Corvette C6 Z06 oil for road racing/street
- Thread starter jlvink
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Hi,
buster - You said this:
"I would use M1 0w40. 15w50 is too thick for this engine."
Your suggestion is a very wise one - all aspects considered!
buster - You said this:
"I would use M1 0w40. 15w50 is too thick for this engine."
Your suggestion is a very wise one - all aspects considered!
Originally Posted By: jlvink
I almost put the M1 15W-50 on the list but was worried about two things;
* 15W & Cold starts - as I mentioned, it barely gets to 32F here and I typically don't head down the street until my oil is at 100F.
* 50W & will I get adequate oil flow at race temps of 230F-290F? Will I lose much power?
BTW, thanks for all of the great info you have been sharing.
John
I don't think you need to go up two grades either, but the reason I mentioned Mobil 1 15W50 because at least where I am it is inexpensive and readily available, and I was under the impression that you were going to be running in warm temperatures and racing with the oil getting very hot. And you wanted a street/track oil which Mobil 1 15W50 is. Consider though that some 0W40 can actually run as thick or thicker in high heat situations so I didn't think you would lose too much flow or HP over some 40 weights. That's the reason that I suggested it as an option a long with Rotella 5W40.
I almost put the M1 15W-50 on the list but was worried about two things;
* 15W & Cold starts - as I mentioned, it barely gets to 32F here and I typically don't head down the street until my oil is at 100F.
* 50W & will I get adequate oil flow at race temps of 230F-290F? Will I lose much power?
BTW, thanks for all of the great info you have been sharing.
John
I don't think you need to go up two grades either, but the reason I mentioned Mobil 1 15W50 because at least where I am it is inexpensive and readily available, and I was under the impression that you were going to be running in warm temperatures and racing with the oil getting very hot. And you wanted a street/track oil which Mobil 1 15W50 is. Consider though that some 0W40 can actually run as thick or thicker in high heat situations so I didn't think you would lose too much flow or HP over some 40 weights. That's the reason that I suggested it as an option a long with Rotella 5W40.
I saw this post in another section of this forum. What does he mean when he says the M1 0W-40 has a lot of shear? I assume this is not good?
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showthreaded&Number=1692783
John
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showthreaded&Number=1692783
John
Shearing refers to the oil becoming thinner due to mechanical or chemical stress. Mobil 1 0w-40 gained a reputation for doing that. It didn't seem to hurt the performance of the oil but let's just say people had their opinions about it. It sort of became its own meme, if you know what I mean.
It's not really a surprise either way, honestly. 0w-40 represents a huge viscosity index, and a higher VI very often means less resistance to shearing. Castrol TWS 10w-60 sometimes does the same thing in BMW M engines.
Recent UOAs on Mobil 1 0w-40 don't seem to show as much shearing as they used to, though. If they do, there always seems to be some evidence to suspect (and/or not enough evidence to rule out) fuel dilution, which would be a problem with any oil...
It's not really a surprise either way, honestly. 0w-40 represents a huge viscosity index, and a higher VI very often means less resistance to shearing. Castrol TWS 10w-60 sometimes does the same thing in BMW M engines.
Recent UOAs on Mobil 1 0w-40 don't seem to show as much shearing as they used to, though. If they do, there always seems to be some evidence to suspect (and/or not enough evidence to rule out) fuel dilution, which would be a problem with any oil...
When you're at the track and your oil temp is nearly 300 and climbing you may find a purpose built track oil to be the best bet.
I wouldn't knock the Dominator, a lot of WINNERS use it!
And it's available in a lighter grade as well if you don't want the broad band of protection that the 15w-50 gives.
I wouldn't knock the Dominator, a lot of WINNERS use it!
And it's available in a lighter grade as well if you don't want the broad band of protection that the 15w-50 gives.
Quite a difference from the Corvette but I have a 2000 Ford ZX2SR that is my daily driver(mostly) and I have been running it in track days since new.
I have used the Amsoil 0W30 signature series (SSO) oil exclusively for 73000 miles. No problems at all.
I change it once a year, 8-9K miles.
