I am not sure what I said because the powers to be of this forum have summarily deleted it. Some of you must have seen it though. Pretty ironical that the reply which gets deleted was pointing out how inappropriate the entire topic has been!
Chinese influence in our backyard
- Thread starter fdcg27
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I saw your post before it got deleted.
To dismiss my concerns about growing Chinese reach as xenophobia is naïve at best and ignorant at worst.
Make no mistake, China intends to displace the US as the world's leading power.
We ignore this intent at our peril and xenophobia isn't a factor.
China is playing the long game, strategic rather than tactical.
The West needs to develop its own collective strategy for opposing this threat.
Russia is no more than a comedic sideshow in comparison.
To dismiss my concerns about growing Chinese reach as xenophobia is naïve at best and ignorant at worst.
Make no mistake, China intends to displace the US as the world's leading power.
We ignore this intent at our peril and xenophobia isn't a factor.
China is playing the long game, strategic rather than tactical.
The West needs to develop its own collective strategy for opposing this threat.
Russia is no more than a comedic sideshow in comparison.
Originally Posted by Vikas
I am not sure what I said because the powers to be of this forum have summarily deleted it. Some of you must have seen it though. Pretty ironical that the reply which gets deleted was pointing out how inappropriate the entire topic has been!
Yeah, I don't know what I said either. Just mentioned some historical events and it got deleted. Not even politics, that's just basic history that's not up for debate. It happened.
I am not sure what I said because the powers to be of this forum have summarily deleted it. Some of you must have seen it though. Pretty ironical that the reply which gets deleted was pointing out how inappropriate the entire topic has been!
Yeah, I don't know what I said either. Just mentioned some historical events and it got deleted. Not even politics, that's just basic history that's not up for debate. It happened.
Originally Posted by LoneRanger
https://www.forbes.com/sites/panosm...-not-trade-war-is-chinas-biggest-problem
Well, if this article is right, China's "unofficial" debt to GDP ratio may be as high as 300%. That tends to tame worries of China being enough of an economic juggernaut to globally project military force in the same manner as the USA......
Yes it does. More than most people realize. And not only that, but one has to question the logistical capabilities of many of these foreign militaries like China and North Korea. It's one thing to have a large army equipped with a bunch of soldiers and impressive hardware. It's quite another to be able to move, feed, and resupply that same force effectively all over the globe.
We have all seen the dog and pony show videos of North Korea marching thousands of their soldiers around that huge public square. All dressed in their nice fancy, clean and pressed uniforms. All high stepping, and saluting Kim. As they march by with all of the tanks and missile launchers rolling. But how effectively could they answer a threat and move all of those men and heavy equipment 2,000 miles into a battle? Not to mention being able to feed and resupply them with ammunition and additional weapons when they get there.
I doubt they are too concerned about medical care for their troops wounded in battle. They see people as their biggest renewable resource. It's the same with China. They love to flash and boast about their hardware as well. But when you look at our military's ability to move and supply it's forces all over the globe, in hours if need be, it's second to none. And once wars are started, they are seldom, if ever won in 15 minutes by the first guys who hit the ground running.
And as far as their nuclear capabilities, they are no more insane enough to press all of their buttons, than we are ours. That's the equivalent of walking up to Mike Tyson in a bar, and hitting him first when he's not looking. You might draw blood if you're lucky. But it's not going to end well for you.
I highly doubt "Rocket Man", or China for that matter, can even come close to matching this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_Airlift_Command
https://www.forbes.com/sites/panosm...-not-trade-war-is-chinas-biggest-problem
Well, if this article is right, China's "unofficial" debt to GDP ratio may be as high as 300%. That tends to tame worries of China being enough of an economic juggernaut to globally project military force in the same manner as the USA......
Yes it does. More than most people realize. And not only that, but one has to question the logistical capabilities of many of these foreign militaries like China and North Korea. It's one thing to have a large army equipped with a bunch of soldiers and impressive hardware. It's quite another to be able to move, feed, and resupply that same force effectively all over the globe.
We have all seen the dog and pony show videos of North Korea marching thousands of their soldiers around that huge public square. All dressed in their nice fancy, clean and pressed uniforms. All high stepping, and saluting Kim. As they march by with all of the tanks and missile launchers rolling. But how effectively could they answer a threat and move all of those men and heavy equipment 2,000 miles into a battle? Not to mention being able to feed and resupply them with ammunition and additional weapons when they get there.
I doubt they are too concerned about medical care for their troops wounded in battle. They see people as their biggest renewable resource. It's the same with China. They love to flash and boast about their hardware as well. But when you look at our military's ability to move and supply it's forces all over the globe, in hours if need be, it's second to none. And once wars are started, they are seldom, if ever won in 15 minutes by the first guys who hit the ground running.
