Delo 15W40 8,070 miles Honda ST1100

[Rick_A]

1999 Honda ST1100
Water-cooled V4
Shared engine/trans. oil, wet clutch

Blackstone Labs

Oil...............Delo 15W-40...Delo15W40....Delo15W40
Filter............PL14610........PL14610........PL14610
Total Miles....60,030.........62,068..........65,033
Miles on oil....3,067..........5,105............8,070
Time on Oil.....1 ½ mon.......2 ½ mon.......3 1/2 mon
Make up oil......0.............0..................0

Aluminum.........5.............10...............11
Chromium.........1.............1................1
Iron................13............23..............27
Copper............2.............3...............4
Lead...............2.............3...............3
Tin.................0.............2...............0
Moly..............223...........231...........231
Nickel.............0.............0...............0
Manganese......0.............0..............0
Silver..............0.............0..............0
Titanium..........0.............0..............0
Potassium........0.............2..............0
Boron..............90...........87............74
Silicon.............11...........14............13
Sodium.............2.............5..............5
Calcium............3428........3191.........3471
Magnesium........10...........12............10
Phosphorus.......1272........1189.........1211
Zinc.................1391.........1399........1499
Barium.............0...............0..............0
Flashpoint F......420...........405...........405
Fuel................ Antifreeze........0.0............0..............0
Water.............0.0............0..............0
Insoluables......0.1...........0.2.............0.1
SUS [email protected]
TBN.................7.7 ..........6.8............5.4

Comments:
PL14610 is a Purolator automotive oil filter
No oil additives used. FP60 in the gas. Wear metals still building up slowly.
The viscosity is creeping up a bit and the TBN is still good.
Hmmmm, looks like this oil could go even longer, how about a 10,000 mile oil change?
No, I changed it this time, I am running the German Castrol 0W30 this fill. I'll post that
UOA in a couple of months

 

[Titan]

WOW! Why would you want to go to GC 0w-30? Delo costs next to nothing in comparison, and I can't imagine better numbers from the GC.

 

[Reg# 43897]

Right on! GC! You are doing what I am considering. I anxiously await your results. Get out there and ride, my friend. Unfortunately, I am considering the annual winterisation of the steeds a little earlier than usual. Fall has come on a little cooler than usual with a particularly hard frost this A.M. to boot.

By the way, this UOA is fantastic for sure! This oil is one of the greats for bikes. I also use that filter and pick one up when I am in America. And Japanese motorcycle engine technology and engineering is arguably the best on the planet.

Ride on! And thanks.

John.

 

[Gurkha]

Looks like Delo takes good to the gears, doesn't shear down like others, I have it in my RC45 as well as my MB tranny where ATF is recommended.

 

[fuel tanker man]

Let me be the first to predict that the GC will show higher copper and lead numbers, and GC fans will say it's because it was "cleaning up" after the Delo.

Great report, thanks for sharing it.

Dan

 

[Jim]

This once again shows that the performance of oil seems to improve with age. This is an outstanding report that shows HDEO performs as well or better than the so called motorcycle oils. I guess the moly really does help!

 

[DaveJ]

I have said this about 15W40 HEDO's in many other posts but a UOA is worth a hundred posts. I had 0ver 85K miles on a Suzby 78 GS750N using just Delo or Rotella 15W40. I like HEDO's so much I pour them on my Corn Flakes

. DaveJ

 

[whiplash]

There was or is a guy on the crb1000 forum who is a tech for an oil lab in TX and he say that in all his testing on diesel engines the delo out performs any other oil made This guy is suppose to be legit as other board members know him and where he works.
So my question is has anyone had any clutch slippage problems with the moly in the Delo? I don't know if 230 ppm would be enough to cause problems.
I also see that Delo is now cj-4 rated, has there been an VOA on the new stuff to see if they have changed any of the ingredients?

 

[TimVipond]

A 0W30 car oil will likely make your wet clutch slip. Not worth it. Honda is supposed to be comming out with a 30wt JASO MA motorcycle oil. Amsoil already has a JASO MA/MB Small Engine oil with great specs that might be worth a try.

 

[whiplash]

That's not what I asked.

 

[TimVipond]

I was providing input for those inquiring about GC 0W30.

I did have clutch slippage with Rotella SB.

CJ-4 is indeed a different formulation. Less ash, lower TBN to name a few. At least one here is experimenting with it in bikes that have no contact with the motor oil.

 

[arkainzeye]

how did the zinc & calc increase with age and mileage if No makeup oil was added? i was curious about this...

 

[Reg# 43897]

Rotella SB is definitely NOT for wet clutches. I have used Delo as a break-in oil in bikes and never has ANY clutch slippage whatsoever. I have heard about people using GC as a bike oil with a wet clutch but never got the straight goods. If somebody tries it and posts good results, I would be inclined to use it, too.

John.

 

[sunruh]

GC is one of the few oils that passed my test. fwiw.
stayed in grade for the entire Gator Bait Enduro.

