Does FP60 contain alcohol?
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I have found that companys generally do not respond to emails requesting information. I will give it a try, but I doubt they will reply. If they do respond it will probably be something like it is a secret formula and they can't devulge that information. All I want is a yes or no.
I doubt you'll get a yes or a no, but wasn't FP fleet tested on diesel rigs with millions of miles under their belt? I doubt it will cause any harm whatsoever. I'm thinking *only* the opposite is true.
I am not sure, but it makes me feel kinda weird...
Are you drinking it straight?quote:
Originally posted by Big O Dave:
I am not sure, but it makes me feel kinda weird...
I find on the rocks, or mixed with cranberry juice, is much smoother.
Does anyone know if FP60 contains alcohol? I have and 03 Ford PSD and Ford states not to use fuel additives that contain alcohol. I checked the FP60 MSDS on the LC site and it does not list any propietary ingredients. Is there I simply test I can used to check for alcohol?
whats the flash point most alcohols used in fuel additives have a very low flash point and the flash point on the MSDS will offer a clue. Even a small amount 300 or 350 not enough to worry about IMHO.
bruce
bruce
Flash point >350.
slc, no viable company is going to disclose its full formula for obvious reasons.
As with any product I have independently tested or worked for as a consultant in testing, I cannot confirm nor deny the proprietary constituents of the formula, if I know it.
I can say that bruce381 provides a cogent point.
I can say that engine makers will attempt to "channel" the customer to their pet marketing driven products by throwing out data that compels the owner to buy the "approved" ( officially or unofficially) product.
There are many fine fuel add products that have a alcohol component and cause no harm, there are products that use none and they are the ones that Ford for whatever reason wants you to use. As in motor oil the final formulation and performance in the real world is the key!
I agree with Ford/Navistar, do not use an alcohol fuel add in their injection systems.
However, their recommendation, from what I know of this industry is motivated by marketing reasons, not actual worries about the formulations. No viable diesel fuel add maker recommends using harmful levels of any chemical as an add in the fuel.
Having said all that I recommend FP60 be used in every diesel customers fuel over any other you may be familiar with. If a fuel add caused problems with the fuel or oil side of the diesel engine I would see it in 30 year or work. FP60 has been in continous use for at least 50 years.
However, I do indeed see problems with many popular NAME brand diesel fuel additives that contain many chemicals including alcohol and those that contain no alcohol component.
I reserve the proprietary right to disclose those fuel additives to MY customers through the intellectual property of specific oil analysis results for their engine using said additive. My goal is not to sell an additive but get the best performance for the dollar for my analysis customers !
Hows that for tip toeing so I can still get the next job !
Terry
[ October 03, 2005, 10:41 AM: Message edited by: Terry ]
As with any product I have independently tested or worked for as a consultant in testing, I cannot confirm nor deny the proprietary constituents of the formula, if I know it.
I can say that bruce381 provides a cogent point.
I can say that engine makers will attempt to "channel" the customer to their pet marketing driven products by throwing out data that compels the owner to buy the "approved" ( officially or unofficially) product.
There are many fine fuel add products that have a alcohol component and cause no harm, there are products that use none and they are the ones that Ford for whatever reason wants you to use. As in motor oil the final formulation and performance in the real world is the key!
I agree with Ford/Navistar, do not use an alcohol fuel add in their injection systems.
However, their recommendation, from what I know of this industry is motivated by marketing reasons, not actual worries about the formulations. No viable diesel fuel add maker recommends using harmful levels of any chemical as an add in the fuel.
Having said all that I recommend FP60 be used in every diesel customers fuel over any other you may be familiar with. If a fuel add caused problems with the fuel or oil side of the diesel engine I would see it in 30 year or work. FP60 has been in continous use for at least 50 years.
However, I do indeed see problems with many popular NAME brand diesel fuel additives that contain many chemicals including alcohol and those that contain no alcohol component.
I reserve the proprietary right to disclose those fuel additives to MY customers through the intellectual property of specific oil analysis results for their engine using said additive. My goal is not to sell an additive but get the best performance for the dollar for my analysis customers !
Hows that for tip toeing so I can still get the next job !
Terry
[ October 03, 2005, 10:41 AM: Message edited by: Terry ]
Well done Terry!!!
This FP stuff sounds like the real deal as far as helping. Do you have "results" that would make it worth the price of admission for a '01 Ram diesel that went from 16-17 down to 14-15 mpg to bring it back up a bit, considering the price of fuel these days?