And as far as their nuclear capabilities, they are no more insane enough to press all of their buttons, than we are ours. That's the equivalent of walking up to Mike Tyson in a bar, and hitting him first when he's not looking. You might draw blood if you're lucky. But it's not going to end well for you.
I highly doubt "Rocket Man", or China for that matter, can even come close to matching this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_Airlift_Command
Originally Posted by billt460
Originally Posted by LoneRanger
https://www.forbes.com/sites/panosm...-not-trade-war-is-chinas-biggest-problem
Well, if this article is right, China's "unofficial" debt to GDP ratio may be as high as 300%. That tends to tame worries of China being enough of an economic juggernaut to globally project military force in the same manner as the USA......
Yes it does. More than most people realize. And not only that, but one has to question the logistical capabilities of many of these foreign militaries like China and North Korea. It's one thing to have a large army equipped with a bunch of soldiers and impressive hardware. It's quite another to be able to move, feed, and resupply that same force effectively all over the globe.
We have all seen the dog and pony show videos of North Korea marching thousands of their soldiers around that huge public square. All dressed in their nice fancy, clean and pressed uniforms. All high stepping, and saluting Kim. As they march by with all of the tanks and missile launchers rolling. But how effectively could they answer a threat and move all of those men and heavy equipment 2,000 miles into a battle? Not to mention being able to feed and resupply them with ammunition and additional weapons when they get there.
I doubt they are too concerned about medical care for their troops wounded in battle. They see people as their biggest renewable resource. It's the same with China. They love to flash and boast about their hardware as well. But when you look at our military's ability to move and supply it's forces all over the globe, in hours if need be, it's second to none. And once wars are started, they are seldom, if ever won in 15 minutes by the first guys who hit the ground running.
And as far as their nuclear capabilities, they are no more insane enough to press all of their buttons, than we are ours. That's the equivalent of walking up to Mike Tyson in a bar, and hitting him first when he's not looking. You might draw blood if you're lucky. But it's not going to end well for you.
I highly doubt "Rocket Man", or China for that matter, can even come close to matching this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_Airlift_Command
You are thinking like an imperialist. The armies you mentioned are for defensive purposes and not for moving them 2,000 miles to invade some defenseless country.
Originally Posted by LoneRanger
https://www.forbes.com/sites/panosm...-not-trade-war-is-chinas-biggest-problem
Well, if this article is right, China's "unofficial" debt to GDP ratio may be as high as 300%. That tends to tame worries of China being enough of an economic juggernaut to globally project military force in the same manner as the USA......
Yes it does. More than most people realize. And not only that, but one has to question the logistical capabilities of many of these foreign militaries like China and North Korea. It's one thing to have a large army equipped with a bunch of soldiers and impressive hardware. It's quite another to be able to move, feed, and resupply that same force effectively all over the globe.
We have all seen the dog and pony show videos of North Korea marching thousands of their soldiers around that huge public square. All dressed in their nice fancy, clean and pressed uniforms. All high stepping, and saluting Kim. As they march by with all of the tanks and missile launchers rolling. But how effectively could they answer a threat and move all of those men and heavy equipment 2,000 miles into a battle? Not to mention being able to feed and resupply them with ammunition and additional weapons when they get there.
I doubt they are too concerned about medical care for their troops wounded in battle. They see people as their biggest renewable resource. It's the same with China. They love to flash and boast about their hardware as well. But when you look at our military's ability to move and supply it's forces all over the globe, in hours if need be, it's second to none. And once wars are started, they are seldom, if ever won in 15 minutes by the first guys who hit the ground running.
And as far as their nuclear capabilities, they are no more insane enough to press all of their buttons, than we are ours. That's the equivalent of walking up to Mike Tyson in a bar, and hitting him first when he's not looking. You might draw blood if you're lucky. But it's not going to end well for you.
I highly doubt "Rocket Man", or China for that matter, can even come close to matching this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_Airlift_Command
You are thinking like an imperialist. The armies you mentioned are for defensive purposes and not for moving them 2,000 miles to invade some defenseless country.
Originally Posted by Alfred_B
You are thinking like an imperialist. The armies you mentioned are for defensive purposes and not for moving them 2,000 miles to invade some defenseless country.
Forget invasion, and look at defense only. I doubt they could move and support them within the borders of their own nation for any length of time. Especially China. China stretches for about 3,250 miles from east to west, and 3,400 miles from north to south. And much of it is rugged terrain. They have enough difficulty feeding the bulk of their population as it is. Let alone a large army on the move.
