Delta Inherits DC9s

[Tremo]

Originally Posted By: zulu
Originally Posted By: outrun
Sorry was too late to edit, here is another sneaky vector on the topic.

CVG & MEM may be axed as hubs reducing "excess" capacity due to the proximity of CVG/MEM/DTW/MSP. If this becomes so then perhaps the RJ & short haul fleet can be a rearranged to allow for the phase-out the plane? Closing the hubs will take time and for the aircraft makers to deliver will mean more time and definite production delays. Stop Gap would be the only reasonable explanation.


We were just discussing this at work today. From the official inside channel, there is no news. My best personal guess is that MEM all but dissappears off the map. MSP becomes another STL debacle, and DTW/CVG sustain minor cutbacks. Too many of NWAs international flights originate out of DTW. CVG is a good central location and is very under-utilized by anybody but Delta/Comair.


The nice thing about CVG is it does NOT have the weather or crowding issues of ORD. I suspect MSP has ORD like weather problems in winter. However, CVG has already been cut back. Cutting it back more you might as well cut it out entirely. DL will have to retain hubs somewhere in order to handle all the NWA aircraft they are getting as well as the NWA traffic and routes. But I just cannot see CVG, MSP and DTW all 3 surviving. I agree MEM is likely toast. I think DL is effing-up by pulling out of the western states so much. Yeah, the flyover states don't offer much but California still has a LOT of traffic to be carried, and now it's all going to UA, AA and Southwest. And I hate frigging AA, their customer service is the worst.

 

[sparkplug]

Originally Posted By: Tremo
Originally Posted By: sparkplug
I don't like CRJ's at all. From a pilot and pax perspective the E170/90 are much better over all. I can't justify 3 hours in a CRJ. That's nuts.


I flew from ORD to CMH on a UA E170 and was amazed at how much more comfortable it was and how much bigger the overheads were compared to the [censored] CRJs.

I think 3 to 4+ hour RJ flights are coming. The newer and bigger 100 pax RJs (CRJ1000, E195) now seem to have coast to coast range, or very close to it. Wouldn't be too terrible on an E195, but would be miserable on a CRJ. I would not be surprised to see DL start flying RJs between ATL and smaller west coast airports such as RNO, OAK, SMF and SJC. *** has hppened? These flights used to fill 757s.


I flew home from Orlando and one of the legs was MCO-ORF on a ERJ-145. That was [censored]. They are really small.

 

[ViragoBry]

Originally Posted By: outrun
I worked for Delta at the DFW gates when they were still a hub. The downsizing of operations at terminal E meant the loss of many career and wonderful people. It also meant shutting down ASAs mini hub at the satellite terminal. Even though I am a dedicated Delta FF and my father is even a million miler I truly resent DL for doing this to DFW. MCO, LAX, LAS, HNL etc were all packed and profitable routes. DL handed the competition to AA and WN. I am confident DL will screw CVG soon.

Good luck getting future F upgrade seats, you are now competing with NW elite passengers for them. SM & GM medallion levels are becoming meaningless with all the PM and MMs out there.


I'm glad I read the writing on the wall about this. I was a flight attendant at ASA until 1997 when they sent all our ATR 72s back to Atlanta and left Dallas with nothing but Brasilias (with the promise of Canadairs on the horizon). I didn't have a problem with the Brasilia... my problem was that I was #47 in seniority and was holding 3-day weekends off every week...until they sent the ATRs away. That bumped 46 seniors down on top of me and I ended up where I started...flying a horrible line with overbooked flights every day. Something about that aircraft swap told me DFW was on the chopping block, and if I'd stayed around, I'd now be a Skywest employee flying out of ATL or SLC. NO thanks. I think Delta screwed up by pulling out of here. ASA was highly profitable at the DFW hub, which was money in Delta's pocket.

 

[Tremo]

Wow, I saw a photo of a 747 in Delta livery the other day.... Are they using those on NW flights now?

 

[Bill in Utah]

Yep, There are used on Delta "north".

 

[nthach]

Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
The 747 requires only TWO flight deck members. It is profitable if it is full. Delta will be using those on flights that have high yields.

I doubt you'll see Delta buy any Airbus products. The Airbuses that they are getting with the NW deal will remain for now. Once the 787 show up, expect some of the AB going on the block.

The DC-9 will be around along with the MD88 and MD90s (in fact I expect Delta to buy more MD-90s in the next few years)

All safe planes.

