- Joined
- Dec 30, 2006
- Messages
- 29,558
Me,I'm definitely a turbo guy. There's nothing like the turbos suddenly kicking in and the boost throwing you back into the seat.
Dodge "muscle strategy" versus Chevy/Ford?
- Thread starter SumpChump
- Start date
- Status
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
DB had money to blow.
Fiat doesn't.
Old tech fuel guzzlers rather than more modern designs?
Why not? Makes our obsolete powertrains look good and at current fuel prices nobody cares.
GM and Ford can afford more modern designs while FCA can't.
Simple as that.
The 6.4L/392 is actually a rather new engine and is no less "high tech" than GM's LSx series engines. Putting the ZF 8spd behind it and the big lump even gets decent gas mileage.
The Pentastar is their latest affordable DOHC effort, which most equate with "high tech".
The little turbo mills are going in Fiat products, they are keeping their bread and butter (the trucks) naturally aspirated (save the Cummins) as they do not have the time or money invested in a turbo V6 programme like Ford has. GM has stayed a similar route, save for the addition of Direct Injection.
Both of the highest performance offerings from GM and Dodge are big old supercharged pushrod V8's.
Also many here may not be aware that the pentestar shares DNA with the Mercedes Benz 3.5L which is used in many of MB high end SUVs and E series cars.
FCA also produced the dart as a multi air turbo car before we were seeing small ecoboost cars.
Ram is sticking with the Hemi because it is strong and dependable while allowing them to outprice GM and Ford. You can get a loaded up Ram for the price of an entry level F150.
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
DB had money to blow.
Fiat doesn't.
Old tech fuel guzzlers rather than more modern designs?
Why not? Makes our obsolete powertrains look good and at current fuel prices nobody cares.
GM and Ford can afford more modern designs while FCA can't.
Simple as that.
The 6.4L/392 is actually a rather new engine and is no less "high tech" than GM's LSx series engines. Putting the ZF 8spd behind it and the big lump even gets decent gas mileage.
The Pentastar is their latest affordable DOHC effort, which most equate with "high tech".
The little turbo mills are going in Fiat products, they are keeping their bread and butter (the trucks) naturally aspirated (save the Cummins) as they do not have the time or money invested in a turbo V6 programme like Ford has. GM has stayed a similar route, save for the addition of Direct Injection.
Both of the highest performance offerings from GM and Dodge are big old supercharged pushrod V8's.
Also many here may not be aware that the pentestar shares DNA with the Mercedes Benz 3.5L which is used in many of MB high end SUVs and E series cars.
FCA also produced the dart as a multi air turbo car before we were seeing small ecoboost cars.
Ram is sticking with the Hemi because it is strong and dependable while allowing them to outprice GM and Ford. You can get a loaded up Ram for the price of an entry level F150.
Last edited:
I just respect FCA for making a good rear drive, V8 sedan, something GM and Ford don't do (Unless Chevy still has the SS). Unless you get a Mustang or Camaro, you get wrong wheel drive. LOL
The big 6.4 Hemis are torque monsters anybody that says they like how the V6 turbos boost and push you back in your seat never drove a 6.4 Hemi. The 5.7 doesn't do bad either. Simple long running engines. No thanks on turbos and all that. I am sure they run good but way over priced for what you get. The New Fords do not impress me and I was never a Chevy guy.
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
GM toyed around with it a bit (Northstar) but ultimately found the most traction with the LSx mills to replace the venerable SBC and that's the route they've stuck with. They've developed a high performance V6 (HF V6) that has not been problem-free as their intermediate engine.
I don't think almost a 20 year run is toying around. I considered a Shortstar for a Jeep project as they make decent power, but they had their quirks.
I think GM just never had the knack and went back to making what it made best.
GM toyed around with it a bit (Northstar) but ultimately found the most traction with the LSx mills to replace the venerable SBC and that's the route they've stuck with. They've developed a high performance V6 (HF V6) that has not been problem-free as their intermediate engine.
I don't think almost a 20 year run is toying around. I considered a Shortstar for a Jeep project as they make decent power, but they had their quirks.
I think GM just never had the knack and went back to making what it made best.
Ford Mustang sales where down 30%. Can still find 2016s around. The design changes didn't strike well as the 2011-14 that were close to the 2005-10. The Coyote 5.0 with the 6R80 auto is hard to beat with NA 420 ponies. Easy to put on a pair of turbos or a supercharger to go to 1000HP. Can get into a base 5.0 GT 2016 for 28k
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
I have no excuse for Chevy and them giving up on the SS.
They didn't sell. We had one on the lot for about a full year. Not enough hardcore Chevy RWD sedan people willing to spend the money over buying a '90s Impala, Caprice or Roadmaster with an LT1 and building it up. Enthusiast cars are never all about profit, but there does come a point where the original manufacturer gives up.
I have no excuse for Chevy and them giving up on the SS.
They didn't sell. We had one on the lot for about a full year. Not enough hardcore Chevy RWD sedan people willing to spend the money over buying a '90s Impala, Caprice or Roadmaster with an LT1 and building it up. Enthusiast cars are never all about profit, but there does come a point where the original manufacturer gives up.
