"Consumer Reports ranks Toyota, Lexus most reliable, Mercedes worst"

[PimTac]

I think there is confusion between build quality and reliability. One might think that both go hand in hand but sometimes that doesn’t work that way.

I’m sure a BMW is built stronger than my Mazda for example. However, after five years I have had zero problems with the Mazda. I can say the same thing about Toyota and Mitsubishi as well with the experiences I’ve had with those brands.

 

[TiGeo]

I think there is confusion between build quality and reliability. One might think that both go hand in hand but sometimes that doesn’t work that way.

I’m sure a BMW is built stronger than my Mazda for example. However, after five years I have had zero problems with the Mazda. I can say the same thing about Toyota and Mitsubishi as well with the experiences I’ve had with those brands.

This...again....how "reliability" is defined is important here and is so subjective. Toyota is 100% a v. reliable brand and always has been but of course nobody is 100% so you will find issues. I just choose to enjoy the driving experience over dated tech and uber-reliability.

 

[edyvw]

Wait...aren’t you the guy that owned a Toyota Sienna and opened your tailgate into your bike rack (or something)...ruined your tailgate...then were quoted thousands to repair...decided to have some dude down the street “fix it” for $500 bucks, a ratchet and some spray paint. Thing never closed right again. Blamed to Toyota. And now you’re an expert on Toyota? Isn’t that you?

Oh, and didn’t you feel that your brakes were “squishy”...decided to replace your brake booster. And that must mean all Toyota’s suck? I remember this because you’ve repeated this stuff several times, here, and actually on Toyota forums. You are the official BMW spokesperson of the internet, and avid Toyota basher. So, you’re experience is HEAVILY FLAWED. Sorry.

None of this^^^ is normal. What might be “normal” is a Toyota owner driving their Toyota 300,000/400,000/500,000 plus, miles with minimal repair. That might be normal, because it’s actually happening. I’m 110,000 miles into my ownership of my 2016 Toyota Avalon. Repairs=0. Nothing. Not one single misfire, check engine light, rattle, squeak, oil usuals, failure. Nada. I also (beside my own ownership experience), work in the auto industry. I see cars everyday. I see the repairs, the failures. Toyota is the most reliable brand that I have ever seen. Most fun to own and drive?? Not by a long shot (although not having to fix a car is fun). They are appliances. But very reliable ones (compared to others). This is not opinion, this is fact.

1. It was not $500, it was $300. So get your numbers straight.
2. Spray paint? What spray paint? You are maybe confusing what you would do.
3. Closing the gate means it will hit something. Obviously, Toyota designed a gate that doesn’t stop at small resistance (it is not like people driving minivans are going to have kids running around and maybe have hands stuck there or something). So the gate got misaligned, which, based on a quick search on Google, would show you that it is a super common problem on this vehicle. So, local Toyota wanted $3,400 for that. Bcs. paying $3,400 for the gate that just touched the bike rack is perfectly normal. I mean, stuff that happens every day in this super, uber-reliable vehicle. Not only that, based on your post and especially @wag123 I should be proud to pay that money.
So yes, the guy fixed it as best as possible, bcs. this is how it looked before that, the famous Toyota quality:

4. I did not decide anything. The Master cylinder died. Asked a friend who had the same Sienna before I changed the cylinder whether he had anything like that happening to him, and his word: yeah. I was thinking: excellent, I do not have to chase down problems. And his words? "Ah, it does not bother me, but excellent vehicle." There is your CR respondent.

5. By the way, I also own a Toyota Prado diesel (Land Cruiser) in Europe, and besides really good off-roading capabilities (when the suspension is not collapsing) it is absolute junk.

6. You made 110,000 miles? WOW. I mean, no one made that feat. I made it on BMW 130,000, and I track the vehicle, and it is more reliable that that junk Sienna. Take that Avalon to track and it would collapse over itself. Not to mention leaking struts at 75k, brakes that are designed to drop kids to school and maybe work up to 55mph (in the left lane). Other than that, they start vibrating on little hint of aggressive driving.