I have used the Amsoil 0W30 signature series (SSO) oil exclusively for 73000 miles. No problems at all.
I change it once a year, 8-9K miles.
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
When you're at the track and your oil temp is nearly 300 and climbing you may find a purpose built track oil to be the best bet.
I wouldn't knock the Dominator, a lot of WINNERS use it!
And it's available in a lighter grade as well if you don't want the broad band of protection that the 15w-50 gives.
Agreed.
When you're at the track and your oil temp is nearly 300 and climbing you may find a purpose built track oil to be the best bet.
I wouldn't knock the Dominator, a lot of WINNERS use it!
And it's available in a lighter grade as well if you don't want the broad band of protection that the 15w-50 gives.
Agreed.
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
When you're at the track and your oil temp is nearly 300 and climbing you may find a purpose built track oil to be the best bet.
I wouldn't knock the Dominator, a lot of WINNERS use it!
And it's available in a lighter grade as well if you don't want the broad band of protection that the 15w-50 gives.
OK. I have added two possibilities to my list based on several of you suggesting it including Mechanix;
* Amsoil Dominator 15-W50
* Mobil 1 15-W50
I need to get an idea of their viscosities at 250F and their "street friendly" properties in order to compare.
John
When you're at the track and your oil temp is nearly 300 and climbing you may find a purpose built track oil to be the best bet.
I wouldn't knock the Dominator, a lot of WINNERS use it!
And it's available in a lighter grade as well if you don't want the broad band of protection that the 15w-50 gives.
OK. I have added two possibilities to my list based on several of you suggesting it including Mechanix;
* Amsoil Dominator 15-W50
* Mobil 1 15-W50
I need to get an idea of their viscosities at 250F and their "street friendly" properties in order to compare.
John
As far as I know, the Amsoil Dominator 'racing' oils still contain at least some detergent additives, and certainly more than other companies' pure 'race oils'.
But maybe Pablo or some other Amsoil pro can chime in to affirm (or deny) that statement?
But maybe Pablo or some other Amsoil pro can chime in to affirm (or deny) that statement?
Originally Posted By: jlvink
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
When you're at the track and your oil temp is nearly 300 and climbing you may find a purpose built track oil to be the best bet.
I wouldn't knock the Dominator, a lot of WINNERS use it!
And it's available in a lighter grade as well if you don't want the broad band of protection that the 15w-50 gives.
OK. I have added two possibilities to my list based on several of you suggesting it including Mechanix;
* Amsoil Dominator 15-W50
* Mobil 1 15-W50
I need to get an idea of their viscosities at 250F and their "street friendly" properties in order to compare.
John
Well according to the Mobil 15W50 data sheet, it's pretty thick. Maybe thicker than needed. But that might be what you want at 250F to error on the side of caution:
Mobil 1 15W50
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
When you're at the track and your oil temp is nearly 300 and climbing you may find a purpose built track oil to be the best bet.
I wouldn't knock the Dominator, a lot of WINNERS use it!
And it's available in a lighter grade as well if you don't want the broad band of protection that the 15w-50 gives.
OK. I have added two possibilities to my list based on several of you suggesting it including Mechanix;
* Amsoil Dominator 15-W50
* Mobil 1 15-W50
I need to get an idea of their viscosities at 250F and their "street friendly" properties in order to compare.
John
Well according to the Mobil 15W50 data sheet, it's pretty thick. Maybe thicker than needed. But that might be what you want at 250F to error on the side of caution:
Mobil 1 15W50
Originally Posted By: jlvink
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
When you're at the track and your oil temp is nearly 300 and climbing you may find a purpose built track oil to be the best bet.
I wouldn't knock the Dominator, a lot of WINNERS use it!
And it's available in a lighter grade as well if you don't want the broad band of protection that the 15w-50 gives.
OK. I have added two possibilities to my list based on several of you suggesting it including Mechanix;
* Amsoil Dominator 15-W50
* Mobil 1 15-W50
I need to get an idea of their viscosities at 250F and their "street friendly" properties in order to compare.
