blend, which would have a lower HTHS.
 
Originally Posted by OilUzer
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
... I'm going to say your claim that 0w-16 has a heavier base than 0w-40 doesn't seem plausible. ...


I originally thought thicker oil means thicker base ... and recall asking this question in another thread when it was stated that 0Wx40 oil has thinner base oil than 0Wx30 ... and the consensus/response was that it is very typical and in order to get a wider spread, more vii and lower (thinner) basestock is needed (per Mobil blending guide?).

Not really following the back & forth in this thread and not trying to stir the pot but this caught my attention!

Maybe it's not a universal fact and depends on oil and the base?!

Edit:
Found the link and my question re 0wx30 vs. 0wx40 base

Link


Most oils with a 5w-xx or 0w-xx winter rating are going to contain a good percentage of 4cSt base oil and may be based completely on it. That can be Group II, II+, III, III+, PAO or POE. Most of the common oils on the market will be from the first four in that list. While a 0w-40 can be blended using 4cSt base oils, just like a 5w30, examples of which I gave in the post you pulled that quote from, you'll find that the volatilities (Noack) of the lighter bases result in the final lubricant having a reasonably high Noack %, which was the purpose of that post.

A Euro 0w-40 will have a Noack volatility below 10%, because that's a limit for at least one of the OEM approvals.

The Mobil blending guide gives several cases for 0w-40's blended with PAO and POE. the one that uses only 4cSt base oils is nowhere near passing that 10% threshold, also noted in that previous post.

Ergo, while it is indeed possible to blend a 0w-40 with a 4cSt base, and perhaps that's the case for the SRT 0w-40, given its much higher Noack, the majority of the 0w-40's you'll find on the shelf, having volatilities below 10%, would I believe need to contain a reasonable percentage of 6cSt base oil.

Noack volatilities of the bases being discussed:
Group II+ examples

EHC 45: EHC 50: EHC 65:
Group III examples:
Yubase 4: 15.2%
Yubase 4+: 13.5%
Yubase 6: 7.5%
Yubase 6+: 4.1%

PAO examples:
SpectraSyn 4: SpectraSyn Plus 4: SpectraSyn 6: 6.4%
SpectraSyn Plus 6:
POE examples:
Esterex NP343: 4.6%
 
Originally Posted by SonofJoe
I just wondered if this might be apposite?

https://youtu.be/P9jEuHbB0GQ

(full credit to Pet Shop Boys)

lol.gif
Love that! It's applicable for certain folks in Government.
wink.gif
(I'll leave it there)
 
Originally Posted by StevieC
In case anyone is interested. Amsoil XL 5w30 which is an API Licensed oil has a HTHS of 3.3. Not quite a 3.5 but very close.
It's also rated for 12,000 miles and reasonbally priced with the PC Membership ($20-25/year) and is 25% off the standard website price.

They also have 2 0w40's as well. (Although not API Licensed but the one carries some official Euro licensing)

Was that a commercial break? Lol
 
The reason I mentioned it is because some folks here have a problem running a 40wt thinking it's too thick and there was mention in this thread about 40wt providing protection in some areas but maybe increasing wear in other areas because it's less optimal for those areas and it can be a trade off.

So I was thinking that if folks were looking for a 30wt oil with a good HTHS that has a great additive package and that is API licensed at a decent price they should consider this XL 5w30 because it meets what they are looking for in terms of HTHS being really close to 3.5 (at 3.3) without being too thick of a weight. Sort of a really great blend of all things folks might be looking for without having to step all the way up to a 40wt from their spec which might call for a 20wt.

I see here regularly... "I need a thick sided 30" as they try to get to the HTHS they are looking for.

That's all.
 
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Originally Posted by StevieC
The reason I mentioned it is because some folks here have a problem running a 40wt thinking it's too thick and there was mention in this thread about 40wt providing protection in some areas but maybe increasing wear in other areas because it's less optimal for those areas and it can be a trade off.

So I was thinking that if folks were looking for a 30wt oil with a good HTHS that has a great additive package and that is API licensed at a decent price they should consider this XL 5w30 because it meets what they are looking for in terms of HTHS being really close to 3.5 (at 3.3) without being too thick of a weight. Sort of a really great blend of all things folks might be looking for without having to step all the way up to a 40wt from their spec which might call for a 20wt.

I see here regularly... "I need a thick sided 30" as they try to get to the HTHS they are looking for.

That's all.

Oh I see. ...Ž
 
Steve

How much am I paying for two Amsoil oil changes (11 quarts), including the membership fee that no longer exists in your edited post?

Or was that 20-25 dollar membership fee now waived?..... which for me, amounts to an additional $2 per quart.
 
Originally Posted by Triple_Se7en
Steve

How much am I paying for two Amsoil oil changes (11 quarts), including the membership fee that no longer exists in your edited post?

Or was that 20-25 dollar membership fee now waived?..... which for me, amounts to an additional $2 per quart.

It still exists you are looking at the wrong post. The one where I quote the membership is here: https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...re-educate-me-on-0w40-please#Post5002446

As for the cost that is something you have to decide for yourself based on the miles you drive, the length of OCI this oil can give you (cost per mile) and whether it makes sense for you if you want that HTHS in a 30wt given all this. It doesn't fit for everyone and I never claimed it did. It's just an "option" for those that want it.

By all means use a shelf 0w40 like M1 if that works for you.
thumbsup2.gif
 
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What about the base oil used in a ~3.5HTHS 10w30 synthetic? Any idea what blend of viscosities? Types? Noack is 7.4%. Contains 1-5% PAO and 5-10% GTL. Pour point -39C.
 
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Originally Posted by dlundblad
One grey area for me is if 0w40 (or 5w40) is suitable for direct injection. Say a Ford EB..

Other than that, 0w40 is a well rounded oil that covers many bases if you want a one fits all.


99% European cars are recommended for oils such as 0W40 and are DI since long before Ford EB.
 
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by dlundblad
One grey area for me is if 0w40 (or 5w40) is suitable for direct injection. Say a Ford EB..

Other than that, 0w40 is a well rounded oil that covers many bases if you want a one fits all.


99% European cars are recommended for oils such as 0W40 and are DI since long before Ford EB.


Well said.
 
Originally Posted by 1JZ_E46
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by dlundblad
One grey area for me is if 0w40 (or 5w40) is suitable for direct injection. Say a Ford EB..

Other than that, 0w40 is a well rounded oil that covers many bases if you want a one fits all.


99% European cars are recommended for oils such as 0W40 and are DI since long before Ford EB.


Well said.

But, people should be very careful. If it is approved for Porsche A40, and one does not own Porsche, it will instantly kill engine! Actually, one will see engine dying off as one approaches to engine with 0W40 open container to pour oil. As oil goes down, one will witness how engine is melting away.
 
Originally Posted by 1JZ_E46
What about the base oil used in a ~3.5HTHS 10w30 synthetic? Any idea what blend of viscosities? Types? Noack is 7.4%. Contains 1-5% PAO and 5-10% GTL. Pour point -39C.


The Mobil blending guide shows an example full-PAO 10w30 as comprising of 15% 6cSt PAO and 59% 8cSt PAO with a dash of 5cSt POE + 4.5% VII. This yielded a 3.3 HTHS.

You know the lube you are using is predominantly Group III, so it's likely a majority 6cSt base IMHO with GTL and PAO at 8cSt to nail down that Noack + some VII.
 
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