 

[Rick_A]

Whiplash, I’ve been using Delo 15W40 or Shell Rotella RTS 5W40 for several years and thousands of miles in my ST1100 without any clutch problems. The bike has about 72,000 miles on it now so it’s just about broken-in
I also use the Delo or Rotella in my 1979 Yamaha and both of my off-road ATVs. With no clutch problems in any of my bikes so far.
The ST1100 has about 7,000 miles on the GC 0W30 now and I should be sending in an oil analysis next month so keep an eye out for that report.

Rick

 

[whiplash]

Thanks...thats good to hear. I may try the Delo 15W-40 in my RC51 when I change it again.

 

[Reg# 43897]

The breath be baited...

 

[Jaybird]

Quote:

---

A 0W30 car oil will likely make your wet clutch slip. Not worth it. Honda is supposed to be comming out with a 30wt JASO MA motorcycle oil. Amsoil already has a JASO MA/MB Small Engine oil with great specs that might be worth a try.

---

Tim,
Just what makes you think that a 0w-30 oil will likely make a wet clutch slip? Do you have anything besides hearsay and opinion that would back up this claim?
Just what is in these 0w-30 oils that will most likely cause a wet clutch to slip? Heck, let's talk specifically the GC 0w-30.

It seems that no matter what forum it's on, or in what venue, it never fails that someone just can't resist warning everyone about the dreaded "clutch slip" that can so often occur...when the cold hard reality is that these folks, who go out of their way to warn us agains these oils, have more than likely never experienced any clutch slippage from any oil at all. None that can truely be attributed to the engine oil as a direct cause.
Most each and every time anyone experiences clutch failures it is "likely", to coin a term, due to a mechanical issue.

Let's be real honest here. Could it be that you base your cautions more in keeping with a sales agenda, rather than having some insight on this issue and feeling it's your duty to pass on this warning?
Maybe you have a stake in folks believing that JASO certification is some sort of assurance of a quality oil?
(which of course it's not)

I may sound a bit testy...but it is really tiring to see this warning put out there ad infinium(pun intended) without one person providing any solid evidence that the warning is actually valid. Any time I have witnessed a clutch failure first hand, it has always been due to a mechainical issue where a component was out of mfg spec. Sure, the oil gets blamed right off the bat...and why not with so many thousands of folks warning us constantly?

Please don't say that the 2ppm moly in GC is the culprit.
Or maybe the 80ppm Mo in M1?

 

[TimVipond]

I've had 2 clutches that needed early replacement due to clutch slipping and I believe it was due to the truck oils I was using at the time. This was around 1999 when API came out with SJ oils and JASO came out with their MA standards. Some motorcycle manufacturers came out with service bulletings (BMW was one) that prohibited the use of API SJ oils as they did not meet wet clutch and transmission requirements.

Ask any motorcycle manufacturer if they recommend car oils and they will say no, except maybe in an emergency, and then they recommend changing back to a motorcycle oil. Ask any oil manufacturer if they recommend/warranty their car/truck oils for motorcycles and they will say no.

Go to the API website and search for JASO or motorcycle oil. There is at least one paper I purchased that showed the friction levels for JASO MA, JASO MB and non JASO oils. The measurements could easily be put on 3 seperate curves. I think if your goal (like mine) is to keep your motorcycle for over 100,000 miles (and I do), then you should consider using oils designed for your bike. I'm not going to recommend using 0W30 energy conserving car oils for motorcycles that spec 10W40 or 20W50 JASO motorcycle oils. Honda and AMSOIL have 30 weight oils that meet JASO specs for motorcycles that are begining to spec those oils, so why not use them? They at least are doing the research and testing for motorcycles. The car/truck oils do not.

Many motorcycle oils contain low levels of certain molys, and yet they meet JASO MA, so that is not the problem.

 

[Jaybird]

Some mfgs may recommend JASO certified oil, but that is only because a JASO oil has gone through the frictional testing. That for sure doesn't say that other oils will not pass the frictional criteria.
I don't think you can produce one mfg that says they require a JASO certified oil of any flavor be used.
Most all motorcycel mfgs make recommendations either to cover their butts, or to boost sales of a sponsored product...like Honda oils and Honda, and Motorex oils with KTM.

And I am not asking what dealers and oil mfgs tell us, they have agendas that go past what and why we would ask. To think otherwise is naive.

I won't use high-dollar boutique oils such as Amsoil or Honda because there are plenty of oils on the shelf for FAR less money that will do the job as good or better than those elevated priced oils.

You may have the perception that the motorcycle guys are the ones testing all the time, but in reality it is the auto oil folks that are constantly testing and reformulating. The standards for PCMOS is increasingly more stringent with each new certification. The JASO standards are meager at best. Most of the moto specific oils on the market today are SG rated. An outdated and deleted standard, Btw.

I still want you to tell me what the problem really is?
You claim that some oils are going to make our clutches slip, but have nothing to offer as to why?
Or is it that perhaps there really isn't the problem that conventional wisdom and dealership mythology would state?

Btw.. The latest revision of JASO is the T904:2006 which groups oils into four different frictional catagories, none of which are non-JASO. You can get those standards for free.