Direct Injection
Does PAO content matter?
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It was nothing to do the oil's labelling.
My comments were more to do with how I was 'set up' to do what was a crazily impossible task by someone who over-promised what could be achieved for business that was massively overstated by customers who should never ever have been trusted. As I recall he also whinged at how much I spent (but only after I'd spent it!).
I likened this program to trying to turn 's**t into sugar'. I did, with a lot of ingenuity & employing every formulating trick in the book, get to The End but this was one of those jobs that should never have been started in the first place. In retrospect, I wonder if he deliberately set this up to see me fail. Envy, malice & spite have no place in the workplace but in my experience, it's all too common.
My comments were more to do with how I was 'set up' to do what was a crazily impossible task by someone who over-promised what could be achieved for business that was massively overstated by customers who should never ever have been trusted. As I recall he also whinged at how much I spent (but only after I'd spent it!).
I likened this program to trying to turn 's**t into sugar'. I did, with a lot of ingenuity & employing every formulating trick in the book, get to The End but this was one of those jobs that should never have been started in the first place. In retrospect, I wonder if he deliberately set this up to see me fail. Envy, malice & spite have no place in the workplace but in my experience, it's all too common.
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Originally Posted by RDY4WAR
Sorry, what is "DI?"
DI = Detergent-Inhibitor, aka, all the stuff in a motor oil that's not the Base Oil.
Sorry, what is "DI?"
DI = Detergent-Inhibitor, aka, all the stuff in a motor oil that's not the Base Oil.
Originally Posted by oil_film_movies
Originally Posted by RDY4WAR
Sorry, what is "DI?"
DI = Detergent-Inhibitor, aka, all the stuff in a motor oil that's not the Base Oil.
Gotcha. So other additives including ZDDP, MoDTC, VII polymers, etc... are competing with the detergent package. I guess this is what's meant by a "balanced formula." Thanks.
Originally Posted by RDY4WAR
Sorry, what is "DI?"
DI = Detergent-Inhibitor, aka, all the stuff in a motor oil that's not the Base Oil.
Gotcha. So other additives including ZDDP, MoDTC, VII polymers, etc... are competing with the detergent package. I guess this is what's meant by a "balanced formula." Thanks.
I see. Still no specfics regarding the chart. Nor anything why group III is so inferior group III based blends meet some of the toughest specs.
Originally Posted by RDY4WAR
Originally Posted by oil_film_movies
Originally Posted by RDY4WAR
Sorry, what is "DI?"
DI = Detergent-Inhibitor, aka, all the stuff in a motor oil that's not the Base Oil.
Gotcha. So other additives including ZDDP, MoDTC, VII polymers, etc... are competing with the detergent package. I guess this is what's meant by a "balanced formula." Thanks.
I didn't quite say it right. A motor oil is "Base Oil" + DI + VM + PPD to be more accurate. VM=ViscosityModifier, which thickens the oil when hot; & PPD is Pour Point Depressant which tries to prevent waxy crystals from forming when cold. The DI has the FM (moly, tungsten, OFM), ZDDP, detergents, boron maybe, corrosion inhibitors, dispersants, etc., the real vitamins of the mix. PAO, GroupIII, esters, etc. are in the base oil.
![[Linked Image]](https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/IQ4GkR7xBTJeCnM2uIKhCJvqEOv_dUvwmfbQkm-SchlSHBcxzmcyv4OQatcFiUKLdPcqSDHInqx1Ahf5-PE5PkqTy4UqQD1PEeUVPjHHBy0cM6wcsGV9ybIogCuR5vUh3Wor4ZlElIIi68L7pgpghpDyxTib_BMdagz8Xm3c0n7IK50kKrY9a-9aBBWrnZdEedy5l04hZCWPPkRe5zkAhHMxO01iOMjOi-p1VAW9NDfD7NsDCXJdFnHEVE8MzO7Y9iAb2UqKeGuGX8QTIRJyI35Oa3AxfLQSeTb6yKN1MC0ueg6rn-KPtvZe0u205KsPbIxqs6whF1HYDnuvXCuwaeU5slAhZ3pxwuIKNgpwJi5pc5H4Fle9SfoUZklYgQ7_lDRZVB7YCVW4wFTsPmlV06RuXQvNVy2WX3nP0siC049oG8llG7nZqlC73swb-r1hEMDwdVJjWJ6Gq0cEj7hkweglp_w3FWCz2i3hiTo5uq9uTIfO5b8cNu-KGryZtRl3mZMAQqaCCKotXhiZS8YFsx8XUdG7SHWKTbyLA-79_IMxb28NBcUP_i4JunKXNg-gJjfZ3vs2mFfq7BE1V9NY5t8fqe02cfwMTetW6PFq=w1310-h624-no?.png "[Linked Image]")
It looks like the above, being 100% PAO with a little ester, is what Ravenol typically does, as most Mobil1 oils mix PAO with GroupIII, and it works well. Note the low NOACK in the all-PAO/ester stuff though. The 5w30 has a very low NOACK.