You are thinking like an imperialist. The armies you mentioned are for defensive purposes and not for moving them 2,000 miles to invade some defenseless country.
Forget invasion, and look at defense only. I doubt they could move and support them within the borders of their own nation for any length of time. Especially China. China stretches for about 3,250 miles from east to west, and 3,400 miles from north to south. And much of it is rugged terrain. They have enough difficulty feeding the bulk of their population as it is. Let alone a large army on the move.
In China's case, they invaded and subjugated the sovereign nation of Tibet on their border pretty successfully. And they still occupy it. They also shipped a lot of troops to another border to fight in Korea. Even though they froze or starved close to a million of their own soldiers by transporting them in winter in open boxcars with little logistic support, it wasn't a problem for the Chinese government - there were always more men where those came from.
They also invaded Vietnam, but that didn't go as well. That wasn't a logistic problem, the Vietnamese were just much better fighters.
They also invaded Vietnam, but that didn't go as well. That wasn't a logistic problem, the Vietnamese were just much better fighters.
Originally Posted by Alfred_B
Originally Posted by billt460
Originally Posted by LoneRanger
https://www.forbes.com/sites/panosm...-not-trade-war-is-chinas-biggest-problem
Well, if this article is right, China's "unofficial" debt to GDP ratio may be as high as 300%. That tends to tame worries of China being enough of an economic juggernaut to globally project military force in the same manner as the USA......
Yes it does. More than most people realize. And not only that, but one has to question the logistical capabilities of many of these foreign militaries like China and North Korea. It's one thing to have a large army equipped with a bunch of soldiers and impressive hardware. It's quite another to be able to move, feed, and resupply that same force effectively all over the globe.
We have all seen the dog and pony show videos of North Korea marching thousands of their soldiers around that huge public square. All dressed in their nice fancy, clean and pressed uniforms. All high stepping, and saluting Kim. As they march by with all of the tanks and missile launchers rolling. But how effectively could they answer a threat and move all of those men and heavy equipment 2,000 miles into a battle? Not to mention being able to feed and resupply them with ammunition and additional weapons when they get there.
I doubt they are too concerned about medical care for their troops wounded in battle. They see people as their biggest renewable resource. It's the same with China. They love to flash and boast about their hardware as well. But when you look at our military's ability to move and supply it's forces all over the globe, in hours if need be, it's second to none. And once wars are started, they are seldom, if ever won in 15 minutes by the first guys who hit the ground running.
And as far as their nuclear capabilities, they are no more insane enough to press all of their buttons, than we are ours. That's the equivalent of walking up to Mike Tyson in a bar, and hitting him first when he's not looking. You might draw blood if you're lucky. But it's not going to end well for you.
I highly doubt "Rocket Man", or China for that matter, can even come close to matching this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_Airlift_Command
You are thinking like an imperialist. The armies you mentioned are for defensive purposes and not for moving them 2,000 miles to invade some defenseless country.
China is also thinking like an imperialist and they face no logistical challenges with their huge cargo fleet.
China is building fake islands and claiming them as territory throughout the South China Sea, threatening the Philippines, Vietnam and Indonesia.
China intends to extend its influence and control as far as it can manage to do, make no mistake about it.
Only a robust US naval presence can limit this.
It would be a shame to allow the Chinese to gain a toehold in the Caribbean.
We should act now before it's too late.
Originally Posted by billt460
Originally Posted by LoneRanger
https://www.forbes.com/sites/panosm...-not-trade-war-is-chinas-biggest-problem
Well, if this article is right, China's "unofficial" debt to GDP ratio may be as high as 300%. That tends to tame worries of China being enough of an economic juggernaut to globally project military force in the same manner as the USA......
Yes it does. More than most people realize. And not only that, but one has to question the logistical capabilities of many of these foreign militaries like China and North Korea. It's one thing to have a large army equipped with a bunch of soldiers and impressive hardware. It's quite another to be able to move, feed, and resupply that same force effectively all over the globe.
We have all seen the dog and pony show videos of North Korea marching thousands of their soldiers around that huge public square. All dressed in their nice fancy, clean and pressed uniforms. All high stepping, and saluting Kim. As they march by with all of the tanks and missile launchers rolling. But how effectively could they answer a threat and move all of those men and heavy equipment 2,000 miles into a battle? Not to mention being able to feed and resupply them with ammunition and additional weapons when they get there.
I doubt they are too concerned about medical care for their troops wounded in battle. They see people as their biggest renewable resource. It's the same with China. They love to flash and boast about their hardware as well. But when you look at our military's ability to move and supply it's forces all over the globe, in hours if need be, it's second to none. And once wars are started, they are seldom, if ever won in 15 minutes by the first guys who hit the ground running.
