Ditching 0W20?

[IndyFan]

Originally Posted by 69GTX
Originally Posted by IndyFan
Your Acura has a radiator and thermostat. It will run at the same operating temperature in southern CA as it would in Maine.............People used to believe most engine wear comes at startup.


And that radiator and thermostat won't do you much good in a Maine winter at -30 deg F. Then you do need the 0w-20 oil. In California? Never. And this of course assumes your radiator and thermostat are working at 100%. What happens as both age? How about a 100 deg F day in Sunny California bumper to bumper freeway traffic. The 0W-20 oil isn't the best choice for that.

Most engine wear does come at startup/engine warmup.....until engine oil temp reaches approx 160-175 degF. That could take a while depending on your engine rpms and ambient temps, Startup or Warmup....it's the same thing....engine wear/corrosion.


That 0w20 does just fine in 100 degree weather and traffic in a properly functioning engine. I've done it. It'll turn around and do just fine in 30 below weather, too.

When everyone starts running 0w16, you guys will then see 0w20 as a thick oil. It's a slippery slope! (Pun Intended!)

 

[69GTX]

Originally Posted by CT8
So many people read and believe Dr Hass oil 101.


And fortunately, BITOG recently upgraded Motor Oil University to update a lot of that mythology. Though unfortunately, a lot of that mythology was copied into numerous internet posts....and still lives so that others can get confused.

 

[aquariuscsm]

Originally Posted by IndyFan
Do a UOA and then run a 5w20 or 5w30 for the same interval and do another UOA, then compare.


This is what I'm going to do with my Accord. December will be oil change time and I have a Blackstone kit sitting next to me to send in my sample of QSUD 5W20. I'll see what the results look like to determine if I'll switch to a 30wt or keep the 20wt. Seems Hondas of this vintage run uber smooth on thin oils. The Honda variant of the K24 was never specd for a 30. Original spec (first generation) was specd for a 5W20,and then back specd to a 0W20,which I see no reason whatsoever to use a 0W where I live. Only thing I may change is to use PP 5W20 just to compare to the QSUD 5W20. No rational reason except boredom with using the same oil haha

 

[69GTX]

Originally Posted by IndyFan
Originally Posted by 69GTX
Originally Posted by IndyFan
Your Acura has a radiator and thermostat. It will run at the same operating temperature in southern CA as it would in Maine.............People used to believe most engine wear comes at startup.


And that radiator and thermostat won't do you much good in a Maine winter at -30 deg F. Then you do need the 0w-20 oil. In California? Never. And this of course assumes your radiator and thermostat are working at 100%. What happens as both age? How about a 100 deg F day in Sunny California bumper to bumper freeway traffic. The 0W-20 oil isn't the best choice for that.

Most engine wear does come at startup/engine warmup.....until engine oil temp reaches approx 160-175 degF. That could take a while depending on your engine rpms and ambient temps, Startup or Warmup....it's the same thing....engine wear/corrosion.


That 0w20 does just fine in 100 degree weather and traffic in a properly functioning engine. I've done it. It'll turn around and do just fine in 30 below weather, too.

When everyone starts running 0w16, you guys will then see 0w20 as a thick oil. It's a slippery slope! (Pun Intended!)



That's the caveat, "a properly functioning engine." In other words, still at 100% of factory performance/design. Few cars on the road are at design engine parameters by 50K-100K miles. I prefer the added top engine protection in warm weather just in case something "unexpected" happens....like a water pump failure....or a thermostat that sticks closed or nearly so. Been there...done that. Things do happen. The driver in California doesn't need 30 below protection....their need is at 100-120 deg F. ambient temps. In fact, they will get better winter protection using a 5w or 10w oil - more protection at cold startup where viscosity and chemical layers are your only protection.

I only use 30 grade oils in all my cars...despite factory recommendations to run thinner. And I'll have the stash to run those weights for as long as I own them.

 

[dave1251]

Originally Posted by 69GTX
Originally Posted by IndyFan
Originally Posted by 69GTX
Originally Posted by IndyFan
Your Acura has a radiator and thermostat. It will run at the same operating temperature in southern CA as it would in Maine.............People used to believe most engine wear comes at startup.


