Castrol Titanium Technology?

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Originally Posted By: CELICA_XX
Originally Posted By: RAINEY
Titanium is just a marketing buzz word that has no real world mechanical protection benefits.


That's what I always thought, but people are acting like they pour in titanium shavings!

Does Pennzoil put GOLD in their synthetic blend products?

Do they put PLATINUM in their full synthetic line?

But Castrol's wording is different. It says something to the effect of "Now with Titanium" Pennzoil doesnt say "with Gold or Platinum". When a company says with something it is assumed that whatever is after "with" is whats inside the oil. Similar to Royal Purple saying "with Synerlec" which means there is Synerlec in the oil.
 
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Originally Posted By: deven

But Castrol's wording is different. It says something to the effect of "Now with Titanium" Pennzoil doesnt say "with Gold or Platinum". When a company says with something it is assumed that whatever is after "with" is whats inside the oil.

And titanium is inside Castrol's oil, as evidenced by oil analysis. The question is, what does it actually do, if anything?
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
And titanium is inside Castrol's oil, as evidenced by oil analysis. The question is, what does it actually do, if anything?


How about this: "Titanium is one candidate replacement. Mechanical tests of an organic titanium compound at Afton demonstrated that it provided superior wear resistance when added to a fully formulated engine oil, suggesting that oil chemists could use less ZDDP." Source: http://www.science20.com/news_releases/titanium_a_greener_antiwear_additive_for_engine_oil

Ed
 
Good find, Ed. Thanks.

So, you reduce ZDDP in order to make the oil more CAT friendly. But then you have to make up for it somehow if you still want to have good anti-wear properties, so you add a pinch of titanium.
 
Originally Posted By: deven
Originally Posted By: CELICA_XX
Originally Posted By: RAINEY
Titanium is just a marketing buzz word that has no real world mechanical protection benefits.


That's what I always thought, but people are acting like they pour in titanium shavings!

Does Pennzoil put GOLD in their synthetic blend products?

Do they put PLATINUM in their full synthetic line?

But Castrol's wording is different. It says something to the effect of "Now with Titanium" Pennzoil doesnt say "with Gold or Platinum". When a company says with something it is assumed that whatever is after "with" is whats inside the oil. Similar to Royal Purple saying "with Synerlec" which means there is Synerlec in the oil.


Correct. The Gold and Platinum is just the product name not having anything to do with technology or a special additive. Synerlec is the name given to RP created additive. It is a totally made up name not having anything to be confused with other products on the market. The work titanium gets people excited and it sounds exotic and special. I think of golf clubs.
 
This has been posted before, but here is a link to an article about Ti in ConocoPhillips oils.

Titanium_in_ConocoPhillips_oils

Unlike, ZDDP which is the most common AW additive used in engine oils; however, it does not contain phosphorus which is a poison to catalytic converters.

Based on data presented at the meeting, ConocoPhillips says there are several clear advantages to the new titanium additive, including:

Enhanced wear control in Cummins ISB test (15% reduction in Cam lobe wear, 46% reduction in Crosshead wear
Reduced cam lobe wear in Sequence IVA test (API SM), 45% reduction in intake lobe wear
HTCBT (D-6594) test results in equal or less corrosion with titanium containing oil showing no harm to copper or lead components
Reduced bearing weight loss in Sequence VIII test show improved bearing protection, 9% reduction in bearing weight loss
.
.
.
the advantage of the titanium additive is reduced engine wear, equivalent or reduced bearing corrosion, improved oxidation stability, and no impact on DPFs or exhaust catalysts.

So it does a similar job to ZDDP, but it's not simply TiDDP, as there is no Phos present.

And this PQIA analysis of Kendall oil shows about 100ppm Ti.

PQIA_Kendall5W30_SemiSyn
 
All oil companies use marketing. Some more so than others. Mobil is by far the most professional and less gimmicky of them all.