Take care, Bill

Only if said 747 is the 747-400 or -8 variant. The -100, -200, -300 series need a flight engineer, and they're not as efficient as the -400s since they use older engines. The -400s use the latest versions of GE's CF6-80C2, Rolls RB211 or P&W PW4000 series.

 

[Brons2]

Originally Posted By: zulu


You'd be AMAZED at what hops the pond nowadays. 757s seem to be more and more common nowadays. KLM even has a flight between Amsterdam and IAH in a 737-700! Pilot said they were 90min ETOPs certified. Talk about CRAMPED. I couldn't imagine ANY flight in a narrowbody jet for that long.


The IAH-AMS 737 flight is on a Boeing Business Jet (-700 fuselage with -800 wings) and is low density configured with 44 business class seats. Very comfortable. ETOPS180, there is no ETOPS90.

 

[Brons2]

Originally Posted By: zulu
I stand corrected (and dumbfounded)...

Here is one of the first DC-9s in new DAL widget colors

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Delta-Air-Lines/McDonnell-Douglas-DC-9-51/1451731/M/

What the [censored] are they thinking...


They're fully paid for, and fuel is not so expensive as it was before. Plus they don't really have anything else that is the same size as a DC9-32. It's bigger than the CRJ-700 or EMB-190 but smaller than the 737-700/A319.

Not to mention, the DC-9 is a very tough airframe and does not have lap joint issues like the 737 classics. Yes the steam gauges are outdated, but they do have FMC's. It's not quite as dramatic as one other poster stated where they use VOR navi only, they have been upgraded to comply with RVSM, which is required in the US now.

 

[Jimbo]

Originally Posted By: Brons2
Originally Posted By: zulu
I stand corrected (and dumbfounded)...

Here is one of the first DC-9s in new DAL widget colors

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Delta-Air-Lines/McDonnell-Douglas-DC-9-51/1451731/M/

What the [censored] are they thinking...


They're fully paid for, and fuel is not so expensive as it was before. Plus they don't really have anything else that is the same size as a DC9-32. It's bigger than the CRJ-700 or EMB-190 but smaller than the 737-700/A319.

Not to mention, the DC-9 is a very tough airframe and does not have lap joint issues like the 737 classics. Yes the steam gauges are outdated, but they do have FMC's. It's not quite as dramatic as one other poster stated where they use VOR navi only, they have been upgraded to comply with RVSM, which is required in the US now.


That airplane had a mallard painted on the tail long before it was Northwest red. N776NC, for North Central, which became Republic along with Hughes Air West and maybe some others, then merged into Northwest and now Delta. Will it end with only a "Big Three" US airlines, American, Delta and Southwest maybe?

Hughes Air West DC-9 livery:

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Hughes-Airwest/McDonnell-Douglas-DC-9-15RC/1476590/M/

"Top banana in the West"

 

[Tremo]

I've taken several Delta/NWA flights recently connecting in DTW. Lots of NWA planes painted in DL colors, but a lot still not. I've seen the DC9s in DL colors as well as a lot of Airbus. What I have not seen with my own eyes yet is a 747 in DL colors.

One thing, the NWA planes are boring as [censored] to ride in, they do not have any of the entertainment systems that DL has on their planes. I also asked a DL employee about the DC9s, and was told that they will be history. But OTOH, given my druthers between flying on an old DC9 or one of those cramped RJs, I'll take the DC9 any day.

What is going to happen with NWA's regional carrier Air Link?

Lasttime I was iin ATL, I saw a few Airbus at DL's maintenance hangars there.

 

[Silver02ex]

Originally Posted By: FowVay
I don't see Delta keeping the DC-9 or the B-747. Delta is filling their fleet with Embraer and Canadair regional jets to replace their MD-88 and MD-90 fleet. The DC-9 will join the other two airframes that are slated for extinction.



I'm a little late to respond to this but you will not see the DC-9 go away anytime soon. Matter of fact Delta is pulling more DC-9 that has been parked and been using them. The CRJ-900 and E-Jet that's on property right now is it. You will not see anymore unless Delta pilots cave in on scope protection like they did in early 2000 (which i don't see it happen in the future). which will allow more 76+ seat jets being flow by regionals. CRJ's and E-190 will not be a direct replacement for the DC-9. That's one of the reason the DC-9's are still around

 

[Silver02ex]

Originally Posted By: Tremo

What is going to happen with NWA's regional carrier Air Link?

.