This FP stuff sounds like the real deal as far as helping. Do you have "results" that would make it worth the price of admission for a '01 Ram diesel that went from 16-17 down to 14-15 mpg to bring it back up a bit, considering the price of fuel these days?
The cheapest darn diesel fuel I can find!!!
Usually I use Gulf, BP, or Sunoco diesel fuels.
The oil in this beast is the HDEO Renewable Lubes HOBS oil @ 15w40. It's got about 2500 miles on it or so, and I'll be draining soon to put in my winter blend that I've concocted in my sick little brain!! I wasn't too worried yet, 'cause it does have 100K miles on, and I let her warm up a bit on chilly mornings, and if I'm getting out for a quick errand, I'll just let her run (easier on the starting system and batteries that way).
I just figured I'd ask given that this product is so highly spoke and thought of on this forum.
Usually I use Gulf, BP, or Sunoco diesel fuels.
The oil in this beast is the HDEO Renewable Lubes HOBS oil @ 15w40. It's got about 2500 miles on it or so, and I'll be draining soon to put in my winter blend that I've concocted in my sick little brain!! I wasn't too worried yet, 'cause it does have 100K miles on, and I let her warm up a bit on chilly mornings, and if I'm getting out for a quick errand, I'll just let her run (easier on the starting system and batteries that way).
I just figured I'd ask given that this product is so highly spoke and thought of on this forum.
I got a reply from LC today. As I expected, it's a secret formula and they can't tell me yes or no. They said it's been used in diesels for over 45 years with not problems. So far at BOB'S I have not heard anything negative about FP60 and the people around here are certainly more than qualified to render a educated opinion about using the product. I don't know any more now than when I started about FP60 containing alcohol. I do know nobody has said that it does.
Based on Terry's recommendations, I am now using FP and LC, even though I have a new Honda V6 with less than 4000 K on it. I have seen an increase in fuel mileage already of 2 miles per gallon. I consider that a nice bonus as that is not the reason I purchased these products. The more I read here the more I have to believe these products are the real thing - and work.
I want to use Havoline 5w20 in my Honda when I dump the factory fill. I also want to try out the OLM Honda has put in this Ridgeline truck. I never had an OLM but the more I learn about this thing the more I think that it is a better way to go than some arbitrary X miles/X months OCI.
The problem is that most dino is stressed at the point the OLM signals service is due. Ridgeline owners have reported that the first service due notice comes on when the oil has 15% life expectancy and this is somewhere between 5,000 and 7,000 miles, depending on driving habits and the other stuff the OLM measures.
So, if I want to use Havoline AND go by the OLM, I believe the use of LC will help the oil better meet the OLM service due figure of 5-7K. I know the OLM does not figure in any additive, but I would rather be on the safe side just in case this contraption is not as accurate an indicator for OCI as I think it is.
I want to use Havoline 5w20 in my Honda when I dump the factory fill. I also want to try out the OLM Honda has put in this Ridgeline truck. I never had an OLM but the more I learn about this thing the more I think that it is a better way to go than some arbitrary X miles/X months OCI.
The problem is that most dino is stressed at the point the OLM signals service is due. Ridgeline owners have reported that the first service due notice comes on when the oil has 15% life expectancy and this is somewhere between 5,000 and 7,000 miles, depending on driving habits and the other stuff the OLM measures.
So, if I want to use Havoline AND go by the OLM, I believe the use of LC will help the oil better meet the OLM service due figure of 5-7K. I know the OLM does not figure in any additive, but I would rather be on the safe side just in case this contraption is not as accurate an indicator for OCI as I think it is.
Dad if you want I'd love to see a 5-7K UOA,s on your renewable HDEO if you send me some I'd do the test for you.quote:
Originally posted by Dad2leia:
The cheapest darn diesel fuel I can find!!!
Usually I use Gulf, BP, or Sunoco diesel fuels.
The oil in this beast is the HDEO Renewable Lubes HOBS oil @ 15w40. It's got about 2500 miles on it or so, and I'll be draining soon to put in my winter blend that I've concocted in my sick little brain!! I wasn't too worried yet, 'cause it does have 100K miles on, and I let her warm up a bit on chilly mornings, and if I'm getting out for a quick errand, I'll just let her run (easier on the starting system and batteries that way).
I just figured I'd ask given that this product is so highly spoke and thought of on this forum.
bruce
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