And as far as their nuclear capabilities, they are no more insane enough to press all of their buttons, than we are ours. That's the equivalent of walking up to Mike Tyson in a bar, and hitting him first when he's not looking. You might draw blood if you're lucky. But it's not going to end well for you.
I highly doubt "Rocket Man", or China for that matter, can even come close to matching this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_Airlift_Command
You are thinking like an imperialist. The armies you mentioned are for defensive purposes and not for moving them 2,000 miles to invade some defenseless country.
China is also thinking like an imperialist and they face no logistical challenges with their huge cargo fleet.
China is building fake islands and claiming them as territory throughout the South China Sea, threatening the Philippines, Vietnam and Indonesia.
China intends to extend its influence and control as far as it can manage to do, make no mistake about it.
Only a robust US naval presence can limit this.
It would be a shame to allow the Chinese to gain a toehold in the Caribbean.
We should act now before it's too late.
Originally Posted by fdcg27
China is also thinking like an imperialist and they face no logistical challenges with their huge cargo fleet.
China is building fake islands and claiming them as territory throughout the South China Sea, threatening the Philippines, Vietnam and Indonesia.
China intends to extend its influence and control as far as it can manage to do, make no mistake about it.
Only a robust US naval presence can limit this.
It would be a shame to allow the Chinese to gain a toehold in the Caribbean.
We should act now before it's too late.
I agree with everything you said. But I don't think China is as much of a military threat to us, as many make them out to be. Or Russia for that matter.... Putin and all. And they know it. I'm old enough to remember the Cuban Missile Crisis. Having, "Duck And Cover" drills in 3rd grade. People stocking their basements with canned goods. Digging holes to build lead lined fallout shelters in their backyards. Because everyone thought both Castro and Khrushchev were going to blow all of us to kingdom come.
When push came to shove they backed down. And looking back they were both a lot tougher, and had more backbone on their worst days, than Xi Jinping could ever hope to have on his best. China is doing what they are doing, because they know they can get away with it. At least for now. Because as of yet, they have gone unchallenged militarily.
Remember, they started this build up under the Obama Administration. When he was bicycling around the White House in his helmet and short pants. In 1962 Kennedy put up a U.S. Naval blockade. And as a result Khrushchev backed down, took all of his missiles and went home.
There is a big difference between acting tough, and being tough. As Mike Tyson said, "Everyone has a plan.... Until they get hit". China thus far has never been challenged by another super power from a military standpoint. And if they are, I highly doubt they'll be so willing to throw the first punch. It's just not worth the beating they would take. And deep down, they know it....... Just like Khrushchev did.
China is also thinking like an imperialist and they face no logistical challenges with their huge cargo fleet.
China is building fake islands and claiming them as territory throughout the South China Sea, threatening the Philippines, Vietnam and Indonesia.
China intends to extend its influence and control as far as it can manage to do, make no mistake about it.
Only a robust US naval presence can limit this.
It would be a shame to allow the Chinese to gain a toehold in the Caribbean.
We should act now before it's too late.
I agree with everything you said. But I don't think China is as much of a military threat to us, as many make them out to be. Or Russia for that matter.... Putin and all. And they know it. I'm old enough to remember the Cuban Missile Crisis. Having, "Duck And Cover" drills in 3rd grade. People stocking their basements with canned goods. Digging holes to build lead lined fallout shelters in their backyards. Because everyone thought both Castro and Khrushchev were going to blow all of us to kingdom come.
When push came to shove they backed down. And looking back they were both a lot tougher, and had more backbone on their worst days, than Xi Jinping could ever hope to have on his best. China is doing what they are doing, because they know they can get away with it. At least for now. Because as of yet, they have gone unchallenged militarily.
Remember, they started this build up under the Obama Administration. When he was bicycling around the White House in his helmet and short pants. In 1962 Kennedy put up a U.S. Naval blockade. And as a result Khrushchev backed down, took all of his missiles and went home.
There is a big difference between acting tough, and being tough. As Mike Tyson said, "Everyone has a plan.... Until they get hit". China thus far has never been challenged by another super power from a military standpoint. And if they are, I highly doubt they'll be so willing to throw the first punch. It's just not worth the beating they would take. And deep down, they know it....... Just like Khrushchev did.
Agreed.
In WW2 Imperialist Japan marched through/over China. The US and Allies came to their rescue.
The US is China's biggest trading partner they would be nuts not to mention suicidal to attack them.