7. I worked in the car industry too. So?

8. 300, 400, 500k? Do you think Toyota owners are the only people making that mileage? We are not at fault you guys don't know better. Have you ever taken a taxi ride in Europe in a Mercedes, VW, or BMW? I have a friend who tracks his 330i with almost 300k on the engine. So?

 

[edyvw]

Yes, he is that guy. He has been bashing Toyota products and insulting their owners relentlessly for several years, yet, after he sold his "terrible" Sienna, he ordered a new one. Go figure.

I did order. Whether I am getting it is in the air. The reason for that is that cars like Toyota are the same malarky, different package.

 

[edyvw]

I think there is confusion between build quality and reliability. One might think that both go hand in hand but sometimes that doesn’t work that way.

I’m sure a BMW is built stronger than my Mazda for example. However, after five years I have had zero problems with the Mazda. I can say the same thing about Toyota and Mitsubishi as well with the experiences I’ve had with those brands.

Actually, there is not. Toyota brakes, suspension parts etc. resemble their built quality. It is under-engineered bcs. they can get away with it, bcs. there are people like the above who will buy it, no questions asked. Makes business sense.

 

[doublebase]

1. It was not $500, it was $300. So get your numbers straight.
2. Spray paint? What spray paint? You are maybe confusing what you would do.
3. Closing the gate means it will hit something. Obviously, Toyota designed a gate that doesn’t stop at small resistance (it is not like people driving minivans are going to have kids running around and maybe have hands stuck there or something). So the gate got misaligned, which, based on a quick search on Google, would show you that it is a super common problem on this vehicle. So, local Toyota wanted $3,400 for that. Bcs. paying $3,400 for the gate that just touched the bike rack is perfectly normal. I mean, stuff that happens every day in this super, uber-reliable vehicle. Not only that, based on your post and especially @wag123 I should be proud to pay that money.
So yes, the guy fixed it as best as possible, bcs. this is how it looked before that, the famous Toyota quality:
View attachment 127374
View attachment 127375


4. I did not decide anything. The Master cylinder died. Asked a friend who had the same Sienna before I changed the cylinder whether he had anything like that happening to him, and his word: yeah. I was thinking: excellent, I do not have to chase down problems. And his words? "Ah, it does not bother me, but excellent vehicle." There is your CR respondent.

5. By the way, I also own a Toyota Prado diesel (Land Cruiser) in Europe, and besides really good off-roading capabilities (when the suspension is not collapsing) it is absolute junk.

6. You made 110,000 miles? WOW. I mean, no one made that feat. I made it on BMW 130,000, and I track the vehicle, and it is more reliable that that junk Sienna. Take that Avalon to track and it would collapse over itself. Not to mention leaking struts at 75k, brakes that are designed to drop kids to school and maybe work up to 55mph (in the left lane). Other than that, they start vibrating on little hint of aggressive driving.

7. I worked in the car industry too. So?

8. 300, 400, 500k? Do you think Toyota owners are the only people making that mileage? We are not at fault you guys don't know better. Have you ever taken a taxi ride in Europe in a Mercedes, VW, or BMW? I have a friend who tracks his 330i with almost 300k on the engine. So?

I’m very proud of you Lightning McQueen. That you track your car and all, but here’s the facts. You opened your tailgate into your bike rack (I’m sorry, I’m trying not to laugh as I write this) and then you blamed Toyota. And then Tony the Ratchet “fixed it”. Then you blamed Toyota. Then your brakes “felt squishy”, and you changed your brake booster...translation. There was nothing wrong with your vehicle, and you bought a new pair of shoes after putting in the brake booster, and it’s fixed! Yay!

Listen, please stop. I’m getting secondary embarrassment from you. And my car is pretty quick, not as quick as yours, but then again, you’ll beat me to the repair shop. Oh wait, you worked in the industry so you can fix it yourself. Except when Peter the Pry Bar needs to fix the tailgate that you closed on a bike rack. Hey, were you distracted thinking about your 1/4 mile times? Vroom vroom. Let me know when CR or any other rating system ranks Toyota out of the top five for reliability, and BMW above it. K?

 

[doublebase]

Actually, there is not. Toyota brakes, suspension parts etc. resemble their built quality. It is under-engineered bcs. they can get away with it, bcs. there are people like the above who will buy it, no questions asked. Makes business sense.