Regarding Ti, it’s real and it works. Castrol’s Ti is their own in-house version and not the Afton one, which I assume Kendall is using. All companies have within their arsenal different ways of formulating oils to meet/exceed specifications. There are many ways to formulate a good oil.

The Ti Castrol is using is a very good anti wear additive, one of many that can be used. Castrol went with their own Ti. Other companies will use other additives. It’s the end product and specifications met that matter most. But the Ti is real and is a great new addition to the anti wear additives that are needed due to the reduction in ZDP.
 
Ive been using kendall gt1 full synthetic with titanium for several years. I first tried it on a whim for a hemi that had the hemi tick....it almost totally eliminated the ticking. So, i dont know if it was the titanium or just a good quality oil, but i have stayed with it. My last f150 had 155,000 miles and never had an issue. My current ram and jeep grand cherokee both run perfectly fine. I buy it at psc online for less that $5 a quart....works for me.
 
I think one thing that should be noted is that the current formulation of Castrol Edge with Titanium (black bottle) has so little Titanium that it's hard to believe its anything but a marketing gimmick. Its as if the formulators decided to go with a Zinc/Moly/Boron additive package, but the marketers didn't want to give up the "Liquid Titanium" marketing language.

My last sample of 5w20 Edge black bottle came back with 3 ppm of titanium, but 165 PPM of boron. It also had basically zero magnesium, so they've apparently abandoned their combination magnesium/calcium detergent package.

This is not to make any relative assessments of the formulations, the new one may very well be substantially superior, it's just no longer plausibly "titanium".
 
Originally Posted By: Ed_Flecko
"Titanium is one candidate replacement. Mechanical tests of an organic titanium compound at Afton demonstrated that it provided superior wear resistance when added to a fully formulated engine oil, suggesting that oil chemists could use less ZDDP." Source: http://www.science20.com/news_releases/titanium_a_greener_antiwear_additive_for_engine_oil

Thank you. I just spent 15 minutes searching, and then found your answer. Titanium is the most-expensive metal... that's probably why Castrol limits it to 3 ppm.

I wonder if Titanium will end-up like Teflon... an additive claimed to protect engines, but actually does little.
25.gif
 
Originally Posted By: veryHeavy
Titanium is the most-expensive metal... that's probably why Castrol limits it to 3 ppm.


Not even close. Plenty of metals are more costly than titanium. And one UOA showing 3 ppm of Ti is of very limited value and certainly shouldn't be used as a blanket for all products from that supplier.
 
It'll vary. Already we see differences; 7 ppm is more than double 3 ppm. There are many more products with Ti in.
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: KingCake
Marketing hype. Blackstone says it doesn't do anything.


Blackstone still get J300 wrong...

It's not that they get J300 wrong. They just don't go by SAE J300. They have their own "expected" viscosity ranges for various used oil grades that they go by.


Right. It is normal for an oil to drift its viscosity out of new-oil grade some with no real consequences. The J300 is for new oil with that view. Engine designers also know their engines must be able to withstand some viscosity change. Not too much anyway.

As for Titanium in oil, just see http://www.science20.com/news_releases/titanium_a_greener_antiwear_additive_for_engine_oil

Castrol Edge uses very little Titanium, just enough to get a marketing claim out of it, very low levels.
Kendal GT-1 uses much more (10 times) the Ti as Castrol does.

Probably don't really need Ti with all the choices for anti-wear, anti-friction approaches available anyway, and that's why many oils don't bother with Ti.
 
Originally Posted By: weasley
Plenty of metals are more costly than titanium.

Yes my mistake. I was thinking of *platinum* which is the most-costly metal.
 
Originally Posted By: veryHeavy
Originally Posted By: weasley
Plenty of metals are more costly than titanium.

Yes my mistake. I was thinking of *platinum* which is the most-costly metal.


Actually gold is more expensive than platinum right now.
 
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Sometimes required purity has a lot to do with price as well. I remember one of my colleagues buying some lanthanide sputtering targets that were unbelievably expensive on a per-gram basis.
 
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