John
Viscosity calculator:
http://www.widman.biz/Seleccion/Viscosidad/Conversiones/Graph/graph.html
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
When you're at the track and your oil temp is nearly 300 and climbing you may find a purpose built track oil to be the best bet.
I wouldn't knock the Dominator, a lot of WINNERS use it!
And it's available in a lighter grade as well if you don't want the broad band of protection that the 15w-50 gives.
OK. I have added two possibilities to my list based on several of you suggesting it including Mechanix;
* Amsoil Dominator 15-W50
* Mobil 1 15-W50
I need to get an idea of their viscosities at 250F and their "street friendly" properties in order to compare.
John
Viscosity calculator:
http://www.widman.biz/Seleccion/Viscosidad/Conversiones/Graph/graph.html
Sidney, thanks for the link! I know those are "generic" viscositys but it is still very helpful.
John
John
Why is everyone acting as if this is a race car? THe Zo6 has decent HP but anything good quality synthetic 10w-30 or 40WT will do the job regardless. I don't know many folks running HDEO oils in their auto X or drag cars
Maybe it a west coast thing.
To the OP- Did you ever call Dave at Redline Oil. He has more knowledge than most here, no offense. Especially since there are variances from one product to another. I have been using their 10w-40, but my car is making about twice the amount yours is and is drag raced primarily.
To the OP- Did you ever call Dave at Redline Oil. He has more knowledge than most here, no offense. Especially since there are variances from one product to another. I have been using their 10w-40, but my car is making about twice the amount yours is and is drag raced primarily.
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I meant to say "dedicated race car".
Originally Posted By: AzFireGuy79
Why is everyone acting as if this is a race car? THe Zo6 has decent HP but anything good quality synthetic 10w-30 or 40WT will do the job regardless. I don't know many folks running HDEO oils in their auto X or drag cars
Maybe it a west coast thing.
It is the oil aeration(or is that only an LS3?) and pressure loss associated with high lateral G's in this application that taxes the lubricant.
Why is everyone acting as if this is a race car? THe Zo6 has decent HP but anything good quality synthetic 10w-30 or 40WT will do the job regardless. I don't know many folks running HDEO oils in their auto X or drag cars
It is the oil aeration(or is that only an LS3?) and pressure loss associated with high lateral G's in this application that taxes the lubricant.
Az, you are right, it is not a dedicated race car but that does not necessarily reduce the level of punishment on the motor when I am racing it. The difference between your drag race application and my road race application is that I am running much higher temperatures. If everything else was equal you will typically see a higher oil pressure to keep the crank off the journals because your temperatures are lower. Counteracting that is that you are running more horsepower, so you need more oil pressure. The challenge for road racing oils is that you need good flow to reduce temperatures and you also need good pressure to protect your bearings.
I am leaning towards a 5W-40 or 10W-40 oil as well. Thanks for the suggestion to give Dave a call, I think I'll do that.
John
I am leaning towards a 5W-40 or 10W-40 oil as well. Thanks for the suggestion to give Dave a call, I think I'll do that.
John
Buster, what is the trade-off for POE vs. diester based oils?
John
John
This is taken from one of Molakules writings on Esters. Hopefully he will chime in as he is the authority on this subject.
"Polyols - SPE's, PE's, TMP's, TME's, and NPG's. Three or more shortchain but fat molecules. Polyols are generally more oxidative and thermally stable by 50 C over diesters and 150 C over petroleum oils. These esters have lower coefficients of friction than either diesters or PAO's" .
"By adding a polyol ester at least 5-10% to a PAO or mineral oil reduces base oil friction remarkably. So esters are natural Friction Modifiers".
"Polyols - SPE's, PE's, TMP's, TME's, and NPG's. Three or more shortchain but fat molecules. Polyols are generally more oxidative and thermally stable by 50 C over diesters and 150 C over petroleum oils. These esters have lower coefficients of friction than either diesters or PAO's" .
"By adding a polyol ester at least 5-10% to a PAO or mineral oil reduces base oil friction remarkably. So esters are natural Friction Modifiers".
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