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
Me,I'm definitely a turbo guy. There's nothing like the turbos suddenly kicking in and the boost throwing you back into the seat.
I hear ya...I had a turbo Dodge Colt and a twin turbo 2000 Audi S4. Loved them.
But now I listen to small block V8 music in my 2016 Chevy SS Sport Sedan. 4dr muscle car while you can still get one!
Me,I'm definitely a turbo guy. There's nothing like the turbos suddenly kicking in and the boost throwing you back into the seat.
I hear ya...I had a turbo Dodge Colt and a twin turbo 2000 Audi S4. Loved them.
But now I listen to small block V8 music in my 2016 Chevy SS Sport Sedan. 4dr muscle car while you can still get one!
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: Zaedock
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
GM toyed around with it a bit (Northstar) but ultimately found the most traction with the LSx mills to replace the venerable SBC and that's the route they've stuck with. They've developed a high performance V6 (HF V6) that has not been problem-free as their intermediate engine.
I don't think almost a 20 year run is toying around. I considered a Shortstar for a Jeep project as they make decent power, but they had their quirks.
I think GM just never had the knack and went back to making what it made best.
Guess it depends on how you look at it
They never made their way out of a few select cars and into high volume vehicles like trucks, which was the same route Ford started with, but Ford very quickly committed and went all-in on them (cammers) with the Modular, GM never did.
I remember the Northstar debuting in the Aurora, which was a stunningly good looking car for its day (IMHO).
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
GM toyed around with it a bit (Northstar) but ultimately found the most traction with the LSx mills to replace the venerable SBC and that's the route they've stuck with. They've developed a high performance V6 (HF V6) that has not been problem-free as their intermediate engine.
I don't think almost a 20 year run is toying around. I considered a Shortstar for a Jeep project as they make decent power, but they had their quirks.
I think GM just never had the knack and went back to making what it made best.
Guess it depends on how you look at it
I remember the Northstar debuting in the Aurora, which was a stunningly good looking car for its day (IMHO).
My family has been Dodge folks since my grandfather; at family events Dodges and Chryslers were lined up and down the street. But, after Mopar was bought out by Fiat, my taste for them greatly diminished. And now, as I've seen overall quality and innovation go by the wayside, I'm pretty much not interested in FCA anything.
The Hemi and Pentastar are still great engines, but that is really all FCA has to offer, IMO. Which isn't enough for me to buy one these days. A vehicle is more than just an engine. All manufacturers have issues, but I've been seeing our trusty Dodges start be less and less trusty. The only Dodges in the family which seem to be holding up well are the pre-2007's and one (my father) 2013 Chrysler 300.
American manufacturer wise, Ford would be at the top of my buying list, today, followed by GM. Heck, if the Explorer had a bigger third row, one would be in our driveway, instead of a Buick.
The Hemi and Pentastar are still great engines, but that is really all FCA has to offer, IMO. Which isn't enough for me to buy one these days. A vehicle is more than just an engine. All manufacturers have issues, but I've been seeing our trusty Dodges start be less and less trusty. The only Dodges in the family which seem to be holding up well are the pre-2007's and one (my father) 2013 Chrysler 300.
American manufacturer wise, Ford would be at the top of my buying list, today, followed by GM. Heck, if the Explorer had a bigger third row, one would be in our driveway, instead of a Buick.
- Joined
- Jul 2, 2007
- Messages
- 5,294
Meanwhile, they all get smoked off the line by an electric car w/ a 337 mile range.
http://www.motortrend.com/cars/tesla/model-s/2017/2017-tesla-model-s-p100d-first-test-review/
http://www.motortrend.com/cars/tesla/model-s/2017/2017-tesla-model-s-p100d-first-test-review/
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Both of the highest performance offerings from GM and Dodge are big old supercharged pushrod V8's.
That about says it all.
And MOPAR is selling those big mills like crazy. HP sells cars.
Both of the highest performance offerings from GM and Dodge are big old supercharged pushrod V8's.
That about says it all.
And MOPAR is selling those big mills like crazy. HP sells cars.
Originally Posted By: LoneRanger
Meanwhile, they all get smoked off the line by an electric car w/ a 337 mile range.
http://www.motortrend.com/cars/tesla/model-s/2017/2017-tesla-model-s-p100d-first-test-review/
Yes, but the Tesla will lose if those races go longer than the standing mile. Otherwise, yes it wins that race.
As to the Dodge engines. In the new Demon, there is what they are calling an "air chiller" that uses some of the car's AC component I believe to deliver a colder air charge. That, and the supercharger cranked way high. The test I saw seems to think Dodge overestimated its numbers, in comparison to a ZL1 Camaro where drivers see faster than claimed times.
Meanwhile, they all get smoked off the line by an electric car w/ a 337 mile range.
http://www.motortrend.com/cars/tesla/model-s/2017/2017-tesla-model-s-p100d-first-test-review/
Yes, but the Tesla will lose if those races go longer than the standing mile. Otherwise, yes it wins that race.
