In other words, could T6 5W-40 be SN rated as is or is there some chemical composition/performance metric that precludes it?
Does anything about Rotella T6 5W-40 preclude an SN rating?
- Thread starter doyall
- Start date
It used to be dual-rated in the past.
The only S-rated Rotella T-series HDEO is the T6 5w30. Here is a quote from @ChrisGuerrero (a Shell employee) mentioned in this thread.
It's mostly due to phosphorus levels.
It's mostly due to phosphorus levels.
Yes, Shell refuses to take advantage of the break a xw40 gets on phosphorus and also purposely brought their phosphorus level down to 800 ppm on their 5w30 which is pretty low for a diesel oil.
T6 5w30 is also ACEA E6, which also has a limit of 800 ppm P
SOPUS has recently made their Rotella T5 & T6 40 oil's SN rated but I've not seen this yet on the 5w-40 grade of oil. Not sure why though. It has the same add pack as the 15w40 T6.
Because ZDDP if it’s SN rated has to have no more than I think a combined total of zinc and phosphorus of 1400 ppm which is what the EPA wants ZDDP levels at for gas powered vehicles.
15w-40 & 5w-40 T6 have the same exact additive package but the 15w-40 only has the SN rating. There's no difference in the add pack but they're not putting SN on the 5w-40. If their 15w-40 qualifies for SN based on the add pack then the 5w-40 would too. There's something else going on here & hopefully we'll find out eventually.
Also, the 1400 total limit, There are many well over that meet SN gasoline rating. However, that may be a limitation for oil below a 40 grade?
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If in doubt, buy Delo.
https://360.lubrizol.com/2023/JASO-T903-2023-Motorcycle-Specification-Is-Here
Sorry. I was wrong. It’s SJ at minimum now.
My working theories on why Shell has removed, added, removed, added, removed etc. the “S” category on Rotella is:
1. Up till August 2023, SP and SN+ weren’t listed at approved JASO MA/MA2 specs.
2. It’s a duplication of specs. If you’re MA/MA2 approved, by default, you must meet at least SJ.
3. It’s shell. Seriously. You probably have two mid level managers changing the labels without a full technical review. Because marketing. And MBAs. And the 5 year plan that gets reorganized every 3 years. Don’t over think it. (I’m leaning towards this one. Hanlons razor and all.)
Sorry. I was wrong. It’s SJ at minimum now.
My working theories on why Shell has removed, added, removed, added, removed etc. the “S” category on Rotella is:
1. Up till August 2023, SP and SN+ weren’t listed at approved JASO MA/MA2 specs.
2. It’s a duplication of specs. If you’re MA/MA2 approved, by default, you must meet at least SJ.
3. It’s shell. Seriously. You probably have two mid level managers changing the labels without a full technical review. Because marketing. And MBAs. And the 5 year plan that gets reorganized every 3 years. Don’t over think it. (I’m leaning towards this one. Hanlons razor and all.)
#3 Gave SPUS more time to push Truck & SUV. I don't know if that's true but that's what it looked like from my angle. They were waiting for the smoke to clear on the CK-4 transition as well. All good points you note.
I was using T6-5w40 in an oil burner semi modern car and tripped the downstream 02 sensor cel.
Changed back to 10w30 PUP and the light went out after the oil change.
My guess is that it’s on the ragged edge of SN and fails due to too much cat killing stuff.
Changed back to 10w30 PUP and the light went out after the oil change.
My guess is that it’s on the ragged edge of SN and fails due to too much cat killing stuff.
Probably for the same reason racing/break-in/specialty oils can't meet the spec...levels of anti-wear elements are higher than what is allowed for the rating.
Here is some info from 2023. It doesn’t mention a SN rating for 15W40. Do you have any other material that confirms a SN rating?
And here is the confirmation of the SN rating for 5w30 T6.
Yes, Here's proof with a picture I took w/my own cellphone.
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/t...5w-40-now-sn-rated.372381/page-3#post-6609655