Originally Posted by oil_film_movies
Originally Posted by RDY4WAR
Sorry, what is "DI?"
DI = Detergent-Inhibitor, aka, all the stuff in a motor oil that's not the Base Oil.
Gotcha. So other additives including ZDDP, MoDTC, VII polymers, etc... are competing with the detergent package. I guess this is what's meant by a "balanced formula." Thanks.
I didn't quite say it right. A motor oil is "Base Oil" + DI + VM + PPD to be more accurate. VM=ViscosityModifier, which thickens the oil when hot; & PPD is Pour Point Depressant which tries to prevent waxy crystals from forming when cold. The DI has the FM (moly, tungsten, OFM), ZDDP, detergents, boron maybe, corrosion inhibitors, dispersants, etc., the real vitamins of the mix. PAO, GroupIII, esters, etc. are in the base oil.
It looks like the above, being 100% PAO with a little ester, is what Ravenol typically does, as most Mobil1 oils mix PAO with GroupIII, and it works well. Note the low NOACK in the all-PAO/ester stuff though. The 5w30 has a very low NOACK.
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Ok, I'm following now. DI is the whole additive package.
Thanks for the chart. Can you post the link/source?
Thanks for the chart. Can you post the link/source?
Originally Posted by burla
Anyhow, my apologies for being biased, I do wish the crowd that always shows up to spit on group 4/5 oils actually take another look at the benefits. At ram forum there is an every growing group reaping the benefits, at least one member a month ends hemi tick by using ester/pao, sometimes 3 members a month, but every month the number keeps growing, we can be found at ram forum. You may think that is silly, but when it's your engine knocking and all you had to do was quiet it was to use a saturated group 4/5 oil, then you would understand first hand the benefits of this formula, and when you add the fact the uoa's are killing it then it gets even better, and now add that to the tendency for these engines to eat up cams/lifters at 70k-100k miles, you understand why we are researching lubrication and are searching for answers to protect those engines.
Taking that all at face value, which I do, you should spit an equal amount of venom at Chrysler as you lavish praise on Red Line. After all, it's not an oil issue; it's an engine issue.
Anyhow, my apologies for being biased, I do wish the crowd that always shows up to spit on group 4/5 oils actually take another look at the benefits. At ram forum there is an every growing group reaping the benefits, at least one member a month ends hemi tick by using ester/pao, sometimes 3 members a month, but every month the number keeps growing, we can be found at ram forum. You may think that is silly, but when it's your engine knocking and all you had to do was quiet it was to use a saturated group 4/5 oil, then you would understand first hand the benefits of this formula, and when you add the fact the uoa's are killing it then it gets even better, and now add that to the tendency for these engines to eat up cams/lifters at 70k-100k miles, you understand why we are researching lubrication and are searching for answers to protect those engines.
Taking that all at face value, which I do, you should spit an equal amount of venom at Chrysler as you lavish praise on Red Line. After all, it's not an oil issue; it's an engine issue.
Originally Posted by SonofJoe
It was nothing to do the oil's labelling.
My comments were more to do with how I was 'set up' to do what was a crazily impossible task by someone who over-promised what could be achieved for business that was massively overstated by customers who should never ever have been trusted. As I recall he also whinged at how much I spent (but only after I'd spent it!).
I likened this program to trying to turn 's**t into sugar'. I did, with a lot of ingenuity & employing every formulating trick in the book, get to The End but this was one of those jobs that should never have been started in the first place. In retrospect, I wonder if he deliberately set this up to see me fail. Envy, malice & spite have no place in the workplace but in my experience, it's all too common.