We are now "Delta Connection" 15+ airplanes have been painted in the new Delta colors so far. I'll miss the silver NWA paint job.

 

[Tremo]

Well I gotta be honest. Given my 'druthers between flying on a DC9 versus an RJ, I'll take the DC9. MUCH more comfortable.

With that said, the E170/190 aren't too bad, but the CRJs are just too durn cramped. ditto the 145s.

Have any of the NWA A330s been repainted yet?

 

[Bill in Utah]

Agree with you. I'd rather be in a DC9 over a RJ.

Yes they have repainted them. Here is a shot...

Airbus A330 photo (click on the link since its copyrighted.)

Take care, bill

 

[Silver02ex]

Originally Posted By: Tremo

With that said, the E170/190 aren't too bad, but the CRJs are just too durn cramped. ditto the 145s.


It still beats sweating in a Saab with no APU. It's a good thing the DC-9 are paid off, with a fuel burn of 3 times more than a CRJ that's the only reason they are still around. I alway shake my head when I'm sitting up front, and someone board and say how small an RJ is but they only paid $100 for their ticket.

 

[Tremo]

Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
Agree with you. I'd rather be in a DC9 over a RJ.

Yes they have repainted them. Here is a shot...

Airbus A330 photo (click on the link since its copyrighted.)

Take care, bill


I'm not a big fan of A330s. Seats seem to be small and jammed together really close. I've flown a couple times on Dragon Air between HKG and BLR, and it's miserable.

 

[bar1]

Originally Posted By: Tremo

I'm not a big fan of A330s. Seats seem to be small and jammed together really close. I've flown a couple times on Dragon Air between HKG and BLR, and it's miserable.

A330 is "better" than it's "rival" B767 when it comes to space.

 

[dkryan]

If, as Tremo says, the A330 seats "seem to be small and jammed together really close.....," how can the B767 be worse?

Being a 172 driver and keeping up on all things aviation related, everyone in Cincy except the Airport Director has accepted the fact that Delta will continue to "downsize" their presence at CVG until they have 100 or so daily flights. This is down from 460+ or better (including Comair) arrivals and departures each day.

The direct flights to London and Frankfurt are gone. The direct to Paris is still around, for now.

To utilize those three parallel runways and nice terminal, CVG needs to bring in AirTran and/or Southwest. Otherwise, we'll win for the most under-utilized airport in America.

I'm sorry to hear about AA's customer service. I'm on a morning flight to London out of ORD on an AA flight in a couple of weeks. Unfortunately, while the return to JFK is a Delta 767, JFK to CVG gets me 2.75 hours on a Comair regional jet.

 

[Tremo]

Bar, I know the A330 is a bigger overall airplane than a 767, but so what? I stand by my comment that on the Dragon Air flights, the seats seem to be really small and really close together. It's seat size and spacing I'm talking about, not the size of the durn airplane. Maybe some other carrier equips them with bigger seats with more space? Who knows. since Dragon Air is based in HKG, and the locals are not real big prople, maybe it is not a problem for them.

DKR, man, last time I was in CVG, it was like a ghost town. I remember a few years back when it was crowded. Not any more. The DL terminal there is nice. What a waste. However, when you compare CVG to DTW, DTW wins. The NWA (now DL) terminal there is just as nice and much bigger. Most of my DL flights now have been through DTW since I fly to NY and new england a lot.

The problem with CVG is it is really just a hub airport. Not that many people want to fly to/from CVG as a start or end destination. People just change planes there. Yeah, you need Air Tran or Southwest.

What happened to all the Comair aircraft? All those CRJs?

 

[dkryan]

Tremo,

Comair is still around, albeit in a noticeably downsized mode. It was one of the best performing stocks I had owned in the early 90s until Delta decided to buy Comair and use them as their sole "feeder" into CVG to fill their Boeings.

Delta now has several "Delta Connection" carriers at CVG (Republic flagged RJs). Most of their Comair flying originates at JFK, though they just cut a few hundred Comair jobs at JFK.

I have not flown through DFW in a lot of years. When Delta was "on their game," there was no need to do so. Nowadays, I might be forced through SLC if I cannot get a direct flight to SAN, SFO, of SEA, but DFW (though I love the Cowboys) would have to be a destination, not a "pass through," for me.

Most of us in the greater Cincy area (including us private pilots) recognize the need for a consistent, quality carrier. The task is trying to get the airport director to quit watching DL's version of "The Emperor's New Clothes" whenever he speaks to ATL.