Wait?? You’re not serious? Bawahaha!! Thank you for this!! Under-engineered! Oh my lord! Thank you! That is hilarious. And yes, Toyota customers don’t ask questions, they’ll just buy it. Why, don’t you know...Toyota customers are some of the richest folk in the universe. Money is no object, they just lay that cash down and buy whatever they’re selling. Dumb folks too. Has nothing to do with historic reliability, it’s all a mirage.

Hey, how’s that bike rack doing? Can you fit on the BMW for track days? By the way, I also own a Mercedes, I’d track it, but it’s in the shop right now.

 

[edyvw]

I’m very proud of you Lightning McQueen. That you track your car and all, but here’s the facts. You opened your tailgate into your bike rack (I’m sorry, I’m trying not to laugh as I write this) and then you blamed Toyota. And then Tony the Ratchet “fixed it”. Then you blamed Toyota. Then your brakes “felt squishy”, and you changed your brake booster...translation. There was nothing wrong with your vehicle, and you bought a new pair of shoes after putting in the brake booster, and it’s fixed! Yay!

Listen, please stop. I’m getting secondary embarrassment from you. And my car is pretty quick, not as quick as yours, but then again, you’ll beat me to the repair shop. Oh wait, you worked in the industry so you can fix it yourself. Except when Peter the Pry Bar needs to fix the tailgate that you closed on a bike rack. Hey, were you distracted thinking about your 1/4 mile times? Vroom vroom. Let me know when CR or any other rating system ranks Toyota out of the top five for reliability, and BMW above it. K?

I didn’t open my tailgate into the bike rack.
Obviously you have reading comprehension issues. The corner of tailgate hit edge of tailgate closing. Obviously this needs to be repeated (though, unlike my 6 yrs old, you still have issues understanding it)

But, even if I did, it just show what kind of junk that is.
So, for you and those having problem understanding, again Toyota quality

:

 

[wag123]

I’m very proud of you Lightning McQueen. That you track your car and all, but here’s the facts. You opened your tailgate into your bike rack (I’m sorry, I’m trying not to laugh as I write this) and then you blamed Toyota. And then Tony the Ratchet “fixed it”. Then you blamed Toyota. Then your brakes “felt squishy”, and you changed your brake booster...translation. There was nothing wrong with your vehicle, and you bought a new pair of shoes after putting in the brake booster, and it’s fixed! Yay!

Listen, please stop. I’m getting secondary embarrassment from you. And my car is pretty quick, not as quick as yours, but then again, you’ll beat me to the repair shop. Oh wait, you worked in the industry so you can fix it yourself. Except when Peter the Pry Bar needs to fix the tailgate that you closed on a bike rack. Hey, were you distracted thinking about your 1/4 mile times? Vroom vroom. Let me know when CR or any other rating system ranks Toyota out of the top five for reliability, and BMW above it. K?

Although he didn't mention it, he must be burning mad about the very low reliability ranking of his beloved VW. This may actually be the reason for why he started ranting about Toyota to begin with.

 

[edyvw]

Wait?? You’re not serious? Bawahaha!! Thank you for this!! Under-engineered! Oh my lord! Thank you! That is hilarious. And yes, Toyota customers don’t ask questions, they’ll just buy it. Why, don’t you know...Toyota customers are some of the richest folk in the universe. Money is no object, they just lay that cash down and buy whatever they’re selling. Dumb folks too. Has nothing to do with historic reliability, it’s all a mirage.

Hey, how’s that bike rack doing? Can you fit on the BMW for track days? By the way, I also own a Mercedes, I’d track it, but it’s in the shop right now.

Well, you said dumb folks, not me.

 

[edyvw]

Although he didn't mention it, he must be burning mad about the very low reliability ranking of his beloved VW. This may actually be the reason for why he started ranting about Toyota to begin with.

Who ranted about anything?
One thing it is clear from CR, you guys need CR to make decision for you.
It makes sense though.

 

[wag123]

One thing it is clear from CR, you guys need CR to make decision for you..