And that radiator and thermostat won't do you much good in a Maine winter at -30 deg F. Then you do need the 0w-20 oil. In California? Never. And this of course assumes your radiator and thermostat are working at 100%. What happens as both age? How about a 100 deg F day in Sunny California bumper to bumper freeway traffic. The 0W-20 oil isn't the best choice for that.

Most engine wear does come at startup/engine warmup.....until engine oil temp reaches approx 160-175 degF. That could take a while depending on your engine rpms and ambient temps, Startup or Warmup....it's the same thing....engine wear/corrosion.


That 0w20 does just fine in 100 degree weather and traffic in a properly functioning engine. I've done it. It'll turn around and do just fine in 30 below weather, too.

When everyone starts running 0w16, you guys will then see 0w20 as a thick oil. It's a slippery slope! (Pun Intended!)



That's the caveat, "a properly functioning engine." In other words, still at 100% of factory performance/design. Few cars on the road are at design engine parameters by 50K-100K miles. I prefer the added top engine protection in warm weather just in case something "unexpected" happens....like a water pump failure....or a thermostat that sticks closed or nearly so. Been there...done that. Things do happen. The driver in California doesn't need 30 below protection....their need is at 100-120 deg F. ambient temps. In fact, they will get better winter protection using a 5w or 10w oil - more protection at cold startup where viscosity and chemical layers are your only protection.

I only use 30 grade oils in all my cars...despite factory recommendations to run thinner. And I'll have the stash to run those weights for as long as I own them.




In the catastrophic conditions you mentioned a 30 grade will not help. At 100K miles the car better be a lot closer to new specs then not or it's a really bad engineered car. I recommend 30 grade because in southern California a 30 provides a bit of leeway when the OP decides to WOT for a few passes.

 

[Patman]

Originally Posted by 69GTX



That's the caveat, "a properly functioning engine." In other words, still at 100% of factory performance/design. Few cars on the road are at design engine parameters by 50K-100K miles. I prefer the added top engine protection in warm weather just in case something "unexpected" happens....like a water pump failure....or a thermostat that sticks closed or nearly so. Been there...done that. Things do happen.


As I've mentioned here before, I overheated my Civic a couple of years ago, the water temperature hit 277F! I was running M1 AFE 0w20 at the time and the engine suffered no ill effects whatsoever. Besides, the difference in thickness between most 0w20s and most 5w30s is only going to be 1 or 2 cst at 100c. Do you really think that slight difference in viscosity will provide that much more protection when things go bad?

 

[CourierDriver]

Are these engines coming apart all over Ca?? Might want to find out why they use 0w20....could be an engineering thing,,IDK

 

[Kamele0N]

Originally Posted by Patman


As I've mentioned here before, I overheated my Civic a couple of years ago, the water temperature hit 277F! I was running M1 AFE 0w20 at the time and the engine suffered no ill effects whatsoever. Besides, the...


...besides a warped cylinder head

 

[philipp10]

Originally Posted by Bryanccfshr
You can run a 5-10w30 synthetic no problem.
Concerning startup wear, The oil pumps just as fast at startup, it is viscosity that protects parts solely until the oil is warmed up and the antiwear additives activate, I would disregard anyone who says thinner oils "flow faster"they all pump and flow at the speed the oil pump moves them, unless you are down to the minimum pumping temperature of the oil(you won't in California) this concern is moot.
This opens you up to many more oils. There are some great 5-10w30sanf 5-0w40s to try.

Then I have to ask.....do you KNOW more than the studies that have been performed kin engineering labs?

 

[philipp10]

"Few cars on the road are at design engine parameters by 50K-100K miles. "

Huh? The majority of the cars on the road 100k ARE at design parameters. Jeez they aren't delicate flowers here.

 

[PimTac]

Originally Posted by Kamele0N
Originally Posted by Patman


As I've mentioned here before, I overheated my Civic a couple of years ago, the water temperature hit 277F! I was running M1 AFE 0w20 at the time and the engine suffered no ill effects whatsoever. Besides, the...


...besides a warped cylinder head

He didn't say that. What is your point here?

 

[turnbowm]

Originally Posted by Patman
... Besides, the difference in thickness between most 0w20s and most 5w30s is only going to be 1 or 2 cst at 100c. Do you really think that slight difference in viscosity will provide that much more protection when things go bad?

