[Cut Open] Honda 15400-PLM-A02 (Fram) - Virgin

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: CR94
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
... Lots of filters these days don't use metal end caps ... some don't even have end caps, but instead glue every single pleat end together to seal them.
True, and those are very unlikely to rip at the end of a pleat the way filters with end steel or plastic caps can, because there's less stress on the media. Good design!


Good design ... if they do a 100% good job at gluing the pleats on both ends.

 

[DuckRyder]

I am going to do another post taking a closer look, but a few observations:

This filter has a metal seam clamp that neither the TG or EG have.

This filter has one more pleat than a TG and quite a few more than a EG.

The dot on top of this media is green, the EG and TG are both black. (no idea if this means anything at all)

I can find no evidence the can is thicker, admittedly I am trying to measure with an inexpensive caliper which is not to tool for the job, but its very repeatable across all the Fram manufactured cans I have here. I wish I had a micrometer with points but I don’t. I will try to get the regular micrometer running (giving an error code)

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: DuckRyder
I can find no evidence the can is thicker, admittedly I am trying to measure with an inexpensive caliper which is not to tool for the job, but its very repeatable across all the Fram manufactured cans I have here. I wish I had a micrometer with points but I don’t. I will try to get the regular micrometer running (giving an error code).


Just carefully straighten out the can enough by hand to use a regular micrometer on it.

 

[DuckRyder]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: DuckRyder
I can find no evidence the can is thicker, admittedly I am trying to measure with an inexpensive caliper which is not to tool for the job, but its very repeatable across all the Fram manufactured cans I have here. I wish I had a micrometer with points but I don’t. I will try to get the regular micrometer running (giving an error code).


Just carefully straighten out the can enough by hand to use a regular micrometer on it.


You don’t give me too much credit do you? Seems a bit obvious...

At any rate it is less than an ideal solution, but they all come out right around 6ga. That includes some non-7317 Ultras.

 

[goodtimes]

If you have a ball bearing around, or get one at a hardware store, you can get a more accurate measurement using any standard micrometer or even caliper. Knowing the ball diameter and using it on the inside, as I'm sure you know. A Chinese tubing micrometer is about $25 on Amazon. No electronics to worry about. I have a Mitutoyo and a Starrett ball end micrometer, they show about .013" +/- .0005" for all the three consumer Frams. With paint on. I guess about .012" without paint. Someday I want to clean the paint off with acetone to get a better measurement.

https://www.amazon.com/Anytime-Tools-Mic...tube+micrometer

 

[DuckRyder]

Now that is an idea... stand by a while and I will give it a shot...

 

[DuckRyder]

So I do have a ball bearing and a digital micrometer, so I measured the ball, zeroed the mic and measured the cans of the TG and EG 7317, 3 different Ultras (8A, 3600 and 4967) and the A02. I then checked the bearing again to verify still zero.

My measurements on the Frams agree with goodtimes ~0135 the A02 pretty constantly ~.0151 - .0153.

So I had my decimal off earlier too...

Using this:

https://www.unc.edu/~rowlett/units/scales/sheetmetal.html

It appears the A02 may in fact be 10ga where the standard cans are 9ga?

I’m still not totally comfortable with the measurements but paint should not be more than a few mils and I did try to get the area that was only one color. Actually I have a mil gauge somewhere, I will see if I can find it.

 

[DuckRyder]

And darnit I still have my decimal off...

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: DuckRyder
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: DuckRyder
I can find no evidence the can is thicker, admittedly I am trying to measure with an inexpensive caliper which is not to tool for the job, but its very repeatable across all the Fram manufactured cans I have here. I wish I had a micrometer with points but I don’t. I will try to get the regular micrometer running (giving an error code).

Just carefully straighten out the can enough by hand to use a regular micrometer on it.


You don’t give me too much credit do you? Seems a bit obvious...


Just throwing it out there, not a mind reader.

 

[Motorking]

Originally Posted By: bbhero
What's wrong with the sure grip???

Does this cross with the Fram 7317??

Thank you for your work and pictures Robert. You add a lot of good information to this site.


All Honda cars made after 1995 have been superceeded to the 7317 size

 

[bbhero]

Hey Jay. Good to see ya on here. I have a Nissan Altima 3.5 VQ coupe. Funny thing... Fram lists the 6607 for my car and yet the 7317 obviously still fits/works just fine. And it used to be the 7317 for a long time until several years ago when that was changed.

I was just guessing the size of this Honda filter. And I thinking the size could have been just like the 7317. Glad I was correct.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: bbhero
Hey Jay. Good to see ya on here. I have a Nissan Altima 3.5 VQ coupe. Funny thing... Fram lists the 6607 for my car and yet the 7317 obviously still fits/works just fine. And it used to be the 7317 for a long time until several years ago when that was changed.