Have had that happen a handful of times also
* Congratulations, the turbine engineer has taken voluntary separation...here's a turbine in pieces on the floor, you've got 6 weeks.
* You know that old open cut coal mine that needs to become an ash storage area, and corporate have been fapping with for 3 years ? Well it's now December 23rd, and we've decided that it's really a site project...you're it, you've got to June 30th.
It was nothing to do the oil's labelling.
My comments were more to do with how I was 'set up' to do what was a crazily impossible task by someone who over-promised what could be achieved for business that was massively overstated by customers who should never ever have been trusted. As I recall he also whinged at how much I spent (but only after I'd spent it!).
I likened this program to trying to turn 's**t into sugar'. I did, with a lot of ingenuity & employing every formulating trick in the book, get to The End but this was one of those jobs that should never have been started in the first place. In retrospect, I wonder if he deliberately set this up to see me fail. Envy, malice & spite have no place in the workplace but in my experience, it's all too common.
Have had that happen a handful of times also
* Congratulations, the turbine engineer has taken voluntary separation...here's a turbine in pieces on the floor, you've got 6 weeks.
* You know that old open cut coal mine that needs to become an ash storage area, and corporate have been fapping with for 3 years ? Well it's now December 23rd, and we've decided that it's really a site project...you're it, you've got to June 30th.
Originally Posted by RDY4WAR
Ok, I'm following now. DI is the whole additive package.Thanks for the chart. Can you post the link/source?
Garak & Shannow, bitog posters, had this a while back:
https://www.exxonmobilchemical.com/~/media/chemicals/kl-media-assets/2017/11/02/15/00/synthetic_lubricant_base_stocks_formulations_guide_en_2017pdf.pdf
Download Link PDF file Mobil oil Guide
Ok, I'm following now. DI is the whole additive package.Thanks for the chart. Can you post the link/source?
Garak & Shannow, bitog posters, had this a while back:
https://www.exxonmobilchemical.com/~/media/chemicals/kl-media-assets/2017/11/02/15/00/synthetic_lubricant_base_stocks_formulations_guide_en_2017pdf.pdf
Download Link PDF file Mobil oil Guide
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Originally Posted by oil_film_movies
Originally Posted by RDY4WAR
Ok, I'm following now. DI is the whole additive package.Thanks for the chart. Can you post the link/source?
Garak & Shannow, bitog posters, had this a while back:
https://www.exxonmobilchemical.com/~/media/chemicals/kl-media-assets/2017/11/02/15/00/synthetic_lubricant_base_stocks_formulations_guide_en_2017pdf.pdf
Download Link PDF file Mobil oil Guide
Beautiful! I wish other brands had shared such as this to the public. Thanks.
Originally Posted by RDY4WAR
Ok, I'm following now. DI is the whole additive package.Thanks for the chart. Can you post the link/source?
Garak & Shannow, bitog posters, had this a while back:
https://www.exxonmobilchemical.com/~/media/chemicals/kl-media-assets/2017/11/02/15/00/synthetic_lubricant_base_stocks_formulations_guide_en_2017pdf.pdf
Download Link PDF file Mobil oil Guide
Beautiful! I wish other brands had shared such as this to the public. Thanks.
Originally Posted by SonofJoe
The third program was an oddball 5W40 development. It happened a bit later on in my career when I was a bit more technically & commercially savvy. The base oil system was a mix of light PAO (minimised), light Group III & heavy Group I (the customer had no heavy PAO or Group III & heavy Group I was essential for keeping the Noack down). Note this system DIDN'T need ester to pass seals & I was very happy to leave it out. The DI was extremely skinny (anorexic?) & it was a minor miracle that I got the oil to squeak through all the tests it had to pass. The thing I learnt from this program was that all Business Managers are lying, two-faced idiots & should all be drowned at birth.
Zing!
The third program was an oddball 5W40 development. It happened a bit later on in my career when I was a bit more technically & commercially savvy. The base oil system was a mix of light PAO (minimised), light Group III & heavy Group I (the customer had no heavy PAO or Group III & heavy Group I was essential for keeping the Noack down). Note this system DIDN'T need ester to pass seals & I was very happy to leave it out. The DI was extremely skinny (anorexic?) & it was a minor miracle that I got the oil to squeak through all the tests it had to pass. The thing I learnt from this program was that all Business Managers are lying, two-faced idiots & should all be drowned at birth.
Zing!
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