Using Mobil 1 EP as an example, the viscosity @ 100C is 8.6 for the 0W20 vs 10.6 for the 5W30 which is a healthy 23% increase! That's like going from an A5/B5 (HTHS = 2.9min) to an A3/B4 (HTHS = 3..5min). Under adverse conditions, the difference could be important.

 

[Bryanccfshr]

Originally Posted by philipp10
Originally Posted by Bryanccfshr
You can run a 5-10w30 synthetic no problem.
Concerning startup wear, The oil pumps just as fast at startup, it is viscosity that protects parts solely until the oil is warmed up and the antiwear additives activate, I would disregard anyone who says thinner oils "flow faster"they all pump and flow at the speed the oil pump moves them, unless you are down to the minimum pumping temperature of the oil(you won't in California) this concern is moot.
This opens you up to many more oils. There are some great 5-10w30sanf 5-0w40s to try.

Then I have to ask.....do you KNOW more than the studies that have been performed kin engineering labs?



My goodness, appeal to authority much?
But if you are going to appeal to the "unquestionable" studies, reference them.

And remember, there is a difference between adequate and optimal.

You would not be able to cold start one and drive it if they were with any oil if variations and higher viscosity were negative.

 

[Yah-Tah-Hey]

Mobil I 0W-30 or 5W-30.

 

[Kamele0N]

Originally Posted by PimTac

He didn't say that. What is your point here?

My point here is...that a paper or a forum can whitstand anything

Untill reality strikes...

I have lost a serpentine belt once on a highway....

With a SHU 5w40 inside...engine was OK...but I warped my cylinder head instantly

 

[Patman]

Don't you think if I had a warped cylinder head I would have known by now? Obviously I don't, as it's been a long time and I've done UOAs since and it shows no coolant getting into the oil. Also, consumption hasn't increased since then, and the engine still runs as smooth as ever. So my point is, no harm was done, 0w20 protected the engine perfectly under that severely stressful situation.

 

[DirectRejection]

Originally Posted by Patman
Don't you think if I had a warped cylinder head I would have known by now? Obviously I don't, as it's been a long time and I've done UOAs since and it shows no coolant getting into the oil. Also, consumption hasn't increased since then, and the engine still runs as smooth as ever. So my point is, no harm was done, 0w20 protected the engine perfectly under that severely stressful situation.


I bet you cooled your Civic down just right, too.
And I am glad the AFE served you well, Sir.

 

[Patman]

Originally Posted by Direct_Rejection
Originally Posted by Patman
Don't you think if I had a warped cylinder head I would have known by now? Obviously I don't, as it's been a long time and I've done UOAs since and it shows no coolant getting into the oil. Also, consumption hasn't increased since then, and the engine still runs as smooth as ever. So my point is, no harm was done, 0w20 protected the engine perfectly under that severely stressful situation.


I bet you cooled your Civic down just right, too.
And I am glad the AFE served you well, Sir.


The overheating happened just as I was pulling into a parking garage before going to a baseball game, so I shut the engine down and it sat for at least 4 hours before I restarted it. I was quite worried at the time that I was going to have some sort of issue, but when I fired it up, it was business as usual. FWIW, the overheating was a result of my cooling fan not coming on, and I was stuck in traffic for a while and foolishly not paying attention to my dash. To this day the cooling fan will only work if I turn on the AC, so as long as I keep an eye on the gauge and hit the AC button, it's fine. Most of the time this car actually runs quite cool, normal operating temperature will go as low as 170 on the highway, even after driving for a long time.

 

[KCJeep]

Engineers did not go to 20's because they were optimal, but due to intense pressure to increase fuel economy, any how any way possible. That same pressure that has brought us junk CVT's, almost universally hated stop/start, and 9/10 speed transmissions that are constantly trying to lug the car down at low rpms (say LSPI).

 

[nascarnation]

I think the question always is, what problem is the OP trying to solve?
Of course in California, it's not going to rust out, so ultimate engine life may be a true consideration here.
But does this Honda engine have lube-related failure modes?
Would 15W50 weight oil and an oil pan heater (for startup) and a pre-lube accumulator and a superfine add-on filter move the failure point from 275,000 miles to 300,000 miles?