As to the Dodge engines. In the new Demon, there is what they are calling an "air chiller" that uses some of the car's AC component I believe to deliver a colder air charge. That, and the supercharger cranked way high. The test I saw seems to think Dodge overestimated its numbers, in comparison to a ZL1 Camaro where drivers see faster than claimed times.
Originally Posted By: Zaedock
Originally Posted By: BobsArmory
This makes me wonder what my 1973 Bronco with the 302 made HP wise. I know it wasn't much but I was in High School and it was plenty!
Just about the same as my '75 = 125HP HAHAHA!
I rebuilt the 2.5L Jeep engine in my trail rig and it makes 150HP. LOL
I had a very worn out 2.5. I'm pretty sure it was making 50 to the wheels.
Originally Posted By: BobsArmory
This makes me wonder what my 1973 Bronco with the 302 made HP wise. I know it wasn't much but I was in High School and it was plenty!
Just about the same as my '75 = 125HP HAHAHA!
I rebuilt the 2.5L Jeep engine in my trail rig and it makes 150HP. LOL
I had a very worn out 2.5. I'm pretty sure it was making 50 to the wheels.
It does seem like dodge is being a little conservative and just banking on a good solid 5.7 engine But quite frankly I'm impressed with all the engine choices out there something for everybody
I own a F1 50 with a 5.0 but I drove the eco-boost and was very impressed with the power delivery My next second vehicle will have an eco-boost so I have the best of both worlds
I own a F1 50 with a 5.0 but I drove the eco-boost and was very impressed with the power delivery My next second vehicle will have an eco-boost so I have the best of both worlds
More HP is great however I think Sergio should just release the following statement : We really don't have much to offer except these 2004 vintage machines well past their expiration date. Please enjoy the tire smoking until we can deliver some fresh product : Sergio out.
Originally Posted By: donnyj08
Also many here may not be aware that the pentestar shares DNA with the Mercedes Benz 3.5L which is used in many of MB high end SUVs and E series cars.
FCA also produced the dart as a multi air turbo car before we were seeing small ecoboost cars.
And wasn't FCA's newest non-Fiat 4 cylinder engine a joint project between the former DaimlerChrysler, Mitsubishi and Hyundai? I know Mopar's 5-speed auto was more or less a tweaked Mercedes 5G-Tronic that was built in the USA.
It felt like Daimler did give Chrysler some new technology, but the overlords in Stuttgart didn't want to water down the Mercedes brand.
Also many here may not be aware that the pentestar shares DNA with the Mercedes Benz 3.5L which is used in many of MB high end SUVs and E series cars.
FCA also produced the dart as a multi air turbo car before we were seeing small ecoboost cars.
And wasn't FCA's newest non-Fiat 4 cylinder engine a joint project between the former DaimlerChrysler, Mitsubishi and Hyundai? I know Mopar's 5-speed auto was more or less a tweaked Mercedes 5G-Tronic that was built in the USA.
It felt like Daimler did give Chrysler some new technology, but the overlords in Stuttgart didn't want to water down the Mercedes brand.
Originally Posted By: Ammofirst
More HP is great however I think Sergio should just release the following statement : We really don't have much to offer except these 2004 vintage machines well past their expiration date. Please enjoy the tire smoking until we can deliver some fresh product : Sergio out.
Sergio spends way too much time micromanaging an F1 team for someone who has as many responsibilities as he does.
More HP is great however I think Sergio should just release the following statement : We really don't have much to offer except these 2004 vintage machines well past their expiration date. Please enjoy the tire smoking until we can deliver some fresh product : Sergio out.
Sergio spends way too much time micromanaging an F1 team for someone who has as many responsibilities as he does.
Originally Posted By: LoneRanger
Meanwhile, they all get smoked off the line by an electric car w/ a 337 mile range.
http://www.motortrend.com/cars/tesla/model-s/2017/2017-tesla-model-s-p100d-first-test-review/
But the Tesla can't do both. What the Tesla has going for it in the 0-60 sprint, is all wheel drive, traction due to it's high curb weight, and full torque from zero RPM that helps it briefly overcome that curb weight disadvantage. If you use the 'ludicrous' mode, you will dramatically decrease the range available on the charge. Use it repeatedly, combined with their 'supercharger' recharging, and you will decrease the capacity and life of the battery.
My neighbor was anxious to show me his Tesla in 'Ludicrous' mode. It's impressive for a 5000 lb car. It ruined his day when I beat him with my (his words) "crotch rocket".
Meanwhile, they all get smoked off the line by an electric car w/ a 337 mile range.
http://www.motortrend.com/cars/tesla/model-s/2017/2017-tesla-model-s-p100d-first-test-review/
But the Tesla can't do both. What the Tesla has going for it in the 0-60 sprint, is all wheel drive, traction due to it's high curb weight, and full torque from zero RPM that helps it briefly overcome that curb weight disadvantage. If you use the 'ludicrous' mode, you will dramatically decrease the range available on the charge. Use it repeatedly, combined with their 'supercharger' recharging, and you will decrease the capacity and life of the battery.
My neighbor was anxious to show me his Tesla in 'Ludicrous' mode. It's impressive for a 5000 lb car. It ruined his day when I beat him with my (his words) "crotch rocket".
- Status