I was just guessing the size of this Honda filter. And I thinking the size could have been just like the 7317. Glad I was correct.


When I had a 2004 Altima with the 3.5 V6 I went through the same thing on the two filter size thing. At the time I was a Puro fanboy and notice Purolator in their lookup info changed their catalog from showing the long filter to the short filter. I called Purolator and their response was they changed it because Nissan recommend the short filter because there was a plastic splash guard close to the filter that "might contact" the longer filter if used. Yes, the longer filter was closer to the splash guard, but still an inch or more of air gap. I saw no issue so always used the longer filter.

If you dug back in my posts around 2012~2013 you might find the posts. Also, Sayjac was in some of those conversations if I recall.

 

[bbhero]

Yeah you are right about that. The splash guard on my Altima has been loosened a bit. Which.. is a good thing. But even once it settles back into it's normal resting spot there is clearance by about 2 inches or so on mine. Someone else loosened it before I got my car. First time I changed the oil in it at 40k miles the splash guard was easy to move out of the way. Which I was well pleased with. Now at 217k miles she's still rolling great.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: bbhero
Now at 217k miles she's still rolling great.

What year is your Altima? Mine was a 2004 and a nice car, I really liked it. You still on the original cam chain tensioners? That was the only main issue with some of the 3.5L V6 engines.

I got rid of mine a few years ago, and I did a search for the VIN awhile back and found it was in a salvage yard someplace in the Midwest. Poor thing was taken very good care of, then it ends up in a salvage yard ... probably wrecked. It was a pretty fast car for what it was.

 

[bbhero]

Mine is a 2008 at those 217k miles. Zero issues with the motor. Never been cracked open for anything. Oil changes by previous owner were really very good at short intervals. No burning oil, zero leaks, and zero strange noises coming from the motor. From the large oil fill hole it looks really super clean Zee0six. Still runs hard and quick. And you are right about it being a bit quick. My car has 270 hp which is not too shabby.

 

[ZeeOSix]

That's great you're getting that many miles out of it without any issues.

 

[DuckRyder]

A discussion about the center tubes started in another thread: Back in the spin on game...questions

Case being made on one hand that center tube should match end caps and on the other that it did not matter how short (paraphrased).

It is my belief that the leaf spring is designed so that it is a snug fit (note: witness marks) and that under spring pressure the fiber end plate creates a gasket between the parts to the extent that a minor gap in the center tube to end cap interface is not a factor. The ADBV has a similar feature on that end. I do believe that the center tube provides support for the media against the leaf spring pressure.

 

[Sayjac]

Straw man points/arguments aside (other thread), if a spin-on/canister filter has a center tube and the ends are designed to be covered by endcaps, they provide a seal between the dirty inlet side and the filtered oil outlet. The Fram fiber construction filters fit that description.

If the centertube end(s) become exposed at some point in the oci, then oil is in bypass. That is indisputable. As illustrated in the pics, the area of coverage of the centertube ends is very narrow. As I observe 'post use' dissections of fiber construction OFs those are the areas I want to see. While a pleat may not tear, distortion of the pleats can and do exert a pull on the endcap(s) in the center tube area. When I see the center tube exposed in areas adjacent to distorted pleats, I conclude that filter has been in bypass for some period of time. So result is the same as a tear. My .02

 

[goodtimes]

Does the gap go all the way around? Nice media and pleats shown, and the pleats seem to have held up against the spring pressure in this case. Unless the center tube is helping on the other side of the gap.
A Japanese company would apologize and say sorry for our error and your trouble sir, and then fix whatever needs fixing in technical operations, so it never happens again. All our fault. Increasingly our USA method is to get angry and look for excuses, blame the messenger, or not actually admitting any mistakes are shown at all. I would guess they are cranking these out for a few bucks each so it's not so easy for QC is the other side of it.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: DuckRyder
A discussion about the center tubes started in another thread: Back in the spin on game...questions

Case being made on one hand that center tube should match end caps and on the other that it did not matter how short (paraphrased).

It is my belief that the leaf spring is designed so that it is a snug fit (note: witness marks) and that under spring pressure the fiber end plate creates a gasket between the parts to the extent that a minor gap in the center tube to end cap interface is not a factor. The ADBV has a similar feature on that end. I do believe that the center tube provides support for the media against the leaf spring pressure.


This example shows a decent seal ring impression around the center tube hole in the end cap. Even where the center tube end gap is easily seen, there wasn't any more end cap material compression deformation besides where the sealing impression is ... so obviously the metal center tube isn't making or breaking the structural integrity of the media element when in compression from the leaf spring. Like I said in the other thread, it's not critical to have the end of the center tube up tight against the end cap, nor does it need to be glued to the end cap to work as designed.

Make the pleat spacing all loose and wide, and remove the center tube altogether and it might be a different story.