No. You're wrong.
We just see CR's reliability ranking as a confirmation of what the vast majority of us Toyota owners already know.
Toyota owners are Toyota's best advertising. It's a fact!

 

[edyvw]

No. You're wrong.
We just see CR's reliability ranking as a confirmation of what the vast majority of us Toyota owners already know. Toyota owners are Toyota's best advertising. It's a fact!

You have a problem that whatever CR did cannot be called methodology. That is not a fact. It is the opinion of CR readers. That is it. No serious organization would ever consider this a valid survey. It serves CR purpose, and that is it. You can make whatever you want out of it to be warmer around your heart, but the survey is junk. That does not mean anything results-wise. It could be the same outcome, it does not have to be the same outcome. We don't know as, again, methodology (I highly doubt anyone there mentioned that word) is junk. That is it. But hey, there are people who still believe the earth is flat, but that is not fact.

 

[wag123]

You have a problem that whatever CR did cannot be called methodology. That is not a fact. It is the opinion of CR readers. That is it. No serious organization would ever consider this a valid survey. It serves CR purpose, and that is it. You can make whatever you want out of it to be warmer around your heart, but the survey is junk. That does not mean anything results-wise. It could be the same outcome, it does not have to be the same outcome. We don't know as, again, methodology (I highly doubt anyone there mentioned that word) is junk. That is it. But hey, there are people who still believe the earth is flat, but that is not fact.

You missed my point entirely!

 

[TiGeo]

We just see CR's reliability ranking as a confirmation of what the vast majority of us Toyota owners already know.

That Toyota makes some of the most boring and vanilla vehicles on the planet.*

*they are indeed reliable
*they often have dated tech...I mean juat a few years ago my buddy's $45k Tundra SR5 didn't have Carplay....my $20K VW had it in the sane model year (2018)...he ditched it for am F150 because to be nice...it sucked
*HiLux are fantastic and I use them frequently when out of the country
*Had a '92 Toyota 4x4 Pickup...solid
*The GR Corolla is sick
*The GR Supra manual is sick...too bad it's really a BMW

 

[dihi22]

It's statistics! CR only surveys their subscribers. CRs survey is certainly large but it's also gotten smaller & smaller with fewer respondents.

Truth! And i bet most of the readers are chiming in on Crossovers and Passenger cars. The Chevy Silverado's and Dodge Rams P/Us have been way better than that survey indicates. And with f-150s they took a dip with some baddish early ecotechs and wackyfuel injector/ spark ignition codes in those early year models of that new crossover explorer.

For current models in full size p/u i think you're probably even with chances on an f150 vs a 1500 chevy/ram.

 

[dihi22]

I am surprised Audi is #6 and Chevrolet is #20. Note to self: Do not believe everything you read from CR.

lots of chevy malibus, sparks and trax i bet. Clearly CR readers are not the ones buying silverados cause I don't know hardly any silverado owners who would vote chevy down to the bottom of the list.

 

[edyvw]

You missed my point entirely!

No i did not. You are talking about facts. There are no facts there. There cannot be facts base don that methodology.

 

[edyvw]

That Toyota makes some of the most boring and vanilla vehicles on the planet.*

*they are indeed reliable
*they often have dated tech...I mean juat a few years ago my buddy's $45k Tundra SR5 didn't have Carplay....my $20K VW had it in the sane model year (2018)...he ditched it for am F150 because to be nice...it sucked
*HiLux are fantastic and I use them frequently when out of the country
*Had a '92 Toyota 4x4 Pickup...solid
*The GR Corolla is sick
*The GR Supra manual is sick...too bad it's really a BMW

Interestingly, of these two companies, only one of them buys engines from another one

 

[wag123]

No i did not. You are talking about facts. There are no facts there. There cannot be facts base don that methodology.

You STILL missed my point entirely! What I said was... "Toyota owners are Toyota's best advertising. It's a fact!" Toyota owners are Toyota's best advertising. This is a true statement.
Furthermore, you don't have any idea what you are talking about when YOU make the claim that CR's reliability survey is not based on facts and that their methodology is flawed. Do YOU have credible evidence to the contrary? No, you don't. You have never received or taken the survey. You are just a big bag of wind.