In WW2 Imperialist Japan marched through/over China. The US and Allies came to their rescue.
The US is China's biggest trading partner they would be nuts not to mention suicidal to attack them.
Originally Posted by cjcride
Agreed.
In WW2 Imperialist Japan marched through/over China. The US and Allies came to their rescue.
The US is China's biggest trading partner they would be nuts not to mention suicidal to attack them.
Additionally, because China was a great ally during WW-II. It's rather unfortunate that China was not adequately recognized after the war. I believe Nixon did so by recognizing China with most favored nation trading status.
I deal with the Chinese elite from time to time in my aviation career. I find no malice or ill will. Quite unlike the our dealings with Axis powers in the aviation world. Where resentment still lingers.
On a personal note, I want to see my Chinese friends succeed in their quest to open up the skies in China and fly General Aviation aircraft freely.
Agreed.
In WW2 Imperialist Japan marched through/over China. The US and Allies came to their rescue.
The US is China's biggest trading partner they would be nuts not to mention suicidal to attack them.
Additionally, because China was a great ally during WW-II. It's rather unfortunate that China was not adequately recognized after the war. I believe Nixon did so by recognizing China with most favored nation trading status.
I deal with the Chinese elite from time to time in my aviation career. I find no malice or ill will. Quite unlike the our dealings with Axis powers in the aviation world. Where resentment still lingers.
On a personal note, I want to see my Chinese friends succeed in their quest to open up the skies in China and fly General Aviation aircraft freely.
Last edited:
"I deal with the Chinese elite from time to time in my aviation career. I find no malice or ill will. Quite unlike the our dealings with Axis powers in the aviation world. Where resentment still lingers."
Which dealings and which countries are you referring to? Japan has been a major part of the development and production of recent Boeing airplanes, namely the 787 Dreamliner series and the new 777-X series upcoming. I've never heard of any resentment there.
Which dealings and which countries are you referring to? Japan has been a major part of the development and production of recent Boeing airplanes, namely the 787 Dreamliner series and the new 777-X series upcoming. I've never heard of any resentment there.
Originally Posted by Cujet
Originally Posted by cjcride
Agreed.
In WW2 Imperialist Japan marched through/over China. The US and Allies came to their rescue.
The US is China's biggest trading partner they would be nuts not to mention suicidal to attack them.
Additionally, because China was a great ally during WW-II. It's rather unfortunate that China was not adequately recognized after the war. I believe Nixon did so by recognizing China with most favored nation trading status.
I deal with the Chinese elite from time to time in my aviation career. I find no malice or ill will. Quite unlike the our dealings with Axis powers in the aviation world. Where resentment still lingers.
On a personal note, I want to see my Chinese friends succeed in their quest to open up the skies in China and fly General Aviation aircraft freely.
That China after the war actually ended up in Taiwan. The Republic of China government lost to the Communists and they fled to Taiwan which is why the US still recognizes them.
Originally Posted by cjcride
Agreed.
In WW2 Imperialist Japan marched through/over China. The US and Allies came to their rescue.
The US is China's biggest trading partner they would be nuts not to mention suicidal to attack them.
Additionally, because China was a great ally during WW-II. It's rather unfortunate that China was not adequately recognized after the war. I believe Nixon did so by recognizing China with most favored nation trading status.
I deal with the Chinese elite from time to time in my aviation career. I find no malice or ill will. Quite unlike the our dealings with Axis powers in the aviation world. Where resentment still lingers.
On a personal note, I want to see my Chinese friends succeed in their quest to open up the skies in China and fly General Aviation aircraft freely.
That China after the war actually ended up in Taiwan. The Republic of China government lost to the Communists and they fled to Taiwan which is why the US still recognizes them.
Originally Posted by Wolf359
That China after the war actually ended up in Taiwan. The Republic of China government lost to the Communists and they fled to Taiwan which is why the US still recognizes them.
The US stopped recognizing the ROC government January 1, 1979 at the same time they gave official recognition to the PRC government. US relations with Taiwan are unofficial in nature but governed by the Taiwan Relations Act. For years the "American Institute in Taiwan" has served as the de facto diplomatic mission of the US in Taiwan.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Institute_in_Taiwan
That China after the war actually ended up in Taiwan. The Republic of China government lost to the Communists and they fled to Taiwan which is why the US still recognizes them.
The US stopped recognizing the ROC government January 1, 1979 at the same time they gave official recognition to the PRC government. US relations with Taiwan are unofficial in nature but governed by the Taiwan Relations Act. For years the "American Institute in Taiwan" has served as the de facto diplomatic mission of the US in Taiwan.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Institute